Duotone categorizes wave sails by the location of the draft point. So what am I looking for in a good freeride wave sail? Some argue that a forward high up draft is favourable www.windsurf.co.uk/duotone-super-session-5-9m-2020-test-review/ On the other hand it seems the fringe, tricera and other light and soft sails with few battens are popular but duotone say they have their draft more centered then forward. Im confused :)
Lots theory talk, but not much difference.
Humans can adapt.
Duotone used to be North, so forward locked drafts.
I still mix my quivers for wave, freeride, slalom, and freeride foil.
Norths, Duo, Gaastra, Sailworks, Hot, NP, NW, makes some differences, but not much.
Also, since foiling loads sails lighter, you might consider much lower outhaul tensions.
When I buy new sails I will keep them for a long time so I want to make this right. I have had my current sails for 8 years. I was hoping that by now there was a censensus about what qualities in a sail is best??. In this case Im talking about cruizy freeride or wave foiling 4.2 to 5.4 sizes. I have the supercruizer.
Here are my thoughts:
An aft draft point leads to back hand pressure wich translates into back foot pressure. This is probably good for taking of but up in speed you realy want the opposite.
A high draft point increase the forward torque wich is high as it is in a windfoil configuration.
So what we want is a draft point low in the front or what??? Or is it like you say LeeD, it does not matter that much?
Hi Djungelman
LeeD did speak some sense above,,
Don't 'over read' into the hype to much. The information can be a bit 'confusing' as you mentioned, for the every day normal sailors.
Also note the info is more for normal wave sailing and not foiling
The Dutone info is however pretty spot on with their guide. But I would say just this just apply for really good sailors, that can pick up the small differences and take advantage of it. If you turn things around then good sailors can make anything work, from any brand - with any draft position in the sails. ( flame suit on)
For what you want to do ( cruizy wave / freeride foiling, with 4.2-5.4, on a liftly playful foil)
Then any wave sail (old as new) will work. 3 /4 or 5 batten
If your aim is to use as small sail as possible, then look towards 3 - 4 batten sails with good leach tension.
We don't run less outhaul, but instead less downhaul ( to increase the leach tension to generate more power)
If you are after more stability then the 5 batten wave or freeride is more suited.
Don't be to afraid of the draft more back in the sails, as for foiling you can use this as an advantage. Using smaller sails and getting going earlier.
For normal windsurfing, then too much back hand pressure is bad for sure, and translate into the added back foot pressure and unbalanced stance, like you mentioned.
Are you planning to use the sails for normal wave sailing as well? and also what foil board are you using?
All the main brands are pretty good those days. What brands are you leaning towards?
Not sure if the above made it more confusing for you or less? :)
Cheers
Jesper
The Aerotech Freespeed sails from 5.8 to 9.0 have worked great for me for freeride fining and foiling, but for foiling I use minimal downhaul (no wrinkle in the sail) and adjust outhaul for the conditions, more outhaul for the higher wind range of a sail. They are 100% x-grid.
Great support too!
The duotone blurb is interesting. I like their informative approach to their website - also on mast compatibility for example. I am learning flat water forwards (off ankle high random chop - not easy!). I now have no problem getting decent height (and rotation) using blades or super sessions, but super heros are a disaster for me - just cant get decent release even with immense effort and the rotation feels more forced (maybe a consequence of the failure to release). I tried and tried and tried - no release, horrible catapult every time. The rental place we go to every year has all 3 so i often sail them back to back - and need to take whatever is left the in the rack when its busy. So all that fits with the duotone write up
Im sure if my skills were better i could cope with either - but not at my level.
Having said all that, for foiling i guess it makes no real difference- i sometimes use a 20year old freeride sail and its just fine for foiling, its more about how you rig them as described above.
Select to expand quoteDjungelman said..
When I buy new sails I will keep them for a long time so I want to make this right. I have had my current sails for 8 years. I was hoping that by now there was a censensus about what qualities in a sail is best??. In this case Im talking about cruizy freeride or wave foiling 4.2 to 5.4 sizes. I have the supercruizer.
Here are my thoughts:
An aft draft point leads to back hand pressure wich translates into back foot pressure. This is probably good for taking of but up in speed you realy want the opposite.
A high draft point increase the forward torque wich is high as it is in a windfoil configuration.
So what we want is a draft point low in the front or what??? Or is it like you say LeeD, it does not matter that much?
I feel you're spot on with your estimation, although there's one thing thats more important than draft positioning.
Draft stability!! As an example, freestyle sails are the most forward powered draft sails out there, but they have very soft profiles, they seem nice for foiling as their draft positioning stabilises the foil (or at least in part helps with controling lifting behavior), but overpower quickly. If you're sailing in gusty conditions or approaching higher speeds the freestyle sails will become very unstable and backhand heavy, even though they are forward draft sails. Draft positioning only matters really with fixed positioning of the hands on the boom and unhooked riding, like in cutback on a waveboard where you have your hands close to the front of the boom and yank the board round off the backhand power. In this scenario a draft back sail would perform better.
In practice for foiling however you setup your harnesslines for the draft position, or grab the boom unhooked with your hands equally spaced around the draft, so power is equal across your hands anyway! However, this only applies as long as the draft remains in that same position! As soon as draft starts shifting you'll be uncomfortable, with more power on one hand than the other (most often backhand). Thats why I advocate draft stability in favor of draft positioning.
In the end, this is also why I favor a little more downhaul tension than average for foiling (when approppriate for the conditions), combined with a relatively thight outhaul. It will be a little harder to get up, but my technique is on point, and in practice it really only takes a little more effort, but not really costs me in the raw usable windrange. However, what I get out of higher downhaul tension and outhaul tension is great draft stability in gusts, allowing me to stay stable on the foil in gusty conditions with speeds over 30knots and having the sail not become backhand heavy or gusts impacting my rideheight. As an added bonus I get higher top-end/ average speeds in light winds, therefore bringing an increased glide through lulls.
I currently use S2Maui Dragon's (4-batten wave) for foiling. They're relatively draft back, but the most draft stable wavesails I've ever used (including avanti, north, duotone, pryde). They give me huge range while foiling, I (92Kg) can comfortably use my 4.9 from 10-13 knot days upto really gusty 20-35 knot days with the same foil and board (105L F-One Rocketwind + Levo Carbon 900cm2), although often I'll size down a little earlier.
