Hello
I've studied different ways to have a short board around 6-7' for windfoiling, and I'd like to gather different opinions.
1)Small sups in which you can install doble usbox tracks and mast track, or buy directly the multipurpose sups (less suitable option)
2)Windfoiling dedicated boards such as the slingshots wizzard and levitator, JP freefoil, etc, with the foil box at the rear of the board. However Goya has released their Air bolt with us box tracks not so close to the tail. RRD's Pocket rockes has deep tuttle at the rear and us box advanced.
3)Supfoil and wingfoil boards which has a mast track like the Fanatc Sky sup 6'11 or other big supfoil boards you could add a mast track to
Some questions:
I have a traditional 8'2" windsurfing board for windfoiling. Would I gain so many advantages with a 6'-7' windfoil board?
I've been told by an important shaper that windfoiling needs as much distance as possible between the foil position and the sail for stability. He doesn't like the third option because of this. Is the third option only for advanced sailors?
Would be easier to use a surf foil (short fuselage) for windfoiling in the third option because of the advanced position of the tracks?
It seems the third option (supfoil) is focused in strapless windfoiling and the second one is focused in footstraps. Why?
Would there be clear differences among the options in terms of early flying, stability, easy uphauling, maneouvrability , etc.
If you mix different manufacturers of boards and foils which option gives you more chances to match? The double us box for any option?
Thanks.
Tracks are the most universal as there are different types of tuttle boxes and some don't fit.
This answers are in relation to windfoiling, not wingfoiling
Re the shaper who said a longer distance between foilmast and sail mast being important for stability, this is true but stability has its disadvantages as well.
A further distance between mast foot and foil mast makes the board more stable esp to left and right turning. As you close that distance the board becomes more maneuverable or sensitive to mast foot inputs. Gybing is easier with a longer distance.
One advantage of a shorter sail mast to foil mast distance is that your shifting of weight (eg from back foot to front foot) has greater influence over the foil's lift. I am not exactly sure of the physics but with a shorter distance (eg slingshot freestyle) I can just weight my front foot to control an overlifting foil. On boards with a longer distance eg wizard or levitator I find I have to shift my back foot forward to control an overlifting foil. Generally as the sail mast comes back towards the foil mast, the foot straps need to go forwards to keep everything balanced so maybe this gives the front foot more leverage over the foil if needed?
I dabbled with short fuselages. Nearly impossible to gybe.
So many variables. As a WWF style Foiler I can tell you that on my JP 7' Foil Sup I ride it w the foil track 1/4 back from front of track. As for the sail, it's a mast insert, so only one position. I use a windsurf fuselage as it provide more stability for jibing and upwind ability. In this setup, front foot is just behind mast and back foot is forward of rear strap inserts. Of course the idea is to use chop and wave energy on a large foil to glide vs wind energy. Is it unstable? Only if you pump like you would on a regular windfoil board. Instead it likes an upright stance and micro pumps.
The new Goya looked like it could be my next WWF style board but no pads up where my front foot would be. Same issue w the new JP Freestyle foil board as well as a lack of bevel.
Specifically you asked about length. Yes, it makes a difference. All length and weight forward of the mast foot lends to the nose HUNTiNG in whatever direction you lean. I once rode a friends custom 140 liter 8' Sup/wing foil board. If I leaned to much port or starboard I couldn't recover and bring it back online. It was comical.
But you have to weigh length w function (Uphauling, tacking, tracking).
Right now my dream board would be the new Quatro Drifter Wing Board in a 6'6"-6'8" with a short mast track. Are you listening KT??? ;)
Mast tracks are a must very useful if you want to mix and match foils and boards. Otherwise, things may be unbalanced.
Foil SUPs that can be windfoiled tend to have the foil mast much further forward than "regular" foil boards. If they are short, that also means the distance between mast foot and mast is shorter. That limits sail size, and requires more skills, especially to pump up on a foil. I bought a 7 ft JP SUP and was glad to hand it to my wife because I found it quite hard to windfoil. She adjusted fast and windfoiled it without problems afterwards, but now uses it only for winging.
Select to expand quoteboardsurfr said..
Mast tracks are a must very useful if you want to mix and match foils and boards. Otherwise, things may be unbalanced.
Foil SUPs that can be windfoiled tend to have the foil mast much further forward than "regular" foil boards. If they are short, that also means the distance between mast foot and mast is shorter. That limits sail size, and requires more skills, especially to pump up on a foil. I bought a 7 ft JP SUP and was glad to hand it to my wife because I found it quite hard to windfoil. She adjusted fast and windfoiled it without problems afterwards, but now uses it only for winging.
Interesting, so far I don't feel the need of a mast track. I have no foostraps and can move the foil in the track...however I did not hit wave yet with it...maybe with a push of a wave I will feel the need of it?Also, the JP Sup Foil got a short waterline, a 7'0 might have a shorter waterline than a wizard 105 maybe...with the cut out at the back. To my experience this seems to really help the low end by helping the pumping of the board. That SUP Foil is a WWF surfing ride...no straps, a small sail and you go, but I never thought about a large sail....it's quite narrow as well (70cm)...I guess it's not made to carry a large sail probably?
Select to expand quoteboardsurfr said..
Mast tracks are a must very useful if you want to mix and match foils and boards. Otherwise, things may be unbalanced.
Foil SUPs that can be windfoiled tend to have the foil mast much further forward than "regular" foil boards. If they are short, that also means the distance between mast foot and mast is shorter. That limits sail size, and requires more skills, especially to pump up on a foil. I bought a 7 ft JP SUP and was glad to hand it to my wife because I found it quite hard to windfoil. She adjusted fast and windfoiled it without problems afterwards, but now uses it only for winging.
Interesting, yes it's fairly a short distance(mast to mast)!!
So far I don't feel the need of a mast track. I have no foostraps and can move the foil in the track...however I did not hit wave yet with it...maybe with a push of a wave I will feel the need of it?Also, the JP Sup Foil got a short waterline, a 7'0 might have a shorter waterline than a wizard 105 maybe...with the cut out at the back. To my experience this seems to really help the low end by helping the pumping of the board. That SUP Foil is a WWF surfing ride...no straps, a small sail and you go, but I never thought about a large sail....it's quite narrow as well (70cm)...I guess it's not made to carry a large sail probably?
Select to expand quoteShlogger said..
So many variables. As a WWF style Foiler I can tell you that on my JP 7' Foil Sup I ride it w the foil track 1/4 back from front of track. As for the sail, it's a mast insert, so only one position. I use a windsurf fuselage as it provide more stability for jibing and upwind ability. In this setup, front foot is just behind mast and back foot is forward of rear strap inserts. Of course the idea is to use chop and wave energy on a large foil to glide vs wind energy. Is it unstable? Only if you pump like you would on a regular windfoil board. Instead it likes an upright stance and micro pumps.
The new Goya looked like it could be my next WWF style board but no pads up where my front foot would be. Same issue w the new JP Freestyle foil board as well as a lack of bevel.
Specifically you asked about length. Yes, it makes a difference. All length and weight forward of the mast foot lends to the nose HUNTiNG in whatever direction you lean. I once rode a friends custom 140 liter 8' Sup/wing foil board. If I leaned to much port or starboard I couldn't recover and bring it back online. It was comical.
But you have to weigh length w function (Uphauling, tacking, tracking).
Right now my dream board would be the new Quatro Drifter Wing Board in a 6'6"-6'8" with a short mast track. Are you listening KT??? ;)
Be patient on Sept.7th Fanatic coming with some new Wing-Wind Multi toys...
Select to expand quoteNordRoi said..boardsurfr said..
Mast tracks are a must very useful if you want to mix and match foils and boards. Otherwise, things may be unbalanced.
Foil SUPs that can be windfoiled tend to have the foil mast much further forward than "regular" foil boards. If they are short, that also means the distance between mast foot and mast is shorter. That limits sail size, and requires more skills, especially to pump up on a foil. I bought a 7 ft JP SUP and was glad to hand it to my wife because I found it quite hard to windfoil. She adjusted fast and windfoiled it without problems afterwards, but now uses it only for winging.
Interesting, so far I don't feel the need of a mast track. I have no foostraps and can move the foil in the track...however I did not hit wave yet with it...maybe with a push of a wave I will feel the need of it?Also, the JP Sup Foil got a short waterline, a 7'0 might have a shorter waterline than a wizard 105 maybe...with the cut out at the back. To my experience this seems to really help the low end by helping the pumping of the board. That SUP Foil is a WWF surfing ride...no straps, a small sail and you go, but I never thought about a large sail....it's quite narrow as well (70cm)...I guess it's not made to carry a large sail probably?
First a correction: I meant the tracks for the foil mast, not the mast track on top of the board.
I'm using a 6.5 m sail on a 71 cm slalom board without any problems. It gets me going a knot or two earlier than my 5.6. The board is an older slalom shape, so the tail is quite a bit narrower than the JP. So I thought the 6.5 should work fine on the JP Foil SUP 7.0. But when I tried, I had a hard time, and only saw later that the specs list "< 6.2" as the "Rec. sail size", and 4.0-6.0 as the ideal sail size.
As Shlogger said, the foil SUP would require an adjustment in stance and pump technique, "upright stance and micro pumps". That might also help with the last freestyle sail I bought, where I don't get the same low end I got from a different sail in the same size that it replaced. But I have not yet figured out how to micro pump from an upright stance.
