Hello,
I started Foiling with a Slingshot i76 wing . My goal is to go foiling when the wind is very light. In stronger wind from 13 kts upwards I will go windsurfing with 85 cm wide Slalomboard and big sails (9,6 or 8,6), because I like the speed that this board offers even in light wind. In stronger wind I will change to freemove or freewave board.
Would the i84 or even the i99 frontwing be a better choice for my weight of 95 kg ( 200 lbs) for this lightwind days or is the difference in getting on the fly and stay there also in the lulls not that much in relation to the i76? I will use a 6,5 freeride sail or also a 7,8 freerace 3 cam sail. I fear that the i99 might be a bit boring because I heared it is much slower, therefore think about the i84, but I am not sure.
What is Your suggestion?
BR
Alex
Im 90kg. With same dilemma I went for i99 as I felt the i84 was not a big enough step from i99. Im afraid if you want serious speed in very light wind then you need to swap to a full race set up (which could be worth considering if you are already using a 9.6 slalom sail), although others should comment how practical that is for us heavyweights.
By my standards I find the i99 plenty of fun - but of course it is slower than the i76 as it has more drag and is being used in lighter winds. Make sure the i99 balance point works on your board - it doesnt on my ancient formula.
Yes. Quite a number of foilers in the US Pacific NW (Seattle and Gorge) do exactly this.
Select to expand quoteboardsurfr said..
What board are you using? Width? Tuttle or track mount?
I use my Angulo Magnum Slalomboard with deep tuttle box, 85 cm wide, 135 Liters.
I do not want to go into the racefoil direction. Just a little bit of fun in light wind. Is the i99 much slower than the i84? How many knots earlier can You use it?
BR
Alex
The 84 and the 76 have considerable overlap, and if you really want to maximize the low end the 99 will be best. Being on the foil is way better than not being on the foil even if the 99 is less snappy. When I got the 99 I felt that the speed was not so different than the 84, that I ended up selling my 84.
But as you fin on 8+m sails, I would be curious if you could make the 76 or 84 work as well as the 99 in very light wind with one of those massive sails? The biggest sail I have is a 6.5 and I use that with the 99. I am not sure any bigger sail would make any difference, and wonder if the relatively slow speed of the 99 can handle massive race sails?
Part of me thinks that as you will likely jump on the fin at 13 knots, your window for using the 76 is pretty narrow and if you added the 99 you would spend most of your foiling time on the 99, which for me is no where near as fun as the 76. The 84 is much closer in experience to the 76, so maybe
13 knots and up go fin
9-13 knots 84 and big sail
Below 9 knots go for a swim
My guess is that the 99 will get you one or two knots additional relative to the 84 and a big sail, but your fun will be in that 9-13 range will be less than what you would have on the 84
PS: considering you are a big guy and that you still want to fin sail, then the 84 is probably a better all around wing for you than the 76
PPS: if you were going to foil full time then the 76/99 combo might be the go
Select to expand quotecad184 said..
I use my Angulo Magnum Slalomboard with deep tuttle box, 85 cm wide, 135 Liters.
That will not work well with the 84 or the 99 because the front wing will be too far back. It can be foiled, but you loose most or all of the light wind advantage, and the stance will be very back foot heavy.
I have used the 84 with a slalom board (Exocet Warp 71/117) in the past, and added a "D" position to the fuse to get a balanced stance (not a good idea, the fuse broke eventually). In the Fanatic Stringray I use now, I have the 84 in C position, and the mast is about 1-2 cm from the front of the track (much more forward than it would be in the tuttle box). The 99 needs to be even further forward than the 84. My wife uses the 84 and 99, and the 99 is about 3-4 cm further forward in the tracks.
Check out the foot strap positions in the Slingshot Levitator and Magnum. On the Magnum, the tuttle box is a bit behind the foot straps. On the Levitator, the foot straps are further back, and the track allows the foil mast to be in front of the straps.
AFS F1080 wing has been a good compromise for me in lightwinds, good speed and can get up in 8-10 knots with a Freespeed 8.0 sail.
Select to expand quoteboardsurfr said..cad184 said..
I use my Angulo Magnum Slalomboard with deep tuttle box, 85 cm wide, 135 Liters.
That will not work well with the 84 or the 99 because the front wing will be too far back. It can be foiled, but you loose most or all of the light wind advantage, and the stance will be very back foot heavy.
I have used the 84 with a slalom board (Exocet Warp 71/117) in the past, and added a "D" position to the fuse to get a balanced stance (not a good idea, the fuse broke eventually). In the Fanatic Stringray I use now, I have the 84 in C position, and the mast is about 1-2 cm from the front of the track (much more forward than it would be in the tuttle box). The 99 needs to be even further forward than the 84. My wife uses the 84 and 99, and the 99 is about 3-4 cm further forward in the tracks.
Check out the foot strap positions in the Slingshot Levitator and Magnum. On the Magnum, the tuttle box is a bit behind the foot straps. On the Levitator, the foot straps are further back, and the track allows the foil mast to be in front of the straps.
He is pretty big, so I think the 84 should work. Worst case is that he could move the straps and/or mast track back a bit. 99 is a different story though. How heavy are you boardsurfr?
Select to expand quotethedoor said..
He is pretty big, so I think the 84 should work. Worst case is that he could move the straps and/or mast track back a bit. 99 is a different story though. How heavy are you boardsurfr?
I'm 200 lb, exactly the same weight he is. The picture above shows it's not possible to move the footstraps back much further. When I used a slalom board for foiling, the mastfoot was nearly all the way back in the track (even after I added tracks).
On my foilboard, the back foot is typically exactly where the foil mast is. To get a similar alignment on the Magnum, the back foot would have to be on top of the rear footstrap screw inserts.
Below is a chart about what happens to the center of lift, NP(netrual point), with various slingshot foils. The numbers are based on an rule of thumb formula from the 30's and 40's for general aviation aircraft. They are relative numbers, not absolute numbers. By the way older general aviation and windsurfing hydrofoils operate at about the same renyolds numbers.
The table says your center of lift will move about an inch forward when moving from the I76 to the I99 will maintaining the S42 stabilzer.
I'm about your weight and find the 99 to be a good light wind wing on light days. I like it better than the 84. I go between the 99 for light winds and swap out to the H4 (Spaceskate) for wind the wind picks up.
While it works with the 42 stabilizer, I like the 48 better with the 99.
I use the Wizard 125.
Have fun!
DC
Hi Alex
There is a lot of miss-information on the i99 and which board to use it on simply because Slingshots website used to say that the i99 worked with the Levitator boards only!
This subject comes up a lot because of it, but the i99 has worked on any board type we tested it on as a collective group (tuttle and twin track boxes).
I weigh 200 lbs and have been using the i99 for quite a while, the i84 will not get you foiling in 5-12 knots but the i99 will (with good pumping and good technique) with a 5.8. You will give up top end but once the wind picks up just swap over to the i76.
Select to expand quoteboardsurfr said..thedoor said..
He is pretty big, so I think the 84 should work. Worst case is that he could move the straps and/or mast track back a bit. 99 is a different story though. How heavy are you boardsurfr?
I'm 200 lb, exactly the same weight he is. The picture above shows it's not possible to move the footstraps back much further. When I used a slalom board for foiling, the mastfoot was nearly all the way back in the track (even after I added tracks).
On my foilboard, the back foot is typically exactly where the foil mast is. To get a similar alignment on the Magnum, the back foot would have to be on top of the rear footstrap screw inserts.
Yeah not ideal, on a slalom board
I find that if I keep all things equal I need to run the i99 4-5 inches further forward than the i76. This may have more to do with the lower speed than the center of lift, as the measurements above would suggest that I would place it further back.
If I had the Angulo Magnum with its far-aft finbox, I would run a race foil on it since a race foil locates the front wing further forward of the strut than freeride foils do. Then just ride it as a freeride foil. The dimensions of the Magnum are perfect for foiling. Also, the picture shows that the finbox goes all the way up to the top skin without those screw wells ("chimneys"). This probably means the finbox is strong enough to carry forward cantilevering loads from the foil. Use a leash anyway.
However, my experience with the i76 in the B position is that it has a very broad balance point. I use mine on an old formula board with a far-aft finbox. It balances out just fine without requiring excessive back foot pressure. That surprised me the first time I rode it. Been riding it ever since. With a 6.8 sail, I run the sail mast base at 42 inches from the front fin screw.
Thank You very much for Your help.
It looks like that with the i99 there could be a problem, to find the right setup on my slalomboard. The i84 does not seem to be that big difference to the i76 in terms of planing (but maybe better a staying on the plane). So maybe I will give the i76 a try with bigger sails first. What is the biggest sail size that You have tried the i76 with? How big will make sense ( i am used to sail theese big sail with my slalomboard with fin). Is a 7,8 or even a 8,6 doable?
BR
Alex
Select to expand quotecad184 said..
Thank You very much for Your help.
It looks like that with the i99 there could be a problem, to find the right setup on my slalomboard. The i84 does not seem to be that big difference to the i76 in terms of planing (but maybe better a staying on the plane). So maybe I will give the i76 a try with bigger sails first. What is the biggest sail size that You have tried the i76 with? How big will make sense ( i am used to sail theese big sail with my slalomboard with fin). Is a 7,8 or even a 8,6 doable?
BR
Alex
I want to know this too. The biggest I have used is 6.5. It does seem like at least with bigger wings there is not much benefit to going bigger than 6ish
I don't have as much foiling experience (1.5 seasons in the Midwest) as others here, but this is my experience:
I started with the standard blue SS front wing on a Dialer. Moved to a Wizard 125 and i76. Then got an i99 because I wanted to foil more in lighter winds. I'm 185 lbs. Biggest sail I have used is a 7.0, and I stopped using it when I found a 6.3 performs about the same with better balance and is much nicer to handle. With the 99 I can get flying in significantly lighter winds--maybe 10-12 mph with some pumping. It's fun to get flying and buzz past your friends on fins who are slogging with 8s. I need to spend more time with the 76 because it is more agile and I'm still trying to learn to jibe. I'm learning to pump more efficiently too, which is important, as I would like to use the 76 in lighter winds. Currently there's not much difference in wind needed to fly with the 76 and 6.3 vs. planing with a 7.0 on my slapper.
There does seem to be a huge difference in the center of lift between the 76 and the 99. When the wind picks up and I move from the 99 to the 76 I feel very unbalance and front foot heavy, needing to move the sail mast way forward. The 76 has a neck on it, unlike the 99. This year I'm going to experiment with shimming the stab when I use the 76 (2018 Wizard with Tuttle no tracks).
If you really want to maximize time on the water in light winds, I would try a 99. Maybe you can borrow one to try. They're pricey!
I tried a 9.0 over the i76 on the old formula board. The board carried the sail well, but I did not get any better light wind performance than with a 6.8. Now granted, I don't even rig up until the wind hits a minimum of 12 mph--just the onset of whitecaps.
Some people foil in 10-12 mph winds with monster sails and i99 foils and their ilk. Not me. Too much work. Too close to not enough energy in the wind to make anything work. If you are young jock, and don't mind pumping your brains out, then fine. Go for it.
This is wind sport, after all. It takes some wind to foil. Trying to eke out a flight from <12 mph wind is a waste of time and energy, as I have proven to myself dozens and dozens of times. Fortunately, the old formula board is floaty enough to slog, but that's boring. And really slow.
I have the i84 and absolutely love it. It's a keeper! I'm 175 pounds, and out in 10-13 mph of wind with a 6.8 sail on my 130L SS Dialer. The i84 is very balanced, has plenty of speed. I believe the i84 can get up to speeds of 18mph and can be pushed to 20 mph.
Although I started windsurfing with the original Windsurfer in 1975, I'm new to foiling. At the age of 58, I don't need to do tricks or go superfast; I just want to maximize my time on the water in light air. I live on a tidal river near Savannah, Georgia (USA) and my average seabreeze is only 6-12 knots. Years ago I would use a 10 or 11 m sail on a Formula board but I got tired of dealing with the huge sails.
After several years away from the sport, I've become intrigued by foiling. Last month I purchased a Slingshot Hoverglide 76 foil, along with a Starboard 145 iFoil board and Severne 7.0 m foil sail. After several weeks of trying, I'm finding that I'm struggling to stay up on the foil, so, after reading these and other forums, I've just purchased the larger Slingshot i99 front wing. The Slingshot rep tells me to place this in "Position C" on the fuselage to keep the wing forward on the Starboard 145 iFoil (it has the deep Tuttle box).
My question to the group is, does anyone have experience using the larger Slingshot foils on the Starboard 145 iFoil boards?
I fully recognize that much of my difficulty likely resides in poor technique on my part. I'm finding that I'm having to unlearn decades of muscle memory to adapt to a new stance and feel on the board. Still, I enjoy the challenge, and the few times of gotten onto the foil (never more than about 10 seconds at a time) the sensation of gliding over the water is amazing.
Any suggestions or advice about using the i99 on the Starboard iFoil board would be welcome.
Select to expand quoteFoulweatherjack said..
Although I started windsurfing with the original Windsurfer in 1975, I'm new to foiling. At the age of 58, I don't need to do tricks or go superfast; I just want to maximize my time on the water in light air. I live on a tidal river near Savannah, Georgia (USA) and my average seabreeze is only 6-12 knots. Years ago I would use a 10 or 11 m sail on a Formula board but I got tired of dealing with the huge sails.
After several years away from the sport, I've become intrigued by foiling. Last month I purchased a Slingshot Hoverglide 76 foil, along with a Starboard 145 iFoil board and Severne 7.0 m foil sail. After several weeks of trying, I'm finding that I'm struggling to stay up on the foil, so, after reading these and other forums, I've just purchased the larger Slingshot i99 front wing. The Slingshot rep tells me to place this in "Position C" on the fuselage to keep the wing forward on the Starboard 145 iFoil (it has the deep Tuttle box).
My question to the group is, does anyone have experience using the larger Slingshot foils on the Starboard 145 iFoil boards?
I fully recognize that much of my difficulty likely resides in poor technique on my part. I'm finding that I'm having to unlearn decades of muscle memory to adapt to a new stance and feel on the board. Still, I enjoy the challenge, and the few times of gotten onto the foil (never more than about 10 seconds at a time) the sensation of gliding over the water is amazing.
Any suggestions or advice about using the i99 on the Starboard iFoil board would be welcome.
I documented my struggle to get flying in this thread here, on a 145L hybrid board www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/Can-t-get-flying?page=1
C is likely the correct position for the 99. You may try putting the mast track further back. My first consistent flights were with the 99 with the mast track as far back as I could get it with there still being meat for the foot nut to grab onto the mast track with. Since then, I've been able to get the i76 (Position B) going with improved pumping technique.
Thank you for the encouragement. I placed the order for the i99 front wing today. It will be about 10 days before I can try it out; I can't wait!
Select to expand quoteFoulweatherjack said..
Although I started windsurfing with the original Windsurfer in 1975, I'm new to foiling. At the age of 58, I don't need to do tricks or go superfast; I just want to maximize my time on the water in light air. I live on a tidal river near Savannah, Georgia (USA) and my average seabreeze is only 6-12 knots. Years ago I would use a 10 or 11 m sail on a Formula board but I got tired of dealing with the huge sails.
After several years away from the sport, I've become intrigued by foiling. Last month I purchased a Slingshot Hoverglide 76 foil, along with a Starboard 145 iFoil board and Severne 7.0 m foil sail. After several weeks of trying, I'm finding that I'm struggling to stay up on the foil, so, after reading these and other forums, I've just purchased the larger Slingshot i99 front wing. The Slingshot rep tells me to place this in "Position C" on the fuselage to keep the wing forward on the Starboard 145 iFoil (it has the deep Tuttle box).
My question to the group is, does anyone have experience using the larger Slingshot foils on the Starboard 145 iFoil boards?
I fully recognize that much of my difficulty likely resides in poor technique on my part. I'm finding that I'm having to unlearn decades of muscle memory to adapt to a new stance and feel on the board. Still, I enjoy the challenge, and the few times of gotten onto the foil (never more than about 10 seconds at a time) the sensation of gliding over the water is amazing.
Any suggestions or advice about using the i99 on the Starboard iFoil board would be welcome.
For me the i99 in C needs to be about 3-4 inches forward in the foil track of the i76 in B. This distance is less in heavier dudes (i am 76kg)
If your board does not have the track then you may need to move the mast track back on the i99
Select to expand quoteFoulweatherjack said..
Although I started windsurfing with the original Windsurfer in 1975, I'm new to foiling. At the age of 58, I don't need to do tricks or go superfast; I just want to maximize my time on the water in light air. I live on a tidal river near Savannah, Georgia (USA) and my average seabreeze is only 6-12 knots. Years ago I would use a 10 or 11 m sail on a Formula board but I got tired of dealing with the huge sails.
After several years away from the sport, I've become intrigued by foiling. Last month I purchased a Slingshot Hoverglide 76 foil, along with a Starboard 145 iFoil board and Severne 7.0 m foil sail. After several weeks of trying, I'm finding that I'm struggling to stay up on the foil, so, after reading these and other forums, I've just purchased the larger Slingshot i99 front wing. The Slingshot rep tells me to place this in "Position C" on the fuselage to keep the wing forward on the Starboard 145 iFoil (it has the deep Tuttle box).
My question to the group is, does anyone have experience using the larger Slingshot foils on the Starboard 145 iFoil boards?
I fully recognize that much of my difficulty likely resides in poor technique on my part. I'm finding that I'm having to unlearn decades of muscle memory to adapt to a new stance and feel on the board. Still, I enjoy the challenge, and the few times of gotten onto the foil (never more than about 10 seconds at a time) the sensation of gliding over the water is amazing.
Any suggestions or advice about using the i99 on the Starboard iFoil board would be welcome.
Foulweatherjack (great name btw),
I have i99 , I84 and Severne glide foil 7.0, but board is Exocet RF91, am not sure the board is that critical.
Also sail in light winds, am using the I99th more than the i84.
Keep on foiling, experience is a wonderful thing.
Dog,
Thanks for the advice. I can't wait for the i99 to arrive.
Re my nom de forum, it's stolen from history. The poet Lord Byron had an illustrious ancestor, a sea captain who had a knack for getting shipwrecked in the mid 18th century and somehow living to tell about it. He was called Foulweather Jack Byron (not to be confused with Mad Jack, Byron's father, who made a career of marrying heiresses, pissing away their fortunes, and leaving them penniless).
If Byron were alive today, I think he'd be foiling when not writing poetry. At least I'd like to think so.
Select to expand quoteFoulweatherjack said..
Dog,
Thanks for the advice. I can't wait for the i99 to arrive.
Re my nom de forum, it's stolen from history. The poet Lord Byron had an illustrious ancestor, a sea captain who had a knack for getting shipwrecked in the mid 18th century and somehow living to tell about it. He was called Foulweather Jack Byron (not to be confused with Mad Jack, Byron's father, who made a career of marrying heiresses, pissing away their fortunes, and leaving them penniless).
If Byron were alive today, I think he'd be foiling when not writing poetry. At least I'd like to think so.
Much better name than Gassy Jack (British Columbia).
Select to expand quoteZeroVix said..Foulweatherjack said..
Dog,
Thanks for the advice. I can't wait for the i99 to arrive.
Re my nom de forum, it's stolen from history. The poet Lord Byron had an illustrious ancestor, a sea captain who had a knack for getting shipwrecked in the mid 18th century and somehow living to tell about it. He was called Foulweather Jack Byron (not to be confused with Mad Jack, Byron's father, who made a career of marrying heiresses, pissing away their fortunes, and leaving them penniless).
If Byron were alive today, I think he'd be foiling when not writing poetry. At least I'd like to think so.
Much better name than Gassy Jack (British Columbia).
No doubt Gassy Jack provides his own wind....
I think board geometry is the most important issue here. A friend of mine has been learning to foil on a AHD slalom board with the finbox way back there and the mast track way up there. Minimum distance between the back end of the mast track and the front fin screw is 46 inches. When he foils he has to completely burn out his back leg to get flight. This is with a Power Plate to set everything as far forward as possible. His geometry is wrong with that board.
I had him take out my Exo 132 foil board with a i76 in B. He called it a total eye-opener. Sheet in and it pops up into balanced flight. No drama. He foiled so well and relaxed that he did not want to give it back to me. What finally got him off the water was that the tide kept getting lower and he stared scraping the sandy bottom (Florida).
Dedicated foil boards, and most of the later formula boards, have the correct geometry to balance a foil.
So my Starboard 145 iFoil is a dedicated foil board. Although I'm a rank beginner, when I try to foil in light air with the i76 Slingshot wing, the few times I've gotten onto the foil I feel totally out of control. I'm hoping that with the i99 wing I'll have more lift for earlier, slower foiling so I can shorten the learning curve.
I appreciate all the advice.
Select to expand quoteFoulweatherjack said..
So my Starboard 145 iFoil is a dedicated foil board. Although I'm a rank beginner, when I try to foil in light air with the i76 Slingshot wing, the few times I've gotten onto the foil I feel totally out of control. I'm hoping that with the i99 wing I'll have more lift for earlier, slower foiling so I can shorten the learning curve.
I appreciate all the advice.
Day and night. i99 is like driving a Cadillac from the 50's and i76 manual Italian sports car. Cruising vs Carving.
