Hi,
I have slingshot i76 and I can fly easily from 12 knots.. Under 12 knots I need to pump hard to take off. Under 10 knots I can't really make it work...With 10-12 knots I use racing blade 7.8 and it works actually good to take off with the puffs and have stable flights. 7.0 is too small and 8.6 is too big.. I can't really pump it to take off...
The dream is flying under 10 knots... There are indeed different options (bigger wing, different foil etc..) but I would like to do that without changing so much on my setup... So, I was wondering If I buy the loft skyscape 8.0 would it be then possible for me to take off under 10 knots... I understand that foil sails have much more power on the low end.
P.s: I am 90 kg.
Has anyone experience with that?
Cheers!
Not really an answer but my daughter (70kgs) just started using a 2020 7.8 GA Air ride on a slingshot i76, and makes it work from 8kts (not tried in lower winds) when most normal people have given up, She isnt into heart bursting pumping and is an intermediate foiler. She finds the physical lightness and lightness of feel when sailing a real benefit (and thats compared to a 7.5 Gator). She doesnt talk about it having a tractor like pull - more that the pull is light and sort of up, so not designed to keep a normal windsurf boards nose down in chop but designed to allow the board to lift (weirdly you can reverse this lift effect by letting outhaul off! As sail gets fuller near luff the pull becomes more downwards) Unfortunately I havent had chance to use it yet (90kgs).
You may also need a bigger front wing at your weight if you dont want to pump like mad. I have an i99, but there are pros and cons to that approach (more drag, slower, less apparent, cost, board balance, but very low stall speed).
Select to expand quoteSmidgeuk said..
Not really an answer but my daughter (70kgs) just started using a 2020 7.8 GA Air ride on a slingshot i76, and makes it work from 8kts (not tried in lower winds) when most normal people have given up, She isnt into heart bursting pumping and is an intermediate foiler. She finds the physical lightness and lightness of feel when sailing a real benefit (and thats compared to a 7.5 Gator). She doesnt talk about it having a tractor like pull - more that the pull is light and sort of up, so not designed to keep a normal windsurf boards nose down in chop but designed to allow the board to lift (weirdly you can reverse this lift effect by letting outhaul off! As sail gets fuller near luff the pull becomes more downwards) Unfortunately I havent had chance to use it yet (90kgs).
You may also need a bigger front wing at your weight if you dont want to pump like mad. I have an i99, but there are pros and cons to that approach (more drag, slower, less apparent, cost, board balance, but very low stall speed).
Thnx for the reply! That explains! What is the minimum wind that you are using the i99 with? and which sail sizes? I actually don't really mind the speed at this moment if it just works with 6 to 10 knots wind. I considered to buy i99 really long but just because I would probably want to buy race like foil in near future I don't want to invest more in slingshot.. It feels like gambling buying stuff without being able to test it before...
I got the i99 too after much battling in low winds with the i76. I'm still a beginner foiler, but have ridden it stably in both straps on my 145L Blast. The downside of the i99 is how much leverage it gets when overpowered or when there's some chop/swell. I personally cannot yet deal with big swell on the i99 but I think I may after more time on the water.
I've had a couple days where the wind showed up after a nice i99 session and I switched out the i99 for the i76 and kept going. And if the i76 gets overpowered I just slap a fin on and get blasting. This is without changing the sail or anything else other than mast base position when switching from the foil to fin.
Edit: So far I've used 5.0-8.0 with the I76 and I99. I think it is around 8-10kts minimum on the i99 with my weight (83-87kg depending on when I did it)
I was using a 9.0 Aerotech Freespeed sail for 8-10 knots, but now use an 8.0 Freespeed which is easy to pump compared to the 9.0, takes a little pumping of sail and foil sometimes, maybe 3-4 reps. Rig the sail with minimal down haul, no crease in upper sail, and adjust outhaul to the minimum that still allows good pumping. I weigh 85 kg, on a AFS Wind95 with F1080 wing (1080 cm2), do use 2 0.5 mm stab. shims for 10 and under. But my board is a Goya Bolt 135, which has a relatively narrow/thin tail, so I have to move forward to keep the tail from sinking preflight in light winds. With a dedicated foil board it would probably be easier in 8-10, but I like the Bolt for several other reasons.
Tune RaceBlade for low wind....less outhaul and downhaul. When powered, come in and add tension.
Select to expand quoteLeeD said..
Tune RaceBlade for low wind....less outhaul and downhaul. When powered, come in and add tension.
Agree with LeeD, you may be able to use the 7.8 if the sail and foil are tuned properly and you pump the sail and board together rhythmically. But that is on flat water, if you have a swell then I would pump on the swell to get enough speed and then turn to the wind. Another variable is the current, if you are going into a current it makes it a lot harder, I ran into that problem in the Gulf of Mexico.
My most efficient lightwind foiling was with Naish lift 5.7m (rigged pretty flat), big wide board (slingshot levitator 150) and i99. With that combo I could get going as early as anyone, the only people that come close were hardcore race foilers. This combo was pretty epic last winter, as long as the wind did not pick up much
I have been experimenting with the i76 and bigger cammed sails eg flyer 7m and more recently HSM speedfreak 6.5m (great sail for foiling by the way) and I found that I could not achieve the same level of early foiling as I could on the that lift/levi/i99 combo. I made the mistake of selling my levi, but I am hoping that the speedfreak would give me nearly the same pumping power as the naish lift, but not get overpowered when the wind picks up.
My current conclusion is that to maximize the low end it's either a massive wing and a smaller light sail that pumps well or race foil and large cammed race sail. A big wide is probably mandatory for both. The massive wing/pumping sail is less effort but the whole kit becomes hard to manage as the wind picks up, whereas the race foil guys seem to have quite a big wind range but those big sails are hard work, at least for me.
I agree with the door, with a smaller, light weight sail and the i99 wing you can easily pump up in less than 10 knots.
We are the same weight (90 kg) and the biggest sail I use is a 5.8 Naish Sprint, Wizard 130 and I99 for 10 knots and less.
The Naish 5.8 is 5 batten sail, no cambers and I rig it on a Maui Sails 430 SDM mast, the older Maui Sails are hard top masts and perfect for pumping if you are a heavier rider.
Which board are you using? because adding an 8.0 will increase rig weight and a lot of drag.
The video is from last year on the Wizard 125 (tuttle box, 42 rear wing in position B) and my older Naish 5.8 with hard top mast.
May well be my poor pumping technique, but I find I can get i99 to work with a 7.5 Gator in super light conditions when I cant get it to work with a 6.0. I just cant get enough resistance to pull against in the pump. And then if I do manage to foil pump it out of the water i stall or almost get back winded.
Do keep in mind though that the i99 is not compatible with all (many?) boards. Its centre of lift is well back so if you have a tuttle box it may be that you cant get it far enough back to work even with the mast attached at position C. Thats the case for one of my boards (old windsurf board). Ideally you would want twin tracks, or at the least to have found someone (here) who confirms it works on your board. Slingshot themselves say it is not compatible with their Wizard 125 for this reason (yet plenty of people say it works). i84 is an alternative.
Select to expand quoteSmidgeuk said..
May well be my poor pumping technique, but I find I can get i99 to work with a 7.5 Gator in super light conditions when I cant get it to work with a 6.0. I just cant get enough resistance to pull against in the pump. And then if I do manage to foil pump it out of the water i stall or almost get back winded.
Do keep in mind though that the i99 is not compatible with all (many?) boards. Its centre of lift is well back so if you have a tuttle box it may be that you cant get it far enough back to work even with the mast attached at position C. Thats the case for one of my boards (old windsurf board). Ideally you would want twin tracks, or at the least to have found someone (here) who confirms it works on your board. Slingshot themselves say it is not compatible with their Wizard 125 for this reason (yet plenty of people say it works). i84 is an alternative.
Slingshot advised on the website using the i99 on the Levitator as that board has twin tracks, I personally think not too much testing was done with the I99 wing on tuttle boxed boards as the I99 was really developed for Wake style foiling, SUP foiling etc in mind.
We have tested it here quite extensively and as a collective group every single board works, you just have to dial in your mast base, footstrap positions for yourself. Some riders prefer B and some C, no one size shoe fits all 
off the top of my head we have used the following with the I99:
SS Wizard 125 (tuttle)
SS Wizard 130 (twin track)
SS FS115 (tuttle and twin)
JP Pro 135 (tuttle)
Horue Slant 135 (tuttle)
Horue Slant 145 (tuttle)
Horue Tiny 120 (tuttle)
JP lightwind slalom board (tuttle)
JP Pro 155 (tuttle)
Naish Hover 142 (twin track)
SS Levitator 160 (twin track)
Starboard Hypersonic (tuttle)
I took this pic last spring, 2 local guys exact same height and weight (6' 2" @ 80 kgs)
Wind was 5 knots puffing 10-11 knots, both schlogged around, both caught puffs, both got rides :)
Goya 5.6 on SS FS115 and i99 - prefers to use pumping technique
Ezzy 8.5 on Horue Slant 145 and i99 - prefers to use bigger sail and board
Select to expand quoteSmidgeuk said..
May well be my poor pumping technique, but I find I can get i99 to work with a 7.5 Gator in super light conditions when I cant get it to work with a 6.0. I just cant get enough resistance to pull against in the pump. And then if I do manage to foil pump it out of the water i stall or almost get back winded.
Yeah, it's one thing being able to pump onto the foil but it's another thing to have enough sail power to keep the board on the foil without pumping.
Seems like we are looking for three things in a sail 1) powerful non-tiring pumpage, 2) enough power when not pumping, 3) able to tolerate high winds and apparent wind on faster foils. For me 1 and 3 are most important, probably because the foils I use are more freeride and I need less power to keep them up.
I too went down that road on 'how do I get foiling in light wind'. At the time I had the the i76, i84 and i99. I used the i99 with my 160L Levitator and a 6.8 Duotone f-type. I was able to get on foil in very little wind ... the problem (for me) was that it was a lot of work during hot and humid summer days on the Chesapeake Bay - and ultimately not all that fun. If I lived a place where the summer was milder I probably would have been happier with the setup.
I also felt that there was not a huge difference between when I could get on foil between the i99 and i84 AND the i84 is way more fun in pretty much all conditions (my personal experience). And finally, I felt there was too much backfoot pressure needed with the i99 - regardless of how/where I put the foil in the double track and where I positioned the UJ.
Don't read this as a negative review of the i99 but more as a positive review of the i84.
Here's a lightwind foiling video - the setup is the i84/Levitator/f-type 6.8
Select to expand quoteFoiler69er said..
I too went down that road on 'how do I get foiling in light wind'. At the time I had the the i76, i84 and i99. I used the i99 with my 160L Levitator and a 6.8 Duotone f-type. I was able to get on foil in very little wind ... the problem (for me) was that it was a lot of work during hot and humid summer days on the Chesapeake Bay - and ultimately not all that fun. If I lived a place where the summer was milder I probably would have been happier with the setup.
I also felt that there was not a huge difference between when I could get on foil between the i99 and i84 AND the i84 is way more fun in pretty much all conditions (my personal experience). And finally, I felt there was too much backfoot pressure needed with the i99 - regardless of how/where I put the foil in the double track and where I positioned the UJ.
Don't read this as a negative review of the i99 but more as a positive review of the i84.
Here's a lightwind foiling video - the setup is the i84/Levitator/f-type 6.8
Nice video and good points. I sold my 84 because I felt like the 99/76 combo covered it's range and made the 84 obsolete, but I am wondering if that was a mistake. The added low end of the 99 may not justify the slightlyhigherspeed and maneuverability of the 84.
My guess is that even with more sail you cannot get the 84 to lift in as light wind as you can on the 99. Do you agree?
Select to expand quotethedoor said..Foiler69er said..
I too went down that road on 'how do I get foiling in light wind'. At the time I had the the i76, i84 and i99. I used the i99 with my 160L Levitator and a 6.8 Duotone f-type. I was able to get on foil in very little wind ... the problem (for me) was that it was a lot of work during hot and humid summer days on the Chesapeake Bay - and ultimately not all that fun. If I lived a place where the summer was milder I probably would have been happier with the setup.
I also felt that there was not a huge difference between when I could get on foil between the i99 and i84 AND the i84 is way more fun in pretty much all conditions (my personal experience). And finally, I felt there was too much backfoot pressure needed with the i99 - regardless of how/where I put the foil in the double track and where I positioned the UJ.
Don't read this as a negative review of the i99 but more as a positive review of the i84.
Here's a lightwind foiling video - the setup is the i84/Levitator/f-type 6.8
Nice video and good points. I sold my 84 because I felt like the 99/76 combo covered it's range and made the 84 obsolete, but I am wondering if that was a mistake. The added low end of the 99 may not justify the slightlyhigherspeed and maneuverability of the 84.
My guess is that even with more sail you cannot get the 84 to lift in as light wind as you can on the 99. Do you agree?
I do agree. I could probably get on foil in lighter wind with the i99 but I felt that at lower speed the i99 was 'floating' around from side to side a bit (if that makes sense). As a result I felt I had to be 'frozen' on the board and that the slightest movement would result in dropping off of foil. Of course we are talking about very light wind ...
Absolute lightest wind foiling I've seen is the No. 1 Cal Cup reader at 160 lbs. on 9.0 NP, biggest Starboard 177, and 1000 carbon race wing.
No chance any 6.0 would get up in 5-11 holey shifty breeze and confused high tide chop.
Select to expand quoteFoiler69er said..thedoor said..Foiler69er said..
I too went down that road on 'how do I get foiling in light wind'. At the time I had the the i76, i84 and i99. I used the i99 with my 160L Levitator and a 6.8 Duotone f-type. I was able to get on foil in very little wind ... the problem (for me) was that it was a lot of work during hot and humid summer days on the Chesapeake Bay - and ultimately not all that fun. If I lived a place where the summer was milder I probably would have been happier with the setup.
I also felt that there was not a huge difference between when I could get on foil between the i99 and i84 AND the i84 is way more fun in pretty much all conditions (my personal experience). And finally, I felt there was too much backfoot pressure needed with the i99 - regardless of how/where I put the foil in the double track and where I positioned the UJ.
Don't read this as a negative review of the i99 but more as a positive review of the i84.
Here's a lightwind foiling video - the setup is the i84/Levitator/f-type 6.8
Nice video and good points. I sold my 84 because I felt like the 99/76 combo covered it's range and made the 84 obsolete, but I am wondering if that was a mistake. The added low end of the 99 may not justify the slightlyhigherspeed and maneuverability of the 84.
My guess is that even with more sail you cannot get the 84 to lift in as light wind as you can on the 99. Do you agree?
I do agree. I could probably get on foil in lighter wind with the i99 but I felt that at lower speed the i99 was 'floating' around from side to side a bit (if that makes sense). As a result I felt I had to be 'frozen' on the board and that the slightest movement would result in dropping off of foil. Of course we are talking about very light wind ...
I find the i99 easier than i84 for riding and gives me much better lift on 10-12 knot winds for my heavy set up (220 lbs). I will try to get on i84 based on your experience and play with my setup but i99 is definitely very stable and I extremely rarely experience any breach or unstable runs.
Select to expand quoteSA_AL said..Foiler69er said..thedoor said..Foiler69er said..
I too went down that road on 'how do I get foiling in light wind'. At the time I had the the i76, i84 and i99. I used the i99 with my 160L Levitator and a 6.8 Duotone f-type. I was able to get on foil in very little wind ... the problem (for me) was that it was a lot of work during hot and humid summer days on the Chesapeake Bay - and ultimately not all that fun. If I lived a place where the summer was milder I probably would have been happier with the setup.
I also felt that there was not a huge difference between when I could get on foil between the i99 and i84 AND the i84 is way more fun in pretty much all conditions (my personal experience). And finally, I felt there was too much backfoot pressure needed with the i99 - regardless of how/where I put the foil in the double track and where I positioned the UJ.
Don't read this as a negative review of the i99 but more as a positive review of the i84.
Here's a lightwind foiling video - the setup is the i84/Levitator/f-type 6.8
Nice video and good points. I sold my 84 because I felt like the 99/76 combo covered it's range and made the 84 obsolete, but I am wondering if that was a mistake. The added low end of the 99 may not justify the slightlyhigherspeed and maneuverability of the 84.
My guess is that even with more sail you cannot get the 84 to lift in as light wind as you can on the 99. Do you agree?
I do agree. I could probably get on foil in lighter wind with the i99 but I felt that at lower speed the i99 was 'floating' around from side to side a bit (if that makes sense). As a result I felt I had to be 'frozen' on the board and that the slightest movement would result in dropping off of foil. Of course we are talking about very light wind ...
I find the i99 easier than i84 for riding and gives me much better lift on 10-12 knot winds for my heavy set up (220 lbs). I will try to get on i84 based on your experience and play with my setup but i99 is definitely very stable and I extremely rarely experience any breach or unstable runs.
All the hoverglide wings are great and they all have strengths and weaknesses. It's great how easy it is to experiment with different wings. I find that what I like changes as my skills progress and in different conditions.
I find the i99 is stable in a straight-line but I do find it a bit harder to gybe, and I find it can become a handful if the wind picks up. But I am only 170lbs so it makes sense that it works better for you SA_AL.
Firstly, thanks a lot for all the useful answers above! Btw, I have arranged a test with the skyscape 8.0. So, I will test it first with my i76 and tabou Airride 145. I would try to test the efficiency in 10-12(+) knots and what it can do less than 10 knots:) If that doesn't match with the expectations probably I want to test the starboad race with a foil sail and if that is still no go probably I will get a i99 or just keep practicing in the light winds before I get a race foil:)
Skyscape 7.6 (2018 and 2019) is more powerful than Skyscape 8.0 (2020 and 2021).
You can also use with 7.6 sail a 490 mast instead of the 460.
You can take off with 7.6 to 8 knts of wind with pumping but you will need a powerful foil and a slippery board
Select to expand quotetintingwen said..
Skyscape 7.6 (2018 and 2019) is more powerful than Skyscape 8.0 (2020 and 2021).
You can also use with 7.6 sail a 490 mast instead of the 460.
You can take off with 7.6 to 8 knts of wind with pumping but you will need a powerful foil and a slippery board
Interesting! Why is that you think, new shape? I have received the sail so I will test it this week, really existed to compare it to my racing blades.
Select to expand quoteAwindSurfer said..
Firstly, thanks a lot for all the useful answers above! Btw, I have arranged a test with the skyscape 8.0. So, I will test it first with my i76 and tabou Airride 145. I would try to test the efficiency in 10-12(+) knots and what it can do less than 10 knots:) If that doesn't match with the expectations probably I want to test the starboad race with a foil sail and if that is still no go probably I will get a i99 or just keep practicing in the light winds before I get a race foil:)
If you need to move your foil on non-track windsurf board you could get an adaptor plate as described here but then you need to get the top plate also.
Select to expand quoteSA_AL said..AwindSurfer said..
Firstly, thanks a lot for all the useful answers above! Btw, I have arranged a test with the skyscape 8.0. So, I will test it first with my i76 and tabou Airride 145. I would try to test the efficiency in 10-12(+) knots and what it can do less than 10 knots:) If that doesn't match with the expectations probably I want to test the starboad race with a foil sail and if that is still no go probably I will get a i99 or just keep practicing in the light winds before I get a race foil:)
If you need to move your foil on non-track windsurf board you could get an adaptor plate as described here but then you need to get the top plate also.
From what I have heard, make sure you have a leash on your foil as he mentions, especially if it is a PB, only one M6 screw holding it on and if you hit something you pull the M6 screw through the board, or break off the head.
