I'm a beginner - not getting on foil : (
Weight @ 80 Kg - 180 lbs
SlingShot shred Sled
F wind V3 - i76 front wing - 46 cm short mast ( have 61 cm and 91 cm - haven't tried them yet)
Fuselage B position . Track position 2 - Sail Mast base middle of track - @ 75 cm from front of foil mast - as suggested by SS setup manual
Sailworks Flyer 5.2 m
Yesterday the forecast was 16 knots / gusting to 24 knts
I don't have a wind meter with me - I suspect it was mostly less wind.
I was just getting above planing and unto foil , then the wind would drop - OR I had to tack to avoid shallow water.
I haven't been pumping the sail or the board. I'm focusing on staying on centre line , keeping still with subtle weight shifts.
It will be windier for the next month in this area.
I wonder if my progression would be easier with a bigger front foil ?
Can I just add the i99 foil to my kit ? OR should I also have a bigger rear stabilizer too ?
_
On the plus side - I'm on the water and getting exercise ....
The board is more controlled and less squirrelly , than previous sessions.
Tacks are more consistent - sub planing - less uphauling .
Wasn't catapulted yesterday . All equipment is still intact and not damaged . And I haven't hurt myself yet.
Suggestions ?
Seems you've got plenty of wind, so I seen no point in getting a bigger foil. But switch to at least the 61 cm mast as soon as possible. The 46 cm is ok to get the idea of what foiling is about, but it is too short to get to steady flights. It is also harder to pump since any sideway pressure will make it slip sideways.
I would highly recommend a larger foil!
The bigger wing will get you flying sooner and more often. The lower speeds that it will cruz at will be less intimidating. You can use a smaller sail so you will catapult less and with less force when you do. I do not think you need a different stab.
I have the same board and it does not plane well. The tail kick as designed will not let the water release. I also have a wing very similar to the I76 and I know it needs to go at planning speeds before it will fly. That board paired with that wing is VERY hard to get launched.
The I99 lifts before planning speeds and so the tail kick is not a problem. It is also easies wing to learn on even if you had a different board. The length, width and volume of the shred sled are great for learning on and paired with a large wing it makes a good set up to learn windfoil on with the added bonus of the option to wing or sup foil as well. The bigger wing would be the right wing to learn the other disciplines on.
If you get to the point in your journey where want to ride faster wings that require planning speeds before lift off you can modify the sled like I did. You can see some pics and a description here.www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/-All-in-one-boards-?page=1
The made simple mod made a huge difference rideing my faster wing. It improved the performance noticably even on my big wing.
For reference, I'm 140lb on the I76. In that wind range I would be on my 4.5 flyer. I started foiling in April. I'm just now getting the benefits of pumping. For the longest time I would flap like a duck just enough to pop up, and then immediately touch back down. A lot of it for me is reading the wind when the conditions are boder line, and pumping technique. Also pumping when you are on the foil to catch the next wind line without touching down and starting over. I had a light wind session last night with winds 9-14 on my 4.5. When the brief 14 knot puff would hit, bear off a touch with 2 big pumps followed by shorter more rapid pumps to the board speed up enough to pump both sail and board. Once I foiled, turn back onto a reach so I don't out run the wind. As the puff would start to get weak, turn off the wind to keep some speed, then pump over to the next wind line (hopefully) and repeat. I surprised myself how long of a run I could get milking that light air.
Just takes a lot of practice.
The 76 wing is a very good overall wing. Keep practicing. Like in the first stages of windsurfing, you need more power to do anything. A bigger foil will give you a slightly earlier take off if you know what you are doing (it seems you are not at that stage yet!).
Yes, the 76 is faster than the 84 but we are not talking about a huge difference in top speed. On the other hand, the 76 behaves WAY better in winds above 18 knots. I used to use an infinity 84and weighed 180 pounds.
I think this depends largely on what your most common wind speed actually is. If your getting say 15/16 knots much of the time, then I'd say work more with your existing gear before paying the big $ for a bigger wing.
My early/learning experience with the 84 Infiinity was that due it being so slow, the sail size quickly gets too big and the overall set up gets over-powered and difficult to control. On the otherhand, the 76 Infinity (which some consider a big wing) has a much broader speed range yet not considered super fast (and can still go very slow). I sold my 84 infinity for this reason.
IF you are constantly in very light wind AND want to stay with smaller sails, then maybe the big wing may be better for you.
I started right away with the 91cm mast but do have lots of regular windsurf experience and have kite foilled. Starting new on wind foil is WAY easier than starting new on kite foiling. So the advice previously given to go to the 61cm mast ASAP makes much sense to me.
Select to expand quoteSparkEV said..
I'm a beginner - not getting on foil : (
Weight @ 80 Kg - 180 lbs
SlingShot shred Sled
F wind V3 - i76 front wing - 46 cm short mast ( have 61 cm and 91 cm - haven't tried them yet)
Fuselage B position . Track position 2 - Sail Mast base middle of track - @ 75 cm from front of foil mast - as suggested by SS setup manual
Sailworks Flyer 5.2 m
Yesterday the forecast was 16 knots / gusting to 24 knts
I don't have a wind meter with me - I suspect it was mostly less wind.
I was just getting above planing and unto foil , then the wind would drop - OR I had to tack to avoid shallow water.
I haven't been pumping the sail or the board. I'm focusing on staying on centre line , keeping still with subtle weight shifts.
It will be windier for the next month in this area.
I wonder if my progression would be easier with a bigger front foil ?
Can I just add the i99 foil to my kit ? OR should I also have a bigger rear stabilizer too ?
_
On the plus side - I'm on the water and getting exercise ....
The board is more controlled and less squirrelly , than previous sessions.
Tacks are more consistent - sub planing - less uphauling .
Wasn't catapulted yesterday . All equipment is still intact and not damaged . And I haven't hurt myself yet.
Suggestions ?
How big a wing you go for is down to how little wind you want to go in. but if you're planing the board without pumping, then you can fly (given if that is what you are experiencing, you'll be able to fly in less if you're willing to pump)
Tell us more bout the subtle weight shifts? They're exactly what you need to do when you're flying to keep steady flight, but when you're trying to get airborne initially, you will need to give the board some help/suggestion to pop up. If you're planing along ok, that'll come in the form of shifting weight back (your weight, and/or leaning the sail back a little. Sometimes all it takes is applying more weight to the back foot. Depending on where you're standing, it may involve stepping back.
if the board is planing but doesn't want to pop up, or stay up when you get flying, then it might need a change in setup, moving the foil forward in the track so the main foil is further under foot. Normally id say shim the stabilizer, but the slingshot foils are pretty well set up, and shouldn't really be shimmed.
Hello utcminusfour RE " if you get to the point in your journey where want to ride faster wings that require planning speeds before lift off you can modify the sled like I did. You can see some pics and a description here.www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/Foiling/-All-in-one-boards-?page=1"
What materials did you use ? Is is covered in removable duct tape ?
Blue foam cut in a wedge on table saw, tacked in place with spray asheasive so it could be shaped at the rails. Then a couple layers of light glass. I sanded and faired with filler then spray painted.
I hear everyones input about about your 76 is fine. They have a point, that is a proven easy to ride wing. I learned on a Horue vini and that is the opposite ride of the I76. I made it work because I wanted it bad. My next wing was the moses 790 and that is the same as the I76. This was a MASSIVE gainer and way easier. The moses 1100 was my third wing and I wish I had it to learn on. It is not really about light wind. Its about the ability to take off slow and foil at slow speeds that makes it easier to learn on. Being able to use small sails that uphaul easy. The extra span make it easier to control in roll.
The only thing I'd look at changing is going to the longer mast and either modify or replace the board. The Shred Sled just isn't a good design and will create bad habits (rigging too big, not pumping effectively).
The bigger wings will work poorly if your wind varies much, they work for steady light wind.
You HAVE to pump the sail.
If you don't at this stage of learning, you will always use too much sail and will always need to sheet out to counter breaching.
OTOH, there are a few decent windfoilers around who use almost the same size sails for both windsurfing and windfoil, in the same wind.
True "16-24" knots, a 3.7 is waaay to big to windfoil my 1150 front foil and 122 Naish.
I easily foil with 3.7, fully overdownhauled, in 14-21 mph winds.
The i99 is a great complement to the 76 so getting one would not be a bad thing, but it's probably a skill issue or a settings issue.
The 75cm recommended by slingshot seems very short from my experience, with the 76 my guess is further back in the track as you have it and maybe closer to 85 or 90 cm. My guess is that you would find 75cm too maneuverable if you did get on the foil.
As others have suggested its probably just about pumping and using a longer mast, even 61cm is too short unless there is zero chop.
Pump the sail to get a bit of board speed then try and pump the foil by stomping with your back foot. Ideally the board will lift and then return to the water and if you add timed bounce just when it hits you will be flying.
An alternative to pumping is to use a bit more sail, bear off the wind, and weight your back foot. If you have enough power it will rise up. The trick is just to level it out before it breaches.
Select to expand quoteLeeD said..
You HAVE to pump the sail.
If you don't at this stage of learning, you will always use too much sail and will always need to sheet out to counter breaching.
OTOH, there are a few decent windfoilers around who use almost the same size sails for both windsurfing and windfoil, in the same wind.
True "16-24" knots, a 3.7 is waaay to big to windfoil my 1150 front foil and 122 Naish.
I easily foil with 3.7, fully overdownhauled, in 14-21 mph winds.
I disagree, Lee. You can learn without pumping and when you know what you are doing you can add it to the mix.
DLee uses a small foil in gusty wind, rigs for the gusts and handles them by sheeting in. Pumping is required in this situation. A big foil wouldn't help because it wouldn't glide through the lulls.
If you are in steady lighter wind with a big foil then yes pumping isn't really required but you're kind of stuck sheeting out if this crank up and getting through really deep lulls isn't possible.
Two different approaches. I've done both and each has strengths. There however isn't a downside to learning how to pump.
After getting the i99 and i76, I would keep the 76 and get some foiling lessons, saving the rest that I would spend on the i99 (unless I got it cheap and used, don't bother with a different rear wing). I weigh ~85kg and it took a lot of effort to teach myself, the i99 did help me some but I rarely use it now.
You can rig big and get away with not pumping, but it is intimidating and more dangerous that way. I did it...
FWIW I can use my 6.6 in 10-12kts with the i76, but I can pump now. I could not, and was utterly confused how to do it when I was learning. Just could not get the motion right. But, I eventually did figure it out. Now I can pump pretty much any board fin or foil that I'm on, and have a better feel for "this is actually possible" vs. "I am wasting my time/muscles/tendons on this pumpfest".
Good lessons will probably save you a lot of frustration, especially if they bring the right gear.
Several days ago, was foiling with a guy 20 lbs lighter than my 160 lbs....72 kg.
He had 4.8 and I had 3.7. His 4.8 barely downhauled, my 3.7 downhauled well beyond max.
Both of us hit or miss on foiling jibes..
He fell maybe 20 times, never once uphauled.
I fell several times, never waterstarted.
We foiled up in the same breeze, gliding about the same.
He, i76 1500 sqs. Me 1150 Naish.
Yeah, agree with LeeD, the AFS F1080 cm2 wing is as big as I have gone, and is as big as I'll go.
I weigh 90kg, I fly in 11kts of wind with a Fanatic Flow 1500 (same surface area as the i76), Glide 7 and Alien 125. The i76 is not the problem. Consider a bigger sail or more wind foil orientated board.
I weigh 95kg and use a i76 (B position) on two different boards in Florida. It is plenty of foil. You don't need bigger.
In 11 kts of wind (or 12 kts, realistically) I can fly just fine with a 7.0 Flyer.
I recommend you work on getting a lot more TOF (time on foil) to simply get the muscle memory. Nothing wrong with planing the board before the foil flies. In fact, planing the board first is my default method. Then it is easy to initiate flight.
IF, THAT IS, THE SYSTEM IS BALANCED.
