Wondering if foils specific sails are that much better for freeride foiling?
The general consensus seems to be any sail will get you foiling but it's not till you use a foil specific sail do you know what you're missing, backing this up is most of the major brands producing foil specific sails and the team riders a ripping on them.
In a lot of the videos upload here by the highly skilled "average joes" (no offence ??) they seem to be doing their thing on wave/freestyle sails at a level I'd be super happy if I could reach.
What are your thoughts, if you were in the market for a new set of sails would you limit yourself to foil specific stuff?
I got a 2 cam 7m foil sail, it is a lot lighter than a freeride sail, and all made of x-ply. I use it for the lightest wind on big foil wings. All other smaller sails are cammed or wave sails. I love the koncept 5.8 and 4.4 3 cams, still pretty light in the hands: compared to the wave sails are a lot more stable in the gusts and powerful in the lulls.
For me - 6 and above, it matters. Below 6, not so much. Not to say that there aren't some benefits from some of the foil specific sails below 6 but for my riding, it won't really matter much.
There are some specific purpose foil specific sails below 6 that are super helpful. Race, low batten count cambered freeride, etc.
Some of it will depend on where you foil and what style.
I'm suppose I'm really asking about sails in the sub 5m range for flat water with good wind chop 
or rolling swells 
in15+knots. I'm currently using older wave sails with no real complaints.
When I changed my 8.2 4 cam race sail for an 8.5 foil dedicated sail, I noticed a big improvement in many aspects. My 3.7 and 4.8 sails are wave sails (fringe and sailworks revo) and I am quite happy with them for free riding. I don't see myself buying dedicated foil sails in that small size.
The early freeride foil sails where not a great upgrade over regular wave or freestyle sails in small sizes, which is where I think the consensus that freeride foil sails do not add a lot
I have not tried any of the newer freeride foil sails eg severne foil freek. Maybe they are awesome, but I am happy with what my sails are doing, its probably more important to rig your sails appropriately for foil than what you ride. If you are having average success with your current sails I would think that you are not being held back by them. More likely you will get more out of focusing on your foil set up
A bit off topic, but I think updating a foil will bring more gains than updating a sail. There's been heaps of improvement in foil designs in the last year or so.
Foil specific sails will help a lot with stability if you are into going fast GPS etc..
Select to expand quotePanno said..
I'm suppose I'm really asking about sails in the sub 5m range for flat water with good wind chop or rolling swells in15+knots. I'm currently using older wave sails with no real complaints.
I don't think there'll be much benefit to a foil sail for that kind of riding.
Most of the freeride foilers over here have bought a foil specific freeride sail for those days when the wind is light but they still want to go out for a cruise (emphasis on the word cruise), which to me makes sense.
The tighter leech/higher aspect probably would be more of a hinderance than a help when you're ripping around on wind swells.
One thing about for-foiling sails is that they push DOWN instead of UP when a gust hits. My old slalom sails (which push UP) used to cause me to foil out too easily in gusts. I now have some for-foiling sails (Flyers) and some foiling-compatible (Fringes) sails. These put more cloth up high and keep the leech tight up there to help push DOWN.
See this:
Andy Brandt of ABK Board Sports recommended I get wave sails for foiling because they are ON/OFF in terms of power. I do have a 4.5 Aerotech Phantom and it is easy to use because of that. My Areotech no cam Freespeed sails 5.8/7.2/8.0 work great for foiling, 100% X-ply and light but very durable (have hit sails many times with hands and knees with no damage), but the power let off is not so abrupt when sheeting out, so have to be more careful in gusty conditions.
Freeride foil boards are all coming with compact geometry because that keeps the effect of mast base pressure minimized and also reduces rake which allows sails to maintain downward pressure. It's only when the mast base is moved forward rather than the sailor using front foot pressure that this becomes an issue.
As with many things correcting technique will allow you to use a variety of equipment across a variety of conditions rather than having to chase "ideal" setups be they foil sizes, sail types or line lengths.
Grant has a very important point there about geometry and front foot pressure. He, and many others, like to bias their foot pressure far to the front, say, 70%, he once mentioned. This is fine, but my old thighs can't take it for very long.
The thing about compact geometry to keep the sail more upright and be less prone to pitch porpoising is pretty important. Also less prone to porpoising when you luff the sail and turn the power on and off. I think it matters quite a lot in ocean conditions where you are constantly moving around and changing direction on the waves. It also makes for easier jibing.
For flat water (yes, the Gorge has flat water in many spots), the conventional geometry of sail mast base 42" in front of the strut leading edge and front wing at the mid point between feet, works for me and does not burn out my legs.
But, oh my, foil designs have gotten so much better and more fun over the past couple years.
Foil specific freeride sails like the Ezzy Hydra will give advantage in low wind and in high wind.
More power in the low, especially response to pumping. This will allow you to use a smaller sail size.
In the high end more control and less breakouts as in the video Segler posted.
Basically you have a much bigger range than normal sails.
For smaller size wave sails I don't know. I don't have experience but for 6-7 m2 sails this applies.
My .02
My 2 cam 4.5 sailworks flyer is my favorite. Has a pretty wide range and is lightweight. Goes upwind great. Can really crank upwind when overpowered to maintain control. I also have 2 no cam wave sails. A 5.2 and 3.6 fringe. The 5.2 is hard for me to manage in my variable winds. The 3.6 is a lot easier, but ithe wind needs to be consistenty high to keep from slogging.
It has a much narrower wind range. I think I would like it more if we had consistently high winds. There is not much sail below the boom and I can't generate the kind of speed or sail as high into the wind as I can with the flyer. I wish they made a smaller flyer, but I have to go with a smaller sail when the winds get over 24 knots, so wave sail it is.
