My Aerotech Freespeed 8.0 can be rigged with either a 460 (Powerex Z-speed 100%) or 490 (Epic 100%) mast. Normally use 460, but lately decided to try it out with 490. Only tried once so do not want to say anything. But wondering if anyone else has done something similar and has noticed a difference.
Thanks
I know some of the lighter pros on the PWA use the 490 mast and a 40 cm mast extender in the 9m HGO's to soften them up a bit. Its what i use as well.
Select to expand quoteMaddlad said..
I know some of the lighter pros on the PWA use the 490 mast and a 40 cm mast extender in the 9m HGO's to soften them up a bit. Its what i use as well.
Interesting. For the reference the HGO mast is a 530. A lot of the pros that are similar weight to me (I'm currently ~90kg, which is a bit heavy for my size) run +2 to +4cm downhaul on those sails. Not much to add to this thread otherwise.
Select to expand quoteMaddlad said..
I know some of the lighter pros on the PWA use the 490 mast and a 40 cm mast extender in the 9m HGO's to soften them up a bit. Its what i use as well.
Interesting, thanks Maddlad.
My 2018 Flyer 7.0 rigs on either a 430 or 460 (462 luff). The 430 is the preferred mast via Sailworks but at my 100kg weight the 460 is more stable, more powerful and has a higher top end. On the 430 it's got more palpable spring for pumping, and is of course much easier to downhaul. Best overall is 430 base and 460 top (both are NoLimitz) which gives better pumping feel than pure 460 and more power than pure 430. I'l usually run it like that unless the wind is such that I think I might have to change down to 5.2 or 5.7 both of which use the 430.
My 10.0 Hotsails Speedfreak is designed for 490+30 in either RDM or SDM but sails much better for me on a 520 SDM. It does require a crank to downhaul on that mast though.
Select to expand quoteAwalkspoiled said..
My 2018 Flyer 7.0 rigs on either a 430 or 460 (462 luff). The 430 is the preferred mast via Sailworks but at my 100kg weight the 460 is more stable, more powerful and has a higher top end. On the 430 it's got more palpable spring for pumping, and is of course much easier to downhaul. Best overall is 430 base and 460 top (both are NoLimitz) which gives better pumping feel than pure 460 and more power than pure 430. I'l usually run it like that unless the wind is such that I think I might have to change down to 5.2 or 5.7 both of which use the 430.
My 10.0 Hotsails Speedfreak is designed for 490+30 in either RDM or SDM but sails much better for me on a 520 SDM. It does require a crank to downhaul on that mast though.
Thanks Awalkspoiled, first time out with 8.0 and 490 got caught by gusts while on the water (got distracted) and dropped the sail, that has not happened in a long time with 460 even when a jet-ski or something distracted me. So it felt like it was catching and holding more wind with 490, and it seemed like I got up with less pumping, but first time so will see.
I always use a crank, makes it easier to adjust tension based on leech.
Had back to back days of similar wind, first day on 8.0 Freespeed with 490 cm mast, second day on 8.0 with 460 cm mast. With 460 mast felt like I was running next size down sail! Only problem with 490 was a seam on top of the bottom batten started to pull apart at the luff sleeve end, hence 460 on 2nd day.
Would 490 put more stress on lowest sail panel/batten?
Select to expand quoteaeroegnr said..Maddlad said..
I know some of the lighter pros on the PWA use the 490 mast and a 40 cm mast extender in the 9m HGO's to soften them up a bit. Its what i use as well.
Interesting. For the reference the HGO mast is a 530. A lot of the pros that are similar weight to me (I'm currently ~90kg, which is a bit heavy for my size) run +2 to +4cm downhaul on those sails. Not much to add to this thread otherwise.
@Aeroegnr, do they run +2-4 cm more downhaul, to really open up the sail, or do they set the base extension to +2-4 cm and then leave a gap between the pulleys?
Select to expand quoteFormuIa said..aeroegnr said..Maddlad said..
I know some of the lighter pros on the PWA use the 490 mast and a 40 cm mast extender in the 9m HGO's to soften them up a bit. Its what i use as well.
Interesting. For the reference the HGO mast is a 530. A lot of the pros that are similar weight to me (I'm currently ~90kg, which is a bit heavy for my size) run +2 to +4cm downhaul on those sails. Not much to add to this thread otherwise.
@Aeroegnr, do they run +2-4 cm more downhaul, to really open up the sail, or do they set the base extension to +2-4 cm and then leave a gap between the pulleys?
They run +2 at least. One of the guys told me he goes up to +4 to loosen the leech. I'm wary of that as I've broken two masts and run +2 usually. There's a big difference in feel in stock +0 and +2 when the wind is over 12 knots. They were also out in France in ridiculous wind, have reinforced clews, etc.
They have adjustable downhaul with a lot of leverage to get it exactly where they want.
Had back to back days of similar wind, first day on 8.0 Freespeed with 490 cm mast, second day on 8.0 with 460 cm mast. With 460 mast felt like I was running next size down sail! Only problem with 490 was a seam on top of the bottom batten started to pull apart at the luff sleeve end, hence 460 on 2nd day.
Would 490 put more stress on lowest sail panel/batten?
Select to expand quoteSandman1221 said..
Had back to back days of similar wind, first day on 8.0 Freespeed with 490 cm mast, second day on 8.0 with 460 cm mast. With 460 mast felt like I was running next size down sail! Only problem with 490 was a seam on top of the bottom batten started to pull apart at the luff sleeve end, hence 460 on 2nd day.
Would 490 put more stress on lowest sail panel/batten?
Sure, somewhat. There will be more shape in the sail with the stiffer mast but I think the big factor would be higher downhaul tension. Might be worth using something like a spare mast extension as a come-along for downhauling occasionally, because using a crank you mightn't realize how much higher the tension really is.
Select to expand quoteAwalkspoiled said..Sandman1221 said..
Would 490 put more stress on lowest sail panel/batten?
Sure, somewhat. There will be more shape in the sail with the stiffer mast but I think the big factor would be higher downhaul tension.
indeed -- think of it like this: the longer/stiffer mast will be harder to bend than the shorter/softer mast, leading to both a deeper profile and more tension in the body of the sail all else being equal
btw, I don't think a few cm more downhaul will cause a mast to break; if it breaks it would have broken without the additional downhaul, with point loading and (especially) baking in the heat (or ofc a production defect) being much more likely culprits of carbon mast breakage
Select to expand quoteAwalkspoiled said..Sandman1221 said..
Had back to back days of similar wind, first day on 8.0 Freespeed with 490 cm mast, second day on 8.0 with 460 cm mast. With 460 mast felt like I was running next size down sail! Only problem with 490 was a seam on top of the bottom batten started to pull apart at the luff sleeve end, hence 460 on 2nd day.
Would 490 put more stress on lowest sail panel/batten?
Sure, somewhat. There will be more shape in the sail with the stiffer mast but I think the big factor would be higher downhaul tension. Might be worth using something like a spare mast extension as a come-along for downhauling occasionally, because using a crank you mightn't realize how much higher the tension really is.
Thanks Awalkspoiled.
Select to expand quotebel29 said..Awalkspoiled said..Sandman1221 said..
Would 490 put more stress on lowest sail panel/batten?
Sure, somewhat. There will be more shape in the sail with the stiffer mast but I think the big factor would be higher downhaul tension.
indeed -- think of it like this: the longer/stiffer mast will be harder to bend than the shorter/softer mast, leading to both a deeper profile and more tension in the body of the sail all else being equal
btw, I don't think a few cm more downhaul will cause a mast to break; if it breaks it would have broken without the additional downhaul, with point loading and (especially) baking in the heat (or ofc a production defect) being much more likely culprits of carbon mast breakage
Thanks bel29
Thinking my "past" over-tensioning of the battens may have contributed to the seam visibly starting to pull apart now, probably started a while ago and the 490 mast just made it more noticeable. Used black Gorilla tape to keep it from getting worse, and that is working for now with lower batten tension.
It mostly depends on your weight, water state and what you are looking for.
I?m 75kg. I do sail in a spot with VOODOO CHOP. I prefer a softer mast that depowers early and in a more progressive manner. Effort center will be a little back too, doing a finer entry sail profile that helps to go upwind but this EC will move as wind increases because softer mast is used. Stiffer masts move the EC forward and makes the sail much more fluttering, usually looking for more stable-fixed profile.
Soft masts are widely used for low wind and hard ones for higher winds.
What YOU DON?T HAVE TODO IS RIS A UNDER TENSIONNED SAIL. If you need more power get a bigger sail ;)
I use 6.8sqm + 90lts old school slalom board + 32cm fin when my friends (+80kgs) ride on 95lts Freewave boards + 5.3sqm wave sails....
The experience is sublime HAHAHA. I do have MORE CONTROL than them with a LOT MORE OF SPEED using a proper trimmed rig (Soft mast on my NORTH WARP sail due my weight with amounts of downhaul).
I do even trim my wave rigs on this wave ;)
It mostly depends on your weight, water state and what you are looking for.
I?m 75kg. I do sail in a spot with VOODOO CHOP. I prefer a softer mast that depowers early and in a more progressive manner. Effort center will be a little back too, doing a finer entry sail profile that helps to go upwind but this EC will move as wind increases because softer mast is used. Stiffer masts move the EC forward and makes the sail much more fluttering, usually looking for more stable-fixed profile.
Soft masts are widely used for low wind and hard ones for higher winds.
What YOU DON?T HAVE TODO IS RIS A UNDER TENSIONNED SAIL. If you need more power get a bigger sail ;)
I use 6.8sqm + 90lts old school slalom board + 32cm fin when my friends (+80kgs) ride on 95lts Freewave boards + 5.3sqm wave sails....
The experience is sublime HAHAHA. I do have MORE CONTROL than them with a LOT MORE OF SPEED using a proper trimmed rig (Soft mast on my NORTH WARP sail due my weight with amounts of downhaul).
I do even trim my wave rigs on this wave ;)
Select to expand quotepimalu said..
It mostly depends on your weight, water state and what you are looking for.
I?m 75kg. I do sail in a spot with VOODOO CHOP. I prefer a softer mast that depowers early and in a more progressive manner. Effort center will be a little back too, doing a finer entry sail profile that helps to go upwind but this EC will move as wind increases because softer mast is used. Stiffer masts move the EC forward and makes the sail much more fluttering, usually looking for more stable-fixed profile.
Soft masts are widely used for low wind and hard ones for higher winds.
What YOU DON?T HAVE TODO IS RIS A UNDER TENSIONNED SAIL. If you need more power get a bigger sail ;)
I use 6.8sqm + 90lts old school slalom board + 32cm fin when my friends (+80kgs) ride on 95lts Freewave boards + 5.3sqm wave sails....
The experience is sublime HAHAHA. I do have MORE CONTROL than them with a LOT MORE OF SPEED using a proper trimmed rig (Soft mast on my NORTH WARP sail due my weight with amounts of downhaul).
I do even trim my wave rigs on this wave ;)
Interesting comments on fining, thanks, I am doing this when foiling and the stiffer mast seems to make sail pumping much more efficient, once in the air do not need a powerful sail.
I use the Pryde V8 flight, there is definitely a step up in balance and top end when using the longer mast option. The 7m takes either 460sdm or 490sdm I now only rig on the longer mast, but with that in mind I am 95 kgs dry so nearer 100 with all the gear required for English winter sailing.
My 8.3 S_Type (3 cams) can be used with both 460 and 490 masts. Tried with each and could not tell the difference.
As mentioned above the newer 5-batten Sailworks Flyer 7.0 fits both 430 and 460 masts.
I was out on the Columbia two summers ago with my 430 mast, and a friend (same sail, same weight, same skill level, same foil) had his 460. It was gusty and hard to dial in. His sail was MUCH quieter than mine on the water. It took me 4 seconds to decide to get a 460. I did and have not regretted it.
At my 200 lb weight, I will always tend toward the longer mast if there are options.
