Select to expand quoteMaxeeboy said..
way to go, that should silence some doubters :-)
I let this vid do the talking.
Select to expand quoteMaxeeboy said..
perhaps some red paint on the board might end this.
nothing to do with red paint, i like DJ's posts but feel he looks way better on a more rocked board and if you watch both vids you will see that. I'm stoked DJ likes his new board and thats the main thing but for most people wanting a good DW board i would say good luck. Just MO on this OPEN forum and only trying to compare apples to apples or Naish to Naish.
Look at how long DJ's glides are in the 2nd vid they go forever and the board just fits for me i like it, but as i say this is just MO and if you really like the way it looks then go and buy one and have fun!!
I have Jacko, had 2 sessions on the flat & can't wait to get into the DW season.
I think I'm with you Jacko, 2nd vid looks like the board is yes more foot work required but sits clean and fast on the bumps. 1st vid looks like it doesn't catch the bumps aswell.
am I right in saying DJ those conditions on ur new vid weren't great?? 40kn awesome but did look really messy were 2nd vid looks a lot cleaner swell direction..
You downwind both boards awesome and you do such a good job of promoting downwinding for us all to learn off.
Great vid
Good to see it out in some wind DJ.
So, this board is supposed to be about 13kg, and in the past you've talked about the benefits of the heavy 16kg 2014 Glide GS... just wondering now what your thoughts are now? do you notice the weight difference?
these new javs are interesting in the fact that there are some many conflicting reports coming through the grapevine.
I must have a paddle myself sometime as its seems the only way i'm going to be able to workout what's what- well for me anyway
Can you really compare a V2 Glide with a 2015 Javelin? The V2 Glide was a full-on downwind board made a little bit more friendly (than the original Glide) for flat water. The Javelin is a flat water board that can be used for downwind, isn't it?
I don't think that what Naish is doing here with their distance boards is following a strategy of updating the previous year's shapes, like e.g. Fanatic have done this year. Instead, Naish are producing quite different boards. This may make financial sense because few people other than sponsored riders (and brand obsessives like DJ) are going to buy a new board from a particular brand every year. So the best way to try to part people from their money might be to offer boards that are capable in different ways each year. One consequence of this is that it will be difficult, if not fruitless, to directly compare boards from one year to another in terms of one particular use (e.g, downwind only) like is being done here.
No-one would have thought it particularly valid last year to compare a 2013-4 Glide to a 2012-3 Javelin (or perhaps even a 2013-4 one). And so I'm not sure what we can learn from comparing a 2013-4 Glide to a 2015 Javelin. The V2 Glide is/was a fast downwind board for sure, and one that was quite specialized to downwind. It is not clear to me that the primary agenda for the new Javelin is downwind. The market for specialised DW boards is pretty small compared with the flat water market, so most manufacturers are going to have their eyes on inland flat water these days, I should think. Testing a V2 Naish GX back-to-back with the 2015 Jav 14x28 LE in small downwind conditions left me in little doubt that the older Glide was faster downwind in those conditions. But then again it was also less stable, and the V2 Glide is quite a technical board to ride in big DW conditions. I got the impression that the wide Jav would be easier, unless you are very skilled. It seems to me that the most obvious likely success of the Jav for 2015 will be to resurrect the model label by getting rid of the "tippy" and "difficult to ride" reputation. The 28" wide Jav felt to me almost more like a big stable cruiser - and it looks a bit like that in DJ's video here. A flat water raceboard for really big guys, or a fairly well-mannered and stable DW board for those who aren't Kai Lenny.
Incidentally, the new 30" wide Glide 14 looked very nice when I saw one recently. It's humongous of course, but if you are a really big guy or want massive stability I should think it would be great. It's a shame that it doesn't also come in a narrower and lighter version because it looks really nice. One of the past criticisms of Naish is that they've not been producing boards for bigger people. Well, they certainly have this year. With brass bells on.
Select to expand quoteArea10 said..
And so I'm not sure what we can learn from comparing a 2013-4 Glide to a 2015 Javelin. The V2 Glide is/was a fast downwind board for sure, and one that was quite specialized to downwind.
Isn't the V2 Glide 2012-13, and V3 2014? To me the new Jav actually seems like the replacement for the 2014 Glide GX, which I presume was discontinued as it would still complete pretty strongly with the new Jav.
What we can learn from comparing them is determining whether DJ thinks it's better or not for downwinding in his neck of the woods than his old board.
Select to expand quotefoamballer said..Area10 said..
And so I'm not sure what we can learn from comparing a 2013-4 Glide to a 2015 Javelin. The V2 Glide is/was a fast downwind board for sure, and one that was quite specialized to downwind.
Isn't the V2 Glide 2012-13, and V3 2014? To me the new Jav actually seems like the replacement for the 2014 Glide GX, which I presume was discontinued as it would still complete pretty strongly with the new Jav.
What we can learn from comparing them is determining whether DJ thinks it's better or not for downwinding in his neck of the woods than his old board.
Oops sorry, yes of course the V2 Glide is 2012-3 and that is the one I meant. I have no idea what version the 2015 Javelin is...
I can't see DJ saying that a new Naish board is worse than an old one... he might not be in the paid employ of Naish, but that is a frank injustice. He probably sells more boards for them than anyone except Mr Robby Naish himself :)
Yes, I think the 2015 Jav is in the spirit of the 2013-4 Glide, rather than being in the spirit of previous Javelins (or Glides before last year's version). It's all a bit confusing! It was easy for me to understand when it was Glide = Ocean, and Javelin = flatwater. But now the edges have got all blurred. The new 30" wide Glide looks like a flat water board for really big guys (although the write-up of it sounds like it is more DW and ocean-oriented), and the new Javelin is being talked about more as a DW board than a flat water one - although the Naish marketing blurb is at pains not to mention any specific use at all.
Has anyone tried the 2015 Glide? All I know is that it is heavy. Nearly 17 kilos for the 30" wide one. Looks great though, shame there isn't a 28" wide version in GX (yet...).
Select to expand quotelaceys lane said..
these new javs are interesting in the fact that there are some many conflicting reports coming through the grapevine.
I must have a paddle myself sometime as its seems the only way i'm going to be able to workout what's what- well for me anyway
Yep, that's right. Do that, and then let us know what you think, please. Cheers.
Paddlezz,
trust me that the more important question is "how much duct tape do you use to attach it?"
And "how long does it take to stick the thing down?"
Select to expand quotepaul.j said..Maxeeboy said..
perhaps some red paint on the board might end this.
nothing to do with red paint, i like DJ's posts but feel he looks way better on a more rocked board and if you watch both vids you will see that. I'm stoked DJ likes his new board and thats the main thing but for most people wanting a good DW board i would say good luck. Just MO on this OPEN forum and only trying to compare apples to apples or Naish to Naish.
Look at how long DJ's glides are in the 2nd vid they go forever and the board just fits for me i like it, but as i say this is just MO and if you really like the way it looks then go and buy one and have fun!!
I have ridden the 26 and 28 Jav and think it would be a strange choice for someone who ONLY DW paddles. BUT, it is excellent in the flats (the 26") and wash rides really nicely, and is really fun on a wave.... so if you can only buy one board, but need it to do everything...........?
Im sure if jacko did a DW vid on a flat water he would get some feedback saying he looked better and faster on the ocean Falcon. fair enough. So I don't think Jacko is having a dig at the board he is stating the obvious I would have thought. same comments would come out from people if he tried to DW a flat water....
yep that 14 x 26 feels so slick, is like a knife through butter, picks up small wash, and is very stable, even in choppy conditions..it was liberating to try it at the Naish day. I think for DW the key is the be moving about , and back, to make sure the nose doesn't submerge and thus avoid that "am I going over the handlebars" feeling that I felt. For mere mortals like me who only want to afford one 14' board to do all conditions, and for both DW and flatwater, the 26 would be my choice out of any board on the market due to it's clear flatwater speed, and stability even in rough water.[I'm 89kg and 6'2' FYI]
The New Jav is not a flat water board! It is a all conditions board. Its very quick in flat and picks up runners and down winds just as good.
The ease to pick up runners and the acceleration on the Jav is remarkable. When the Jav picks up a runner the acceleration can take you buy surprise and it dose take a little to get used to. You can see this in some of DJs vids he almost gets left behind off the back of the board! Once you get used to this it leaves you wanting more and more of it!
We have Demo Javs 26 and 28 in store for any one who would like to give it a try.
Select to expand quotePaddlezz said..
Hi DJ,
what is the height and the width of your CAM rack??
Just measured it.. It's about 66cm high and the T piece on top is about 122cm long.
I have a few different short end pieces that I sometimes use.
Select to expand quoteOceanAddicts said...
The New Jav is not a flat water board! It is a all conditions board. Its very quick in flat and picks up runners and down winds just as good.
Thanks for your views. But compared to what? This isn't very helpful unless you can describe its performance in relation to another board. It's the sort of claim any retailer would make about any board they sell. That is not to say that I don't believe you, only that I'd need a little more detail to be convinced. I think this could be done without getting into a brand war.
ahhh, yes the all conditions board but master of none. no board can.
i class the lahui kai manta as the best all round board out there. pretty fast in the flats- but not rocket speed, good in chop, does bop really well, dw s but not its strongest point imo. up against specialized dw boards it gets shown up. its not bad ,just not as good as the best dw boards.
I expect this jav to do much the same.
Lacey are you talking about the 14' Lahui Kai Manta? Not many people have tried this board as there has only been a 12'6 production board readily available (unless you ordered a custom). I tried the new 14' production carbon Manta a few weeks ago both up and down wind in the ocean and I was pretty impressed with its speed and ability to pick up runners. I was also impressed with the Jav 14 x 26 but I only paddled it on flat water in light wind.
Select to expand quoteAA said..
Lacey are you talking about the 14' Lahui Kai Manta? Not many people have tried this board as there has only been a 12'6 production board readily available (unless you ordered a custom). I tried the new 14' production carbon Manta a few weeks ago both up and down wind in the ocean and I was pretty impressed with its speed and ability to pick up runners. I was also impressed with the Jav 14 x 26 but I only paddled it on flat water in light wind.
imo its or they are the best all round boards on the market. yes it dw s very well. now im absolutely nit picking when i say its not the best of the best dw boards.
more to the point. i don't believe any board with a reverse nose is going to be a top notch dw board whether it be a lh, naish sb or so on.
that's because no matter how well they go under' its going to be a touch slower doing that and when the nose is under is good bye to steering the board into bumps because the board is locked into the line where the nose went under and for me what just not on
Select to expand quoteAA said..
Lacey are you talking about the 14' Lahui Kai Manta? Not many people have tried this board as there has only been a 12'6 production board readily available (unless you ordered a custom). I tried the new 14' production carbon Manta a few weeks ago both up and down wind in the ocean and I was pretty impressed with its speed and ability to pick up runners. I was also impressed with the Jav 14 x 26 but I only paddled it on flat water in light wind.
imo its or they are the best all round boards on the market. yes it dw s very well. now im absolutely nit picking when i say its not the best of the best dw boards.
more to the point. i don't believe any board with a reverse nose is going to be a top notch dw board whether it be a lh, naish sb or so on.
that's because no matter how well they go under' its going to be a touch slower doing that and when the nose is under is good bye to steering the board into bumps because the board is locked into the line where the nose went under and for me what just not on
Select to expand quotelaceys lane said..AA said..
Lacey are you talking about the 14' Lahui Kai Manta? Not many people have tried this board as there has only been a 12'6 production board readily available (unless you ordered a custom). I tried the new 14' production carbon Manta a few weeks ago both up and down wind in the ocean and I was pretty impressed with its speed and ability to pick up runners. I was also impressed with the Jav 14 x 26 but I only paddled it on flat water in light wind.
imo its or they are the best all round boards on the market. yes it dw s very well. now im absolutely nit picking when i say its not the best of the best dw boards.
more to the point. i don't believe any board with a reverse nose is going to be a top notch dw board whether it be a lh, naish sb or so on.
that's because no matter how well they go under' its going to be a touch slower doing that and when the nose is under is good bye to steering the board into bumps because the board is locked into the line where the nose went under and for me what just not on
The previous generation Javelin LE also had reverse nose and to my knowledge that is one of the most successful downwind boards ever made in the 14ft class - it has the Molokai course record, won the Gorge, the Cape Town Dwd series etc etc. None of the Unlimited boards used in Hawaii have boof noses (nor reverse)
What happens when the nose goes under has a lot more to do with what is going on behind the nose - ie the rocker, volume and bottom shape. The 2014 Glide is also reverse nose and it is one of the most forgiving dwd boards I've ever ridden. The question is whether we are debating the same requirements, easy of use is often fast but not necessarily, just as hard to use is sometimes fast, but not necessarily.
The key to being fast is a board that can utilise as much of its waterline when catching a run without bogging the nose, once you bog the nose you are going to be slower whether its a boof or reverse nose. I concur with Jackos statement about this - you want to go over the bumbs and with the required widths of SUP's you cannot go through the bumbs like the surfskis do. A boof nose might feel more forgiving when engaging, but its going to be slow if it engages, a reverse nose might want to steer the board to some extent but the narrower entry means the loss of speed is reduced - hence recovery might be better and you don't lose the bump.
The best downwind paddlers hardly ever bog the nose as they anticipate it happening and correct in time by getting back on board.
Noone has managed to go fast in our dwd conditions with a boof nose - not sure if that is because only Starboard and Fanatic has them, but Dylan is one of our quickest paddlers and he never uses the Ace - also possibly because we have more surfing 25knot plus conditions where a wider tail seems to be more important than perhaps the shape of the nose.
It seems in your mainly lighter downwinds the Ace and Fanatic boof design works very well - my guess (without having tried one yet) is that the new 2015 Javelin is going to be an excellent allrounder and should match the boof designs in lighter downwinds no problem.
The difficulty with downwinding is that it is so technical that a good rider will beat an average rider for speed on pretty much any board out there.....so it can become really hard to pin down where a board is quicker. Forgiving is a little easier to ascertain.
Select to expand quotePeterP said..laceys lane said..AA said..
Lacey are you talking about the 14' Lahui Kai Manta? Not many people have tried this board as there has only been a 12'6 production board readily available (unless you ordered a custom). I tried the new 14' production carbon Manta a few weeks ago both up and down wind in the ocean and I was pretty impressed with its speed and ability to pick up runners. I was also impressed with the Jav 14 x 26 but I only paddled it on flat water in light wind.
imo its or they are the best all round boards on the market. yes it dw s very well. now im absolutely nit picking when i say its not the best of the best dw boards.
more to the point. i don't believe any board with a reverse nose is going to be a top notch dw board whether it be a lh, naish sb or so on.
that's because no matter how well they go under' its going to be a touch slower doing that and when the nose is under is good bye to steering the board into bumps because the board is locked into the line where the nose went under and for me what just not on
The previous generation Javelin LE also had reverse nose and to my knowledge that is one of the most successful downwind boards ever made in the 14ft class - it has the Molokai course record, won the Gorge, the Cape Town Dwd series etc etc. None of the Unlimited boards used in Hawaii have boof noses (nor reverse)
What happens when the nose goes under has a lot more to do with what is going on behind the nose - ie the rocker, volume and bottom shape. The 2014 Glide is also reverse nose and it is one of the most forgiving dwd boards I've ever ridden. The question is whether we are debating the same requirements, easy of use is often fast but not necessarily, just as hard to use is sometimes fast, but not necessarily.
The key to being fast is a board that can utilise as much of its waterline when catching a run without bogging the nose, once you bog the nose you are going to be slower whether its a boof or reverse nose. I concur with Jackos statement about this - you want to go over the bumbs and with the required widths of SUP's you cannot go through the bumbs like the surfskis do. A boof nose might feel more forgiving when engaging, but its going to be slow if it engages, a reverse nose might want to steer the board to some extent but the narrower entry means the loss of speed is reduced - hence recovery might be better and you don't lose the bump.
The best downwind paddlers hardly ever bog the nose as they anticipate it happening and correct in time by getting back on board.
Noone has managed to go fast in our dwd conditions with a boof nose - not sure if that is because only Starboard and Fanatic has them, but Dylan is one of our quickest paddlers and he never uses the Ace - also possibly because we have more surfing 25knot plus conditions where a wider tail seems to be more important than perhaps the shape of the nose.
It seems in your mainly lighter downwinds the Ace and Fanatic boof design works very well - my guess (without having tried one yet) is that the new 2015 Javelin is going to be an excellent allrounder and should match the boof designs in lighter downwinds no problem.
The difficulty with downwinding is that it is so technical that a good rider will beat an average rider for speed on pretty much any board out there.....so it can become really hard to pin down where a board is quicker. Forgiving is a little easier to ascertain.
With respect PeterP, you are clearly evaluating the board's performance in terms of fastest DW board for racing. That's not the same as the most fun DW board, largely because DW racing in my opinion is never as much fun as DW just for the sheer pleasure of it all. I'm also gradually coming to the conclusion that the downwind board designs from 4 years ago were actually more fun than the rocket ships of today. Somewhere along the path we seem to have lost a bit of the magic of downwind in trying to turn it all into a battle to be fastest, to get off the water first - does anyone see the fundamental flaw in that logic?
Select to expand quotePTWoody said..PeterP said..laceys lane said..AA said..
Lacey are you talking about the 14' Lahui Kai Manta? Not many people have tried this board as there has only been a 12'6 production board readily available (unless you ordered a custom). I tried the new 14' production carbon Manta a few weeks ago both up and down wind in the ocean and I was pretty impressed with its speed and ability to pick up runners. I was also impressed with the Jav 14 x 26 but I only paddled it on flat water in light wind.
imo its or they are the best all round boards on the market. yes it dw s very well. now im absolutely nit picking when i say its not the best of the best dw boards.
more to the point. i don't believe any board with a reverse nose is going to be a top notch dw board whether it be a lh, naish sb or so on.
that's because no matter how well they go under' its going to be a touch slower doing that and when the nose is under is good bye to steering the board into bumps because the board is locked into the line where the nose went under and for me what just not on
The previous generation Javelin LE also had reverse nose and to my knowledge that is one of the most successful downwind boards ever made in the 14ft class - it has the Molokai course record, won the Gorge, the Cape Town Dwd series etc etc. None of the Unlimited boards used in Hawaii have boof noses (nor reverse)
What happens when the nose goes under has a lot more to do with what is going on behind the nose - ie the rocker, volume and bottom shape. The 2014 Glide is also reverse nose and it is one of the most forgiving dwd boards I've ever ridden. The question is whether we are debating the same requirements, easy of use is often fast but not necessarily, just as hard to use is sometimes fast, but not necessarily.
The key to being fast is a board that can utilise as much of its waterline when catching a run without bogging the nose, once you bog the nose you are going to be slower whether its a boof or reverse nose. I concur with Jackos statement about this - you want to go over the bumbs and with the required widths of SUP's you cannot go through the bumbs like the surfskis do. A boof nose might feel more forgiving when engaging, but its going to be slow if it engages, a reverse nose might want to steer the board to some extent but the narrower entry means the loss of speed is reduced - hence recovery might be better and you don't lose the bump.
The best downwind paddlers hardly ever bog the nose as they anticipate it happening and correct in time by getting back on board.
Noone has managed to go fast in our dwd conditions with a boof nose - not sure if that is because only Starboard and Fanatic has them, but Dylan is one of our quickest paddlers and he never uses the Ace - also possibly because we have more surfing 25knot plus conditions where a wider tail seems to be more important than perhaps the shape of the nose.
It seems in your mainly lighter downwinds the Ace and Fanatic boof design works very well - my guess (without having tried one yet) is that the new 2015 Javelin is going to be an excellent allrounder and should match the boof designs in lighter downwinds no problem.
The difficulty with downwinding is that it is so technical that a good rider will beat an average rider for speed on pretty much any board out there.....so it can become really hard to pin down where a board is quicker. Forgiving is a little easier to ascertain.
With respect PeterP, you are clearly evaluating the board's performance in terms of fastest DW board for racing. That's not the same as the most fun DW board, largely because DW racing in my opinion is never as much fun as DW just for the sheer pleasure of it all. I'm also gradually coming to the conclusion that the downwind board designs from 4 years ago were actually more fun than the rocket ships of today. Somewhere along the path we seem to have lost a bit of the magic of downwind in trying to turn it all into a battle to be fastest, to get off the water first - does anyone see the fundamental flaw in that logic?
with due respect the le had rocker.yes a bit of a reverse nose but the two designs a radically different .
and from what i've read and been told by le owners they went best when everything was behind you.
most times where we live that doesn't happen making the board very difficult to use.
as i have said before i like the look of the board and need to have a paddle on it myself
Great vid.
