Hi all,
I have been surfing for around 25 years on both shortboards & mals. I haven't really had too much interest in SUP's in the past, but a recent shoulder injury and the fact that I'm fast approaching 40 has made me start to think they may not be a bad option. I have had four or five sessions playing around on SUP's on flat water and had no problems at all (an Allwave & Nalu), so thought I would give surfing one a go.
I hired a SUP from the local shop last weekend (a big 10'2' x 30 NSP thing), and headed off to the beach. Conditions were really good - around stomach/shoulder high waves, super clean with a tiny bit of offshore. I dragged the big barge down the beach to a nice deserted peak and launched.
I fell off paddling out, I fell off whilst waiting out the back for a wave, I fell off when trying to paddle in to waves. Pretty sure I would have fallen off it if I has just tried to stand on it back on the sand?.
I reckon I must have fallen off the bloody thing 100 times. I caught absolutely no waves. Nothing. Zero.
Eventually after 30 minutes or so of torture on the SUP I gave up and went and got my surfboard, and had a really good session after that.
So whilst I now have quite a bit more respect for the SUP'ers I used to laugh at tipping themselves off - the real question is, does it get any easier? Was I a bit optimistic in trying my first surf in those conditions? Was the board a bad choice? Or am I just a fu*#ing gumby?
How long can I realistically it to take before I can expect to catch a few little tiddlers?
I had been pretty close to splashing out and purchasing something like an Allwave, but am now reconsidering. I am not sure I am ready to be going back to feeling like a complete beginner again - I'd love to hear others experiences, please help!
That's a classic :-)
Going straight into the waves for our first SUP session, telling ourselves "I am a surfer, should be easy, paddling is natural, even grandmas in kayaks can do it"... been there, done that!
You first sessions should be on the flat, you will have to learn the paddling technique and how to move around. A good analogy is ice or rollerblades skating: before being able to play games like ice/Roller Hockey, you must learn enough basic skating technique so that moving around becomes automatic, just like running around. This mean that now, you must train with a SUP on the flat water, pretending to catch waves (accelerating, noticing how much row you have, etc...). Just like skating: to play Hockey, just circling the pool wont prepare you enough for a match.
Then your surfing past will come handy, as you will know where to go to get waves, what to do on a wave. But before that, even if you know where to go, you will have to learn how to get there :-)
Normally, learning is quite fast. I'd 3-5 hours for basic paddling to be able to get 1' glassy waves, but try it the hard way (too short a board, sessions in chop) and it can be much, much longer. But there is plenty to learn afterwards, going out through the whitewater notably is a whole lot harder than with a surfboard.
Hello - first go was at Avoca beach - central coast NSW. A mate's wife took my lady and I in waist high surf to learn the basics - mate went to work as the "surf is sh?t". Anyway we got flogged, was not very inspiring at all. Talked to a couple of sup people in our area ( mid north coast ) and the advice was from all and sundry -- do at least 10 to 15 hours of flatwater paddling before you even consider the surf. Made a huge difference - go with an experienced SUP rider and learn paddle technique - get a lesson if possible.
It gets much easier! BUT Be prepared to surf " kiddies corner - pensioners point - beginners bay " for a couple of months, better still paddle up the beach to an uncrowded/deserted break.
Good surfers coming over to SUP and trying to take off and surf among prone surfers, their mates - usually are dangerous .
The problem is that learners tend to fall off a lot, as you know. What about falling off in front of your mates as you get cleaned up by a big set - with 3 metres of board and 3 metres of leash to smash into the crowd inside you.
Your weight will help determine what you should purchase. As a start - since you are an experienced surfer, look at the "fanatic allwave" "Starboard wide point" " Naish mana" "JP Widebody" - check your local dealer for a demo? lesson?
have fun - spend good dollars on a paddle rather than a board when starting.
Steve
Complete beginners viewpoint...
I am a very big guy, who just decided to start SUP in October. Luckily, i am a very accomplished swimmer, confident in the surf despite never having stood on a board before, and i had spent the previous year in an ocean ski.
I bought a Starboard Avanti (very big but surfs really well for its size) and i had it surfing in small stuff within an hour...
The moral is that some of it will come down to board selection. The Avanti is a true beginners board (and may not be suitable for you - you gotta be big to push this thing around) but this board did its job: it got me surfing, fast.
Now, i have just purchased a DW/Flat water board so i have something for all conditions...
So yes, you will stop falling off... the correct board selection will help, for sure...
That's a classic ..... (and very typical story.) I totally understand as I was in a very similar position (& age) about a yr ago. Short board surfing background and took up sup. As others have mentioned you do need a bit of flat water experience to understand the paddling and how it all feels/works. I'm now at the stage that I find sup surfing easier then regularly surfing and a lot more fun as I manage to get heaps more waves per session (wasn't a great surfer to begin with though).
Keep at it , the best thing I love about sup surfing is that even on a crap surf day you can still catch something and have fun, rather then be totally frustrated sitting on a short board waiting for a catchable wave that never comes.
Been there, done.....
The worst thing is that you have to face up to being a kook. There's no way around it. I thought bodysurfing for 5 years after my back injury was sufficient sublimation of the ego, but I was wrong. I was on a sup for at least 2 years before I wasn't embarrassed at my surfing, and it took about three years total to translate my 25+years of surfing into a decent approach to sup wave riding. The single most frustrating thing in the early days to me was reading waves from 6' up rather than water level. They'd break on my head or go straight past. I felt I was in a parallel universe.
Stick at it and that surfing experience will be pretty handy once you find your feet standing up.
My experience as well. A thirty year surf career was no help for the first year A total, usually lost, battle.
Towards the second year, I started to leave kookville. Though in chop it can still make an appearance.
And as well, the hardest part in the beginning was the visual recalibration. Instead of seeing the slope of the
wave during the takeoff from water level, you see a flattened view from 6' up.
Find the patience to get through the first year and you'll be happy.
As everyone else said... you made the classic surfer's mistake.
Every surfer automatically thinks it will be easy because they are experienced. You may be an awesome surfer but if you can't catch the wave you can't surf it.
Spend time on flat water practicing. Take a lesson from a SUP instructor. Your skill level will skyrocket and you'll be in the surf really fast.
One other thing... Once you get into the surf... be nice and share... there's nothing worse than a SUP kook who burns everyone else just because they can.
Most comments have covered it - remember when you started to surf how long it took to master paddling onto waves standing up etc. most (well I did) would have started catching foam and then learning to stand and only then progressing to catching waves.
The mistake (I made) is thinking I've surfed almost 40 years, SUP should be a doddle - well once you're up and riding all the surfing experience does help, but paddling out and waiting for waves (while standing) is a whole new game. The good news is it does get easier with every session. I started on a 10'5" x 30 board and now about 18 months later am riding an 8'7" (I weight 87kgs) as my main board.
Persistence will be rewarded with the stoke that you would have had when you were a grommet surfer.
I admit that watching a mate (who is a very good SB surfer and has been for most of his life) flail around in a 1ft beachy, not being able to catch any of them, and when he did - he instantly buried the edge & came off - brought a smile to my face...a non-surfer (although windsurfer), starting SUPing at the age of 38.
hey damo...
Yes
it does get easier.... pretty fast actually.
the hardest part is paddling into a wave and the acceleration while standing. off the back you go...
I tell first timers this:
paddling into a wave on SUP is NOTHING like surfing
after you catch it and are still on your feet... it IS surfing.
What you may want to try...... as the wave approaches, is slide your back foot out of the parallel stance and into a "modified surf stance". That means, that you move your back foot 6" back and turn your toes toward the rail, till you are in a "semi surfing stance'.... this will give you the front to back stability that you are used to, when dropping in on a surfboard. (don't go full surf stance.... you will lose your side to side stability)
Day 1, I fell 100 times... my daughter was shrieking on the beach and peeing herself I caught ONE wave on my knees and stood up.
Day 2, I caught 3 waves while standing
Day 3, I figured it out and within a week or so, I was very solid on my board. Never surfed a surfboard again.
Just a minor adjustment of how you catch a wave while standing... then it's all good.
Enjoy and report your progress
This thread came at just the right time for me ha ha.
Going to be getting on the flatwater this week, have body boarded, surfed short and longboards, cant wait to add SUP to the list.
Fully prepared to be a newbie again ha ha
Hey damo666 -
I know some of some of this stuff might be pretty obvious but here are my pearls of wisdom.....
The Board – Flat water is one thing, open-ocean is another. Seeing you are falling in so often, go for wide. There is nothing more frustrating than fighting to stay upright all the time. It just takes the pleasure out of it. IMHO the forums tend to point people to boards too small and too narrow for their weight / height. Even if you go bigger than recommended you will still be able to surf it and have great fun as the boards are generally quite light still. The Allwave would be a good stable choice as long as you get the right size. I am 67kg and use an Allwave 9`2 x 31.5” as my main surf SUP, which is bigger than I was recommended. Yet it is no problem at all to surf vigorously - and still nice and stable. Earlier wave catching is another advantage of longer/wider boards as you know, and better for the odd flatwater run as well. Just MHO.
Moving on the board. Until you are ready to walk the nose, try using quick tiny "jumps" to get around - (both feet at a time), particularly when moving between straight ahead paddling, to surf position.
Getting out. When paddling out, getting over white-water can be the challenge. If you go at it standing straight on, it is very difficult not to fall forward or backward when it hits. Just before it hits, point the board straight at it, "jump" into surf stance and power straight into it with some strong paddle strokes. The extra water flowing under the board will help keep you stable as well as having a much more stable stance against it. Then when it passes, you can "jump" back to normal front-on to get out. Stepping on the tail a little to lift the nose will get you over the top of little whities, but if they are bigger, you will need to punch through them.
Catching Waves. Well, you could write a book on this so I won`t say much. The most fundamental things for me was timing and….. stay composed.
As the wave approaches, get some momentum happening with front on stance, but save your big power strokes until the wave begins to pick you up. Try to time your board to "come around" to match the arrival of the wave and paddle with stability/composure as a priority. Use the "jump" method to get into surfing stance.
And... Stick at it!
SUP is awesome!
i am finding very quick progression coming from kiting, windsurfing, bit of surfing.
did ur trick, went straight to beach break first run when pickign an allwave 9"1 up, hardly stayed on the thing. thought i bought too small.
read a few online posts n tips, went to a flat water spot for a weekend, few solid hours working on paddling and turnign and messing round moving feet etc. ok cool back to waves.
3 sessions could not get onto a wave. smashed body trying to get on with brute long strokes.
back to online, learnign tips like how to be in right spot and paddle one side rotating onto wave to be in right direction, short strokes, yew, haven't prone paddled since.
easily get loads of waves in a session now but i am noticing i am trying to turn it like shortboard surfing. need to start using my paddle more on the wave, try and get more vert. fun fun more progresion.
The Allwaves are super easy to catch waves on. i wish i went smaller, but is a fun board for all the family and has gotten me into it super easy.
recon by end of winter will be frothing for something more performance based tho.
such a fun sport, i have almost lost the want to prone surf or kite. shoulder to head high long waves on the sup and you almost feel like you are riding to heavon....
Hi guys,
Thanks very much for all the responses. It?s reassuring to know that my first day out may have been close to the standard newbie SUP experience.
Going from being very confident on a surfboard to a bit of a kook on the SUP is a bit of hit to the old ego, but it sounds like I need to suck it up and keep bloody trying!!
Now to the standard newbie question. I?m tossing up between the two boards I have tested on the lake ? an Allwave (9?2?) and a Nalu (10?6). I am 80kg.
The wife & kids may occasionally use it on flat water, to me both seem to have similar stability on the flat. The Nalu had slightly better glide, but the Allwave gets points as it will fit inside the car and be a little easier to store.
Assuming I eventually get the hang of it, I?m leaning toward the Allwave for its surfing potential.
Is there any great differences I am missing, or anything else to consider?
philosophy wise: life is a journey not a destination
The good thing from not beiing a pro from the start is that you get the sensation again from lerning something new.I used to surf and wavesail at a decent level and loved it when I was learning riding waves on a complete different way.I had especially in the beginning heaps of fun in the ankleslappers where I would normally stay on the beach calling it flat. :)
The same happened last year when I picked up racing. Lots of great water to explore and when its not so perfect weather, the better the training and more to learn. :)
So make sure to enjoy it :)About the boards: The Nalu glides a LOT better and as soon as you get the grip on it, you probably want something smaller and less fat as the allwave so i would go for the naish.I think most of us got a quiver of a longboardish alike board paired with a bit shortboard style board (and some like me 1-2 raceboards as well).
Id say allwave. look on the net at how many people love the allwave. it is not high performance, but it is short, light and super easy to catch waves.
at 80kg id get the 8"11. I wouldnt worry too much bout the wife n kids, my wife got straight on the 9"1 with one of my boys on and started paddling no worries in flat water. no experience in any water activities.
I was tossing up between the 9"1 and 8"11, got told go the larger but i am thinking because that was what was in stock and what most people buy. im about 85kg. could easily handle the 8"11, in fact prob 8"6 now after 2 months of riding as they float easy and get onto waves easy. AND not being heavy the larger the AW board the harder to drive the rail to turn it. For me the allwave is a keeper for fun times, but will get something with thin rails and far less volume for progression and real surfing. dont think you could learn very quickly on a board of that kind tho.
In saying this there are prob a lot of other options about, but i am super happy i went shorter rather than 10" or larger, so big and cumbersome to lug around and turn around on the water too. cant imagine the time it takes to line up and get the nose around to get onto a wave.
You in perth? heard of YOB or Indian ocean paddle? Even Katana? good prices and can offer sizes to suit YOU.
First session on flatwater yesterday - clocked up a couple of km in a marina - legs like jelly afterwards!
First part was into the wind, felt like going no where, was flying on the way back to the car ha ha
Whats wrong with the starboard widepoint 32" 9'5". An awesome board to learn to surf on : stable as a table, surfs well trims and glides across sections and small to medium tubey waves. Not a complaint about it , and if you get to ride a brushed carbon model , thats a real lightweight treat smooth as silk.
Check them out before the impulse purchase.
Don't stress too much about what to get next, as long as you keep learning the basics, don't try to go too small too quick.
You will quickly know what you need as your skill level improves.
If my experience is anything to go by, you will be changing sups more quickly than surf boards.......regularly
I gotta say that there are some old NSP SUPs that surf like absolute dogs
. Demo an Allwave, Nalu, Mana or Widepoint all around 9ft and see how you go. STC's advice about taking off in surfer stance also makes a huge difference because your balance is automatically centered.
For me SUP's are for when it gets under waist high, just another board in the quiver to suit certain waves (small). Took me a couple of goes before I had it sussed, but then I have a Sunover 10'6 x 34 balance which is super stable. Best thing about it was its so stable it got me into switch footing & I'm now switch footing on floaters after mucking around on it over summer. Try something wider than 30' & it will make a big difference for you.
Hi, Damo666
My first sessions was on Starboard 9'8" 30" super fish, Worst than a goat, more looking like a standing upon a turkish toilet i make laugh every body watching me from the bar just front of the spot on my home beach. Went in with a sure back but I did like the challenge to stay up on this new board, felt happy like by my first session of my surfing life on a malibu board in summer 1969
From this first session , 5 years later, any session get involvement ... .
My best advice is to master the hold of paddle on both side natural and goofie, do streching as much you get muscular fitness to stay more souple, don't stay sure and stiff.
Board is not a problem, do master paddle, stay fit and you surfing background will do the rest for the best fun you ever get
Had to comment,I'm in the same boat at the moment,lots of previous water sports,including surfing.I'vee started on a jp 9'2x30 136 l,had about 6 goes in the surf and feel pretty comfortable on glassy water,the waves have been sucky beachies my weight is 85kgs.the problems I have are loosing control after take off,if I get on th tail I can save it but have problems turning,i've never riden boards longer than 7'0 does anybody no if this jp is maneuverable,its 9ishkgs.and when it gets even slightlychoppy things get way more unbalanced,the progression seems pretty quick,would I expect it to continue or are there hurdles along the way ,what are the difficulties to expect Freonhere,I prefer over head waves.any feedback much appreciated.
around 9'x30" is a good size to spend the first year learning the ropes. I have not tried the JPs, but they definitely seem like very good boards from what I read. Sucky waves are not the best to learn SUPing however, try to find gentler slopes...
I advise inserting sessions in flat water (or ankle snappers) between wave sessions. During the flat water sessions, try to remember what went wrong in the waves and try to train with exercises to practice specifically these points: for instance if you lost control on take off, try doing "sprints" mimicking take offs while moving your rear foot back. The trick to surviving late take offs is to "fence": get your weight down (to the point to nearly touch water with your hands), but all on the front foot, while extending you rear leg backwards to act as a "bike stand" to avoid being unceremoniously dumped behind...
What helped me also is to try to paddle 1 hour straight at the same rhythm, with no pauses or slowdown. I think it helps your body find its "natural tempo" and have a paddling that becomes second nature so you can concentrate on the waves. The hardest part is being able to get past the first 20 minutes, then you feel you can paddle for hours (kind of finding your "second breath")
On chop, what helped me is to be active: not anxiously waiting for the chop to roll the board, and then react (often too late), but actively always rolling the board underfoot left/right, kind of "hey chop, I don't fear you, look I am rolling the board myself, ha ha!". After some very choppy session handled this way, chop handling was a breeze...
Hahaha I love your honesty Damo... I gotta say that half hour was not very long :)
i've surfed most craft for about 30 years but mainly because I was a rubbish surfer. I started doing mainly flat water SUPing last year on a mates spare family board a Naish Nalu 11.6. But now only surf SUP.
I have now bought 3 boards for me and my family (including 8'10 Allwave)and won't bore you with the details but here is what I would do.
1. Dem a Famatic Fly. A 10.6 Fly is same volume as 9.5 Allwave I dem'd both boards at the same time and the Fly was amazingly stable and easy to catch waves. This is the perfect board for getting mates or family into SUPing. They are cheap and they have plenty of rocker front and back for easy turning without nose diving as many bigger boards do.
2. Watch the how to videos for paddle technique and Paddle A LOT. Go out into a bay with wind and chop and your balance will become "almost" automatic. I can surf up to 5 hours in a session in decent conditions and am sometimes out with the kite-boarders for a couple of hours.
3. Surf 1-2ft days (chest high or smaller) but steer clear of low tide shories.
4. Find a mate to do it with. ( good to have someone else to laugh at)
You can catch LOTS of waves. I Bought a GoPro a few weeks back and got footage of catching 3 waves in 2 minutes on my 8'10" Allwave without actually trying. (I Could probably figure out how to post it if you're interested) With so much time on the wave I am actually a much better surfer now than previous. Not saying much tho :).
Now i'm confident to go out in a 5 ft groundswell and pick up those peaks that prone surfers can't take advantage of. So if you are prepared to be gumby for a little while and start off with a board that makes it easy for yourself to make a start on, you will open up a whole new set of options. (I am selling my 6'8" fish)
Have fun!
