I have been riding Naish for as long as I have been SUP'ing. I was referred to them by a friend and he said they are THE go to brand for shapes, durability, and integrity as a company. I wasn't disappointed. I purchased a 12'6 Glide, an 8'5 Hokua, an 8'0 Hokua. What my friend said was correct. My Hokua's endured quite the beating with very little damage. Handled 12 + waves consistently in a number of conditions. Also surfed insane!
So then I bought a 2014 Naish LE 8'0. I assumed EXTRA durability considering it's made partially of carbon fiber. Right? - Wrong. I was concerned to find that the board was soft on certain parts of the bottom when I took it home. I contacted Naish and they assured me this was normal and helped produce a lighter board without affecting integrity. After 1 week of surfing I noticed some compression bumps where I stand. After 2 weeks of surfing I noticed a number of compression bumps in the bottom of the board; the catch? I didn't actually hit anything. I surf well and very cautiously. Not to mention I can now literally press into the board with a finger. At this point I feel it is probably 2 or 3 surfs away from a buckle or snap.
I have done some research and found similar stories regarding the 2014 Race LE's. Can anyone speak to this experience?
I want to buy the hokua 7'8 2015 LE but am concerned as I have heard of some similar issues as far as the boards being more fragile. Any experience or thoughts appreciated!
Hi Sup44,
Firstly thanks for choosing Naish, we appreciate your business. I really don't like discussions like this on a forum or in writing as it leaves things open to interpretation, but I'll try give you some further insight into your concerns and statement below.
The 8'5" and 8'0" Hokua's you refer to were in the GT construction, which was and still is the best strength to weight ratio available, making high performing ultra strong boards. However the evolution of the performance SUP and the demands of the professional rider demanded more, mainly less weight.
This demand lead by the pro team but strains on the designers as like with anything to achieve something you generally have to give something up (with in a ratio).
The 2014 LE's were some of the lightest boards on the market with leading edge shapes and technology, perfect for pro use, which is why they were described in their category as PRO Performance Wave or PRO Race, making a board that is of a standard that the worlds best would be happy to compete on production models.
Like with any professionals board mainstream surfing included, these boards tend not to be as durable as say the GT construction that most of us were used to. But this is understandable for the significant weight reduction.
As it turns out, the design of the LE Hokua's was changed mid season to add a sandwich layer to the bottom of the board (were as the original Hokua LE's only had a deck sandwich), this added a lot of strength along with more weight.
The boards are now holding up to more general consumer use better and still at a very competitive weight.
It is important to understand that Carbon does not nessecarily make a board stronger, Carbon has excellent properties in achieving stiffness at a low weight, it is actually much more brittle than normal glass.
Anyway as any good brand does, Naish is continually learning from it's R&D and now for 2015 come up with another new amazing sandwich which achieves the strength desired and keeps the weight to an amazing low.
The Honeycomb Carbon deck sandwich gives amazing skin tension, strength and durability for a Pro Performance board. The 7'8" Hokua LE is of this construction as well as all the X32's and Hokua's in the 2015 range.
I would definitely not call the 2015 Hokua LE's fragile. I have seen them cop a beating to a degree that I would expect damage on even a GT board. Any board is breakable, and going Pro Carbon will potentially be less durable in some instances, however this years construction is amongst the most durable Pro Construction on the market.
I hope this helps your concerns. If you wish to discuss further I suggest we take the conversation off-line, feel free to PM me with your contacts and we'll take it from there.
Ride safe,
JB
Basically you have a lighter foam used to shape the board, it happens to all high performance sup boards. Everybody I know that doesn't buy the pop out **** from china gets pressure marks and slight dings. You want performance you have to get a light enough foam. It's the way of life for small sups... Just wait until you start ripping out fun boxes.....
Select to expand quotetamarackjanito said..
Just wait until you start ripping out fun boxes.....
Select to expand quoteSailhack said..tamarackjanito said..
Just wait until you start ripping out fun boxes.....
New Zealand models only.....
Select to expand quoteTheGoodDr said..Sailhack said..tamarackjanito said..
Just wait until you start ripping out fun boxes.....
New Zealand models only.....
That should read New Zulland bro...
JB,
I would prefer not to go to PM as I wish I would have read a forum like this before purchasing the board. First of all, there is no question that the Naish shapes are superior. I have ridden all the other major brands and they have come up short every single time. My concern again goes back to the construction with this specific line. You mentioned carbon. Carbon is brittle because it's stiff - but I can push my finger into the board an eighth of an inch. It feels like somebody filled the board with jello and then wrapped it with really good paint. The fact that Naish redid this board with a stronger bottom validates my concern. My specific frustration is that Naish would still sell the original board with the original issues. Also, This is not a matter of PRO versus regular consumer boards. I guarantee Kai Lenny would have the same issue I did in the same span of time. I have hit zero rocks, reefs, and kept the board in under 6 foot/2 meter surf yet there is a deep indent across the line as if about to buckle. A friend of mine purchased the same board from the same shop and it buckled on it's first wave. I have also talked to someone who purchased a race board for 3k + who has had similar issues. If PRO means the board lasts less than 90 days, they shouldn't have sold it.
To be fair, Naish has agreed to warranty the board. And I do appreciate this aspect of the Naish company. If there is an issue, they will resolve it and I have heard this from many others, too.
"R&D" you the consumer are doing the "research" and they the fabricator are doing the "development"
they should put you on the payroll .............
Yup, when a company issues models where "Pro" means disposable, they should clearly advertise it. But I know it is a difficult message to convey.
Rip Curl wetsuits Pro models are less durable, but cheaper, lighter, and less waterproof, and they communicate on it.
Gong SUPs at some time had a "Pro" line that was clearly advertised as "disposable" (100% non-sandwich carbon, ultralight blank) on the brand forum (as in "dont expect to resell them"). But as Naish found, this is not what production customers expected so the construction was beefed up. (also, there were not so bad, nearly all of them held quite well and could be resold :-) )
And now the Pro line is even stronger than all the other lines... as JB says, all good brands make construction advances each year.
Yes I agee with the earlier post Naish have top designs and performance which are as good as any subject to personal style but overall would rate very high. However the big BUT for me and a couple of friends Naish seem to be in consistent quality and sadly out of 4 boards for me and 2 friends we lost out and I now have other SUPS. Edit - still have my 10.6 GT Nalu which has defects but I keep in cotton wool using only on flat water.
Tamarack,
I think this goes without saying but this has nothing to do with the foam used...it's what they use to wrap the the foam ;).
I'm getting a little off the subject here but I don't necessarily believe lighter has to be less durable. I owned a 2014 carbon starboard pro at 96 liters (16L more than my naish 8'0) and it was still lighter yet 10x more durable. The problem was the shape was silly and it was almost unturnable (even after the fin changes). I understand Starboard has a patent on the way they do the carbon but I wish Naish could get a little closer to it. Maybe they found this happy medium in the 2015 models. Or maybe Naish and Starboard merge and make the perfect board
I think JB is right, a forum isnt the best place to discuss your concerns, and thereby degrade a brand, unless all other avenues for resolving the problem have failed. In your second post, you say that Naish is replacing the board under warranty - doesn't that tell you something about their service and integrity?
I know you've said you were a fan of your old naish boards so you don't have it in for a brand, but your first post could be very discouraging for anyone considering purchasing an LE board - many people won't read on to see you later say the brand did the right thing and offered you a warranty, they will just take your first post and reconsider their purchase.
i have no affiliation with Naish, but have previously owned 8 (I think) of their boards. Issues with 2 of these (in the early days - early 2009) were followed up promptly and both were warrantied. The next 4 or 5 naish boars I purchased had no issues whatsoever.
i have also had boards replaced under warranty from other reputable brands if there is a clear manufacturing defect.
yes, its disappointing if you get a board that doesnt hold up as you expected, and it can be a hassle to go through the process of requesting a warranty, but any brand that is willing to stand behind that product and replace it for you when it is warranted, should either be praised on a forum like this or nothing said, rather than openly making comments that have the potential to degrade their position in the market.
i know it's a forum and everyone is free and welcome to say whatever they like - but I still like to think that most people will act in the best interests of the wider community, not just them.selves
Select to expand quoteAli Cat said..
I think JB is right, a forum isnt the best place to discuss your concerns, and thereby degrade a brand, unless all other avenues for resolving the problem have failed. In your second post, you say that Naish is replacing the board under warranty - doesn't that tell you something about their service and integrity?
I know you've said you were a fan of your old naish boards so you don't have it in for a brand, but your first post could be very discouraging for anyone considering purchasing an LE board - many people won't read on to see you later say the brand did the right thing and offered you a warranty, they will just take your first post and reconsider their purchase.
i have no affiliation with Naish, but have previously owned 8 (I think) of their boards. Issues with 2 of these (in the early days - early 2009) were followed up promptly and both were warrantied. The next 4 or 5 naish boars I purchased had no issues whatsoever.
i have also had boards replaced under warranty from other reputable brands if there is a clear manufacturing defect.
yes, its disappointing if you get a board that doesnt hold up as you expected, and it can be a hassle to go through the process of requesting a warranty, but any brand that is willing to stand behind that product and replace it for you when it is warranted, should either be praised on a forum like this or nothing said, rather than openly making comments that have the potential to degrade their position in the market.
i know it's a forum and everyone is free and welcome to say whatever they like - but I still like to think that most people will act in the best interests of the wider community, not just them.selves
I think the forum is the right place to discuss issues with the equipment we use, sometimes your not sure if there is an issue with your purchase or what your seeing is normal "wear and tear".
JB handled it professionally, gave us all some insights into how the boards are made and in no way has the Naish brand been denigrated. I own a Nalu timber deck, (10.6, 28inch wide) that's about three years old and had quite a thrashing, still in great condition.
The alternative, where we only say positive things about everything, and is my experience with catsailor forum leads to a forum which is simply advertising. Unfortunately new, inexperienced people really get shafted then and you loose them from the sport.
Better to keep the balance, suping is a great sport, most of the topics are purely positive, the occasional topic that starts off a bit negative usually turns into good news like this one has.
cheers,
Darryn
Nalu 10.6
Allwave 9.5
Bark 14
Yeah I agree with Darryn. I don't just want to read 100% positive posts all the time - it sounds like a paid commercial or a sponsored magazine review. This is a forum for discussion of all topics wether good or bad.
IMO the OP didn't bash or degrade the brand's reputation at all.(Hey I'm still super keen on looking at the Naish Glide for my next board). It was balanced with some positive & not-so positive points and some other posts containing good info. All good for a padawan like me who still has much to learn about the ways of The SUP
All good in the hood.
I had Naish Jav LE 2015 14'x 28" problems after getting caught up in the hype of the board, prior to even a demo on it.
Since moved on & loving my SIC V2 Bullet.
Still have 3 Naish boards, just a lot more selective with my choices now.
Interesting thought ... we shouldn't talk about sup board quality in the sup forum. Really?
I don't think every post needs to be positive but I just think there is a path to go down to try and resolve a problem before putting it on a forum.
In this case it looks like that path had been followed, the problem has been resolved by a warranty.
By all means it's reasonable to ask the question he is asking for when considering a future purchase and to see what other people's experiances are... but why not just say straight up in the first post that the faulty board had been warrantied so people aren't left with the impression that the initial response from Naish about some impressions being normal was the end of the story?
Happy to hear good and bad reviews on here - as long as it's a fair and honest representation of your situation as it stands.
Select to expand quoteAli Cat said..
I think JB is right, a forum isnt the best place to discuss your concerns, and thereby degrade a brand, unless all other avenues for resolving the problem have failed. In your second post, you say that Naish is replacing the board under warranty - doesn't that tell you something about their service and integrity?
I know you've said you were a fan of your old naish boards so you don't have it in for a brand, but your first post could be very discouraging for anyone considering purchasing an LE board - many people won't read on to see you later say the brand did the right thing and offered you a warranty, they will just take your first post and reconsider their purchase.
I was clear that I have been pleased with Naish in the past and spoke to the integrity both as a company and their GT models. Whether or not that was included in the first post is irrelevant. As far as deterring people from purchasing a potentially defective 2014 LE? I can say that I wish I had been better informed. So no, I won't censor my posts, both positive and less positive, regarding my SUP experiences with SUP companies on a SUP forum. I will say that I will most likely will buy from Naish again and reiterate the fact that Naish has held up to their reputation in keeping good with the warranty. I do hope they learn from their mistakes and produce the great boards we know their capable of producing.
Select to expand quoteAli Cat said..
I don't think every post needs to be positive but I just think there is a path to go down to try and resolve a problem before putting it on a forum.
In this case it looks like that path had been followed, the problem has been resolved by a warranty.
By all means it's reasonable to ask the question he is asking for when considering a future purchase and to see what other people's experiances are... but why not just say straight up in the first post that the faulty board had been warrantied so people aren't left with the impression that the initial response from Naish about some impressions being normal was the end of the story?
Happy to hear good and bad reviews on here - as long as it's a fair and honest representation of your situation as it stands.
Agree with Ali cat's comments. It will be a sad day and forums will become irrelvant when we can only post positive comments.
By all means we all have to be fair and honest.
Have to disagree with the whole "You can't talk about it" thing. Yes we can talk about it. It's a forum. That's the point of it. What if I was thinking of buying one of these boards second hand .... "great condition, unwanted present" springs to mind. Are Naish going to warranty that? Plus it stimulates interesting discussion about boards construction. How many people realised that a "pro" model could translate into "it will fall apart before your eyes" model.
The forum is exactly the place to air something like this.....as long as the airing is done responsibly Which this has been done. Get some answers and everyone else gains some education on board manufacturing. Helps decisions. I ride a Naish GT by the way....love it....but also have other brands that are equally good or perhaps better.....
Totally agree. I assume freedom of speech extends to forums. If it wasn't for this forum i would still be thinking "maybe it's just me, am i too big to be riding this board, am i doing it wrong?"
People speaking out is healthy for all and helps the punters steer clear of overpriced crap, and is hopefully helpful to the manufacturers as well.
On the whole these boards cost thousands, not hundreds and the profit margins are huge.
Keep the comments coming people, positive AND negative, and we can continue to help each other.
I had great fun on this years 10'6" nalu this afternoon in relatively crappy conditions. The shell on this board is so much more robust than last years model.
See what i mean?
Select to expand quotecolas said..
Yup, when a company issues models where "Pro" means disposable, they should clearly advertise it. But I know it is a difficult message to convey.
Rip Curl wetsuits Pro models are less durable, but cheaper, lighter, and less waterproof, and they communicate on it.
Gong SUPs at some time had a "Pro" line that was clearly advertised as "disposable" (100% non-sandwich carbon, ultralight blank) on the brand forum (as in "dont expect to resell them"). But as Naish found, this is not what production customers expected so the construction was beefed up. (also, there were not so bad, nearly all of them held quite well and could be resold :-) )
And now the Pro line is even stronger than all the other lines... as JB says, all good brands make construction advances each year. Yes....Gong certainly had a rep for fragile boards....all of them not just the pro models But there are some fantastic surf designs...ahead of many others.
This thread has got soooooo far off the posted topic, start your own thread if you want to discuss what people should or should not discuss.
Select to expand quoteCraig66 said..
This thread has got soooooo far off the posted topic, start your own thread if you want to discuss what people should or should not discuss.
If you ain't got something positive to say then say nothing.......see the irony in this? ????
Select to expand quoteSup44 said..Ali Cat said..
I think JB is right, a forum isnt the best place to discuss your concerns, and thereby degrade a brand, unless all other avenues for resolving the problem have failed. In your second post, you say that Naish is replacing the board under warranty - doesn't that tell you something about their service and integrity?
I know you've said you were a fan of your old naish boards so you don't have it in for a brand, but your first post could be very discouraging for anyone considering purchasing an LE board - many people won't read on to see you later say the brand did the right thing and offered you a warranty, they will just take your first post and reconsider their purchase.
I was clear that I have been pleased with Naish in the past and spoke to the integrity both as a company and their GT models. Whether or not that was included in the first post is irrelevant. As far as deterring people from purchasing a potentially defective 2014 LE? I can say that I wish I had been better informed. So no, I won't censor my posts, both positive and less positive, regarding my SUP experiences with SUP companies on a SUP forum. I will say that I will most likely will buy from Naish again and reiterate the fact that Naish has held up to their reputation in keeping good with the warranty. I do hope they learn from their mistakes and produce the great boards we know their capable of producing.
I'm sorry if my comments offended you, that was not my intention, maybe it's my aspergian traits but I get the impression that maybe my comments, as yours, we're open to more interpretation than I thought.
I know you made it clear you're a fan of naish and you would still buy their boards in the future. The discussion you've opened up about the pro construction boards sacrificing a little durability compared to the GT in order to get a lighter weight board is definitely a valid forum discussion and could help many people in their decisions with future purchases depending on whether their priority is for weight or durability. I'm not asking you to censor your post in this respect.
However as JB said, your first post is open to interpretation - the defects that you describe in your board were clearly beyond the standard deck impressions you would expect with the lighter weight pro construction and my interpretation from that first post alone was that Naish had informed you it was normal - end of story. So if I was a potential buyer I would be discouraged by the possibility of paying top dollar for a Pro board if I could expect to be able to push my thumb straight through it.
Knowing from your follow up post that your board was abnormally soft and was warrantied would change my interpretation of your earlier comments significantly, making me aware of the issue you raised but confident that if I did purachase a pro construction board and was unlucky enough to get a really soft one that didn't hold up at all - I would have a valid claim for a warranty (even though the process can be a hassle) and not be told it was simply normal.
For someone just flicking through the forum and only reading your first post it could appear that although you're a fan of Naish boards, their follow up service was poor, when in fact, once a significant durability issue was identified their service was very good in providing you with a warranty - to me this service would be a major difference in considering a board purchase.
If the simple comment regarding the warranty was included in your first post, the possibility of misinterpretation would be reduced and the rest of this discussion, as well as JB's details on the change in construction to combat this issue, could be very helpful for many others considering a purchase.
I'm a Robbie Naish fan and have a few awesome sailboards that Mistral made
and they were the shizzle.. So I bought 2 new Naish sailboards in 2012 and all you get is a bit of foam laminated
with no real strength where it's needed. You pay for the name but the product is fairly average
compared to a lot of other brands.. Just my opinion after a few years in the water...
Select to expand quoteSlab said..Craig66 said..
This thread has got soooooo far off the posted topic, start your own thread if you want to discuss what people should or should not discuss.
If you ain't got something positive to say then say nothing.......see the irony in this? ????
Actually I don't
