Hi Guys,
I am currently getting into my first downwinding season and absolutely love it! Problem is that my balance on my 14' x 26" is not the best, especially once it gets over 20 Knots. I am looking to get another board and not sure if I go unlimited or 28" wide 14'? All I am looking for is to make it easier in my local Perth Metro conditions in +20 knots, not looking to be the fastest or podium finish! I am fine on my 26" up to that point so this will just be a higher wind board.
Thanks guys!
Unlimited in WA for sure. Some of the guys in Sydney have just got unlimiteds and not only are they a lot faster now the guys are commenting how even the thin ones are more stable. Try them both before you decide.
Thanks for the input guys! What are the different riding techniques used for both. Will the unlimited require more walking up and down? What would be the pluses and minuses for each in higher wind?
I have both a Bullet 17.4 and 14ft (Naish Glide and Maliko). Unlimited is still the gold standard in my view and just a fun board in so many conditions. I maintain it works in every condition. Strong wind, light wind, short and long period swell. On my 80kg just a bit more stability than the Naish Glide which is around 14 x 27 1/4. For me, where the unlimited are just unstoppable are in anything 15km+.
Moving between a unlimited and 14 footer makes one appreciate both types though and I do not believe one has to worry, though the unlimited with rudder is so much more technical that the more one is on it the better one gets. After over a year with an unlimited, there is plenty of learning.
Having said that the 14footers are great and easy to go back to on a daily basis. I use 60-70% of the time as easier to stick on my roof, and also less worry getting in and out on heavy surf. When I am back on the 14 footers I do appreciate the small size and I think using the unlimited complements the 14 footers.
You will not go wrong with an unlimited especially if you are doing distance. They really make downwinding fun, and one can go for miles without dropping speed. If you are only planning 10km runs, and have surf launches then I would be more careful.
Ownership costs, maintenance, storage, transport and carrying hassles are usually greater for unlimiteds.
In the water, whether an UL board is best for you will depend on the conditions and on you. ULs aren't universally better in all conditions: in "no-fetch" short period steep stuff the sheer bulk of them can be too much, and in high winds a rudder won't help much with paddling directly across wind and chop, so make sure the rudder mech doesn't prevent you from getting well forward to paddle. More skill is required for an UL, and if your DW run ends in a beach break then an UL board can he a handful to surf, and the chances of breaking it are higher. Some people find unlimited boards hard to get going in smaller stuff, so they suit better paddlers who have decent paddle power and maybe also some weight to be able to shift the beast.
But if your DW conditions suit an UL, and you have the skills and power to make them work, then they are way more fun than a 14.
I kinda think of them like a F1 car: expensive, a lot of hassle, technically difficult, and not suitable for all conditions. But in the right hands and the right conditions there is nothing faster or more thrilling.
The latest UL production SICs with the option of a fixed fin, and lower maintenance (hopefully) rudders are a great idea, and will make these boards a little more adaptable.
Select to expand quoteArea10 said..
Ownership costs, maintenance, storage, transport and carrying hassles are usually greater for unlimiteds.
In the water, whether an UL board is best for you will depend on the conditions and on you. ULs aren't universally better in all conditions: in "no-fetch" short period steep stuff the sheer bulk of them can be too much, and in high winds a rudder won't help much with paddling directly across wind and chop, so make sure the rudder mech doesn't prevent you from getting well forward to paddle. More skill is required for an UL, and if your DW run ends in a beach break then an UL board can he a handful to surf, and the chances of breaking it are higher. Some people find unlimited boards hard to get going in smaller stuff, so they suit better paddlers who have decent paddle power and maybe also some weight to be able to shift the beast.
But if your DW conditions suit an UL, and you have the skills and power to make them work, then they are way more fun than a 14.
I kinda think of them like a F1 car: expensive, a lot of hassle, technically difficult, and not suitable for all conditions. But in the right hands and the right conditions there is nothing faster or more thrilling.
The latest UL production SICs with the option of a fixed fin, and lower maintenance (hopefully) rudders are a great idea, and will make these boards a little more adaptable.
Nice objective analysis A10, as always. I'm betting on your last sentence... I've placed an order for a 2016 Bullet 17-4. Certainly not a perfect board for my local everyday conditions, that's what the JL Stiletto and the Naish Glide 14v2 is for... But I wanted to be able to hard wire my skills on the same board that I'll use on return visits to Maui... (Maliko was humbling enough, little own using an unfamiliar bord with steering... ). Also I want a big volume board for extended touring, as well as big downwind days in larger conditions. The fixed fin option and the beefing up of the Bullets next season is the lynchpin. The cost... Yikes... Don't ask.
SUPerD - I'd like one of the new SIC ULs too. But I'm thinking that maybe the F16 might be better for my local conditions, which are very messy, shallow, and short period often with beach breaks at each end. 16ft seems like a good "handle-able" length for me - I've surfed two 16ft boards before with no trouble but my 17 is just that little bit too long for me to control well from the tail in bigger surf at my size - I find myself getting back so far I actually step off the back of the tail! (But obviously, Travis Grant has shown us at the last M2O that surfing the big boards is a breeze if you have the skills...)
But I'm sure that if I was doing longer distances and had Maliko-style DW onditions, I'd be getting the Bullet.
What led you to choose the Bullet?
Any of you guys used the F14 wide glide? Don't hear too much about it....too wide?
Select to expand quoteArea10 said..
SUPerD - I'd like one of the new SIC ULs too. But I'm thinking that maybe the F16 might be better for my local conditions, which are very messy, shallow, and short period often with beach breaks at each end. 16ft seems like a good "handle-able" length for me - I've surfed two 16ft boards before with no trouble but my 17 is just that little bit too long for me to control well from the tail in bigger surf at my size - I find myself getting back so far I actually step off the back of the tail! (But obviously, Travis Grant has shown us at the last M2O that surfing the big boards is a breeze if you have the skills...)
But I'm sure that if I was doing longer distances and had Maliko-style DW onditions, I'd be getting the Bullet.
What led you to choose the Bullet?
1). Wanting to be able to step off a plane to Maui and onto a Bullet - and be immediately comfortable. 2) they are very capable in short period conditions when it's lined up and not messy like your conditions. - as evidenced by the Melbourne unlimited Crew here on the 'Breeze. 3) there's a couple of 12-6's and a 14 in my quiver so far. Time to stretch it out. 4) they are absolutely one of the coolest boards, ever. Life's too short not to own one. 
Sounds like there is a lot of love for the unlimited sups! What are the riding characteristics between the 17' Bullet and F16? F16 having much more rocker, does this require less getting back to keep the nose up? I'm just wondering for me (85kg) and Perth Metro conditions?
I'm starting to think that a 28" wide 14' is just too close to my 26" wide 14' to make it a worthy addition to my quiver. Just need more practice, and perhaps demo an unlimited 
Well, I've never tried a F16 but many people have told me that they are easier than the Bullet, if not quite as fast in the right hands. The extra rocker is one aspect of this - to help avoid pearling. And the F16 is a bit wider so a touch more stable. Basically, I think it is supposed to be an easier and more forgiving board than the Bullet 17, but if you are a skilled rider they are not as fast.
F16 vs. Bullet 17? I think Nozza posted a good comparison in the past while, I did a quick search, but it eluded my attempt.. I seem to recall him actually measuring (on a C.M.M. ? ) and plotting out profiles and rocker lines, as well as commenting on the paddling nuances of each. Downwinder usually jumps in whenever SIC is mentioned, but I think he's preoccupied with his own Unlimited - the Low Pressure!
Select to expand quoteSlab said...
Any of you guys used the F14 wide glide? Don't hear too much about it....too wide?
No, I don't think so, given the right conditions. I have both 14x30" DW boards and 14x27 DW boards, and I use the wider ones when winds are nuclear (35-50 knots) and conditions are big and messy. My balance is pretty average so the width helps me make more bumps and fall less, which equates to more fun. Once you get to the stage where the wind is so strong that it is blowing you into bumps, you don't really have to have a narrow board, and the extra ability to keep the planing surface horizontal (therefore more ready to plane) and the energy you save from not having to balance so hard can easily make up in average speed (and fun) for any loss of top speed over a longer run.
But if the bumps in your DW runs never get above knee-high and 25 knots then it is worth trying to get used to the narrowest board you are comfortable on, because narrower boards are easier to get into bumps, all other things being equal, and lighter boards are easier to redirect.
The only thing I'd say about the F14 is that it is a fairly low rocker board I think, and if you are going to use a wide board in hell conditions then you might be wanting a bit of rocker too, perhaps. But it depends on the skill of the rider and the particular conditions.
The loss of average DW speed when a rider is in a board that is too wobbly for them is profound. You can turn someone who is keeping up with a bunch of paddlers into someone you have to wait for every 5 mins by just putting them on a narrower board than they are comfortable with. For the average Joe, stability is speed downwinding, and the biggest newbie error I see is using a board that is too narrow for the conditions and skill set.
Yes I used the SIC F14 in Maui (Maliko) this year.
It was a rental board - we were too late to snaffle F16's or Bullet 17's.
It was just fine - especially since it was my first trip to do the famed Maliko runs.
It's a heavy construction, but still the unmistakable SIC quality in both build and performance. It instilled confidence and ease of use, upwind, cross wind and downwind. We had 2 of them in our group, plus another (er...) red coloured board. We swapped around till we found the best combination for our paddlers. Whoever was on the red one had difficulty in the cross winds getting out of the gulch, and got left behind in general downwind paddling. No problem for the F14. Downwind it performed like an SIC - brilliantly. What it lost in extra weight and width was compensated by the ability to push it harder on the waves.
So if you think you may have some balance issues, don't want to fall off, and can handle another couple of kg's in weight, it's a great downwind board.
As my UK brother says,
"The loss of average DW speed when a rider is in a board that is too wobbly for them is profound. You can turn someone who is keeping up with a bunch of paddlers into someone you have to wait for every 5 mins by just putting them on a narrower board than they are comfortable with. For the average Joe, stability is speed downwinding, and the biggest newbie error I see is using a board that is too narrow for the conditions and skill set."
PS - the SIC F16 is just a magic carpet ride.
check out the beautiful Suzie's vimeo here...
Now I'm more confused! F16 looks awesome, but just a bit worried about technique needed to ride it, and 28" wide 14' might give me a little more stability than my 26". If you had to go for either as a newbie to downwinding which would you suggest?? I think I'm at a level of needing stability and as little foot work as possible!
I think it would probably be premature to jump to a UL board at this stage. UL boards are usually what you get after you have got some DW experience on 14s.
I think you should try to find a used downwind-specialist 14ft board to learn on first. A Jimmy Lewis M14 would be an obvious choice. But a F14 or Coreban Dart make fine choices that would give you much fun and you'd probably end up keeping for big stuff when your progress. A Naish Glide Mk2 might do as well, although it's not quite as stable as those already mentioned. Or a SIC Bullet V1, if you can find one. Or another possibility might be the 27.5" wide boof-nosed Fanatic Falcon 2014. That's a board where you don't have to move your feet much. But whatever you get, you are going to have to work on your footwork: it's what downwinding is all about!
If you can find one, the Jimmy Lewis Albatross also makes a great starter DW board. It's surprisingly fast DW for a 12-6 and makes it about as easy as it gets, and usually secondhand they are very reasonable in price. Tough as old boots too.
Whatever you do, don't go spending a fortune on a new board that you haven't tried in your DW conditions. Demo demo demo.
GOOD FOOTWORK PRACTICE DRILL:
I attended a race clinic this summer run by none other than Anthony Vela, aka all around waterman, Infinity board rider and Candace Appleby's other half. This particular clinic was ALL ABOUT footwork. He provided us with one particular drill that I have found quite transferable between buoy racing and downwinding. And one that you can easily practice on calm water while not under the pressure and conditions of a downwinder.
After your usual warm up, start a sequence of 4-6 paddle strokes, then move back, in whatever style of footwork you use, one step and then hold the stance for 30 seconds. Then repeat, mixing up the exercise by moving back further towards the tail, holding 30 secs, then a cross-stepping if you can, and then changing the lead foot, holding for 30 seconds, 6 strokes and so on. And do change paddle sides, and practice active bracing.
If you mix it up enough the exercise avoids the boredom syndrome quite easily.
Not only will the footwork challenge your balance and build confidence for tougher conditions, the 30 second hold, after say 10-12 sequences will really start to activate the smaller twitch muscles above your ankles.
Select to expand quoteinorbit said...
Now I'm more confused! F16 looks awesome, but just a bit worried about technique needed to ride it, and 28" wide 14' might give me a little more stability than my 26". If you had to go for either as a newbie to downwinding which would you suggest?? I think I'm at a level of needing stability and as little foot work as possible!
The 28 width will give you a lot more stability over the 26 without sacrificing much speed.. and that extra stability will allow you to concentrate more on paddle technique and more importantly your footwork..
Slightly off topic....but still downwinding.....is there a recommended weight range for a V2? (Apologies for jumping in the thread)
Just a few thoughts. Unlimited board are a special breed. I've been considering one for quite a while but I decided to stay on 14 . Everyone else around here is on 14 wich makes it much easier to sell a second hand board if you would try something else.
The group I usually downwind with is pretty slow , so I sometimes go for a 12'6 to stay with the others , Going unlimited would make downwinding even more of solosport than it already is
Don't fear the Bullet 17, they are more versatile than people realise, and you'll never have to upgrade it....
More importantly before you make any decision, and as so many have mentioned - try before you buy. This is especially important for people starting out DWing.Whilst wider is easier, a boards width is not always a true indication of how balanced it is with you on it. And you don't want to find out that your new purchase is a handful when things go pear-shaped 2km offshore.
If you can demo, try and demo in conditions that take you out of your comfort zone. That way there are no surprises.There are some good options for 14's in the 28"-30" widths like the 28" Naish, 29" Falcon and the 30"Coreban Dart, plus others mentioned.
Good luck and safe paddling.
Select to expand quoteSlab said...
Slightly off topic....but still downwinding.....is there a recommended weight range for a V2? (Apologies for jumping in the thread)
You mean a SIC Bullet 14V2? It's not a very high volume board by DW board standards, as it has quite a thinned-out tail. But you'd still have to be pretty hefty to sink it at around 270L. I'm guessing around 100 kegs might be fine even in small conditions, but in a real good blow it might easily be higher. A Bullet 14V1 might carry heavier weights.
Thanks for all your input guys, it's been interesting to read all your views. I will stay with the 14' and demo some of the boards mentioned by Area 10 (cheers!), hopefully then my downwind technique will develop and the pain just under my kneecaps will go away
I started DW last season and got hooked.... big time.
I started with a Jimmy Lewis M-14. I paddle in a club on Tuesdays and when its not blowing we do simple "round the cans" racing. The JL M-14 is **** for that.
But when it starts blowing, the M-14 is fantastic. I am so happy with this board. To be honest, i am Waaaaaaay too heavy for it, but with persistence i have been able to make it work.
After doing one "open water" at the end of last season, i knew i had to get a UL. So i went to see DC and talked to him about it. I am expecting it soon.
So that has been my progression. In case you are wondering, i am keeping the M-14... that board is too good to ever sell... especially when i don't really care about flat water racing or anything that is into the wind...
"So that has been my progression. In case you are wondering, i am keeping the M-14... that board is too good to ever sell... especially when i don't really care about flat water racing or anything that is into the wind..."
You know the rule, Chuck...Gentlemen don't paddle to windward...!!!
Select to expand quotechucktheskiffie said..
I started DW last season and got hooked.... big time.
I started with a Jimmy Lewis M-14. I paddle in a club on Tuesdays and when its not blowing we do simple "round the cans" racing. The JL M-14 is **** for that.
But when it starts blowing, the M-14 is fantastic. I am so happy with this board. To be honest, i am Waaaaaaay too heavy for it, but with persistence i have been able to make it work.
After doing one "open water" at the end of last season, i knew i had to get a UL. So i went to see DC and talked to him about it. I am expecting it soon.
So that has been my progression. In case you are wondering, i am keeping the M-14... that board is too good to ever sell... especially when i don't really care about flat water racing or anything that is into the wind...
You bringing the UL on Tuesdays?
When it arrives it will get a go. Too be honest, i'm pretty certain the UL will not be suitable for the short period NE in the bay. Especially when the tide is running out... i think the 14ft will go much better...
It might go ok in the Southerly on Tarzan's run though...
Of course, when it arrives it will be the new toy and i'll be sleeping on it, so yes it will be down on Tuesdays - at least for a bit!
I'd go an unlimited. They're more fun, faster and easier to have fun on if your learning because when you downwind you need to be able to steer the board wherever you want and is a skill that some take along time to get if they get it at all! Having a rudder allows you to point it onto every bump you want. Do not get a f16. Yes we get wind in Perth but they're best suited to 25plus knots. I'd wait until after the big races coming up cause I have a feeling there may be a few around for sale after that.
