I can't hardly wait to see the first reviews of the new starboard twinfin. If they're any good I would love to have one.
In preparation to that moment I do have 2 questions about the the difference between the carbon version and the limited edition.
I own a spice 8'8 140l limited edition and a gong mob 7'11 rad 123l full carbon.
The spice rocks, it is very stable, it surf exceptionally well and the board is really strong.
The mob is super light end surfs very wel. But the build quality is bad. I surf this board only 10% of the time, mostly in friendly conditions but I had to repair the board several times. This in combination with the non existent service of Gong has made, buying the mob, the worst investment ever.
I
But I do love a very light board...
Hence my questions.
What about the build quality of the carbon Starboard surf sups? Is it as strong as the limited edition or is it much more fragile?
Is there someone out there who surfed the same starboard sup in the limited edition and the carbon edition? Do you feel de difference while surfing?
In other words is the Starboard twinfin carbon worth the extra money?
I hope someone can help me,
Thanks in advance
Berrie
Select to expand quoteBer said..
I had to repair the board several times.
If your repairs are for paint chipping with paddle hits, my advice is just spay paint (+ anti-UV varnish) directly on the chipped parts, without "repairing" (no epoxy). It then doesn't chip anymore.
I think the paint used in the factory is too thick and rigid, and can chip. Applying yourself spray paint seems to leave a thinner, more flexible layer that does not chip.
Before: (on an Alley, but I did the same on my Mob). I used Montana paints.
1st paint layer:
2nd layer
3rd paint layer + 2 UV varnish. It now resists chipping.
Thanks for your advice,
But it definitely is not just paint. Several dings and even een split up nose over 19 cm. I repaired the board every time and I probably will have to do that several times in the future. (That's what other Gong owners told me)
So this time I want to be sure, spending my money on a good product. I know that the limited edition of Starboard is very durable but what about the carbon edition?
The Blue Carbon is bullet proof, I have 8'2" Spice from last year. The weight is acceptable but they are not light. I had the shop pick me up the lightest one in stock. It came in at the advertised weight +5% range. It's a great all around board though. I'm more excited about the Acute Carbon Twin.
Thank you very much Shlogger, its very helpful. Can you tell ne why you're eve more excited about the Acute Carbon Twin? Did you already try one?
Isn't the acute carbon new for Starboard? Not sure anyone has experience with it long term. One of the guys I surf with had his blue carbon Spice buckle; Starboard covered it under warranty. He got a new board with no hassle.
Select to expand quoteBer said..
Thank you very much Shlogger, it's very helpful. Can you tell ne why you're eve more excited about the Acute Carbon Twin? Did you already try one?
I love twin fins and twins w a trailer in my surfboards. The Spice is a kinda a do almost everything board. For smaller days I'd like a fast twin and the weights in the Acute Carbons look amazing. Waiting on some real reviews before I pull the trigger at that price though.
The Starboard Twin comes in a new construction, which is supposedly different to the standard blue carbon or the blue carbon sandwich (pro). I don't think there is anybody here who has actually experienced the construction, unless they are a reviewer, influencer, team rider etc.
Select to expand quotetheSeb said..
The Starboard Twin comes in a new construction, which is supposedly different to the standard blue carbon or the blue carbon sandwich (pro).
From the video, they used a denser blank (25 kg/m3) rather than the common 15 kg/m3, allowing them to have less material in the lamination, and thus have a more flexible "skin" to provide more flex.
Also, having the weight more "centered" into the blank instead of "spread out" in the skin should give a different feel, less bouncy/lively but more controlled/smooth. This is in part what explains the difference in feel between PU and EPS surfboards. Or between "surf" construction (only glass layers) and the carbon sandwich ones.
I guess they try to get the feel of the "epoxy" boards without the weight. Interesting.
I wonder ho they avoid the problem of a heavier core with a lighter skin which gets heavier with volume (skin surface grows to the square, blank volume to the cube). The reason SUPs went EPS.
Select to expand quotecolas said..theSeb said..
The Starboard Twin comes in a new construction, which is supposedly different to the standard blue carbon or the blue carbon sandwich (pro).
From the video, they used a denser blank (25 kg/m3) rather than the common 15 kg/m3, allowing them to have less material in the lamination, and thus have a more flexible "skin" to provide more flex.
Also, having the weight more "centered" into the blank instead of "spread out" in the skin should give a different feel, less bouncy/lively but more controlled/smooth. This is in part what explains the difference in feel between PU and EPS surfboards. Or between "surf" construction (only glass layers) and the carbon sandwich ones.
I guess they try to get the feel of the "epoxy" boards without the weight. Interesting.
I wonder ho they avoid the problem of a heavier core with a lighter skin which gets heavier with volume (skin surface grows to the square, blank volume to the cube). The reason SUPs went EPS.
This is very interesting, thank you very much! What do you mean with epoxy boards? Is it a eps core with a couple of layers of fiberglass and epoxy?
My understanding is that 'epoxy' just refers to the resin. When shapers started using eps foam cores due to the lighter weight, they could not use the standard surfboard resin because it dissolves eps foam, so they had to switch to epoxy resin. Therefore, an epoxy resin board tells you that it has an eps foam core. 'Epoxy' does not tell you anything about the laminations which could be fiberglass, carbon, kevlar, wood, high-density foam sandwich, etc., in any combination of weights and layering.
Select to expand quoteBer said..
What do you mean with epoxy boards? Is it a eps core with a couple of layers of fiberglass and epoxy?
Yes, sorry for the terse phrasing.
I had some of these, and I must say they definitively have a pleasant feel, alas less efficient in the small waves that are my preferred playground.Here is a 6'10" mini-Simmons I had:
In this construction I thus re-sold this mini-Simmons since it was not adapted to its small wave program, but I kept a "performance" shape (pumpkin seed) in this construction as it was more pleasant in bigger waves.
I think the main issue will be trying to find one in Australia, only limited numbers were brought in and all look to be sold out already
Select to expand quotecolas said..Ber said..
What do you mean with epoxy boards? Is it a eps core with a couple of layers of fiberglass and epoxy?
Yes, sorry for the terse phrasing.
I had some of these, and I must say they definitively have a pleasant feel, alas less efficient in the small waves that are my preferred playground.Here is a 6'10" mini-Simmons I had:
In this construction I thus re-sold this mini-Simmons since it was not adapted to its small wave program, but I kept a "performance" shape (pumpkin seed) in this construction as it was more pleasant in bigger waves.
To sum it all up. please correct me if I'm wrong.
Limited Edition:
-Much more affordable
-It has flex
-It is more impact resistant (At least compared to normal carbon)
-Weaker to compression forces ( but good enough, out of experience with other limited editions)
-Weight is in the shell ending up in a less smooth experience
-Heavy
Acute Carbon:
-Expensive
-It has flex
-les impact resistant (good enough in the blue carbon construction)
-Weight is in the core ending up in a more smooth experience
-Very light
So, the main difference is in the weight, the weight distribution and the price.
Note that the heavier weight of the Limited Edition also ensures a smoother experience (more inertia in chop).Which would be the more noticeable effect for "smoothess": extra weight or centered weight?
Hard to tell. My guess would be the Limited Edition may be smoother in chop, but ... it just a guess.
If you are right, then the difference for a 125l starboard twinfin limited edition and the acute carbon edition is 1 kg and 20 grams for about 1000,- euro
Select to expand quoteBer said..
If you are right, then the difference for a 125l starboard twinfin limited edition and the acute carbon edition is 1 kg and 20 grams for about 1000,- euro
Yes, getting weight off a board construction while keeping the strength is expensive.
The famous compromise: strength - lightness - price ...
And this is why I am so focused on pad weights. Why spending huge money to shave some grams on the board to put them back with an heavy pad?
I'm picking one up Sept. Contacts at Supboarder Pro describe it as light, responsive and fun. Poss more performance oriented than the blurb suggests. Think there is response to a question raised in their first impression video.
I totally get where you're coming from. I've had similar experiences with super light boards that surf really well but don't hold up over time. As for Starboard's carbon construction, it is definitely lighter, and you can feel that difference on the wave, especially with quicker turns and responsiveness. But in terms of durability, it's usually not as tough as the limited edition. The limited version tends to be a bit heavier but more solid overall. If you surf in rougher spots or want something that lasts longer, the limited might be a safer choice. But if you're focused on performance and are okay with being a bit more careful, the carbon might be worth considering. Hopefully someone who has surfed both versions can share their thoughts.
Or you could just get a custom board that will be reinforced strategically for your weight and spots and conditions with your ideal strength/weight compromise.And for probably cheaper than the expensive production brands.Just sayin'...
Select to expand quotecolas said..
Or you could just get a custom board that will be reinforced strategically for your weight and spots and conditions with your ideal strength/weight compromise.And for probably cheaper than the expensive production brands.Just sayin'...
I wouldn't know where to go to. But it sounds very interesting. I'm from the Netherlands, do you know where I should go?
Smik or Sunova makes custom boards if you want. I'm sure Colas can help you with the contact for Gong
IMO they have quite huge gaps betwenn the offered volumes in the bigger sizes. For my 93 kg i'd like to have something bwtween 130 - 140 litres.
125 is a tad too small for choppy conditions, 150 seems too big for my taste. Hmm?
Select to expand quoteBer said..
I wouldn't know where to go to. But it sounds very interesting. I'm from the Netherlands, do you know where I should go?
For these open questions where you do not know where to start, a first pass with ChatGPT(*) is a good way to get leads, that you can then explore and feed into google searches to refine them.
You can find SUP shapers, or:
- sailboard shapers: top notch construction, but must know the type of rocker needed for SUP
- surfboard shapers: I would avoid, they do not know how to make strong and light boards with high volume. Plus the SUP rockers are different (faster)
I would of course recommend Gong, a full carbon custom with PVC sandwich on the deck was 2000 euros last year, but the type of construction can be chosen at will. I chose not the contest/ultralight construction, but one both lighter and stronger than production. Just contact them for discussion on the shape and more info.
To give you an idea, my custom weights in this construction are (they have not a paddle ding nor heel dent after 2 1/2 years of use... like new)
7'10" Alley-based 112L 5.75kg (without pad)
7'11" Karmen-based 119L 6.3kg with extra reinforcement on the rails (without pad)
I know a guy here (Hossegor) who have his SUPs made in Portugal by Wasp and is quite satisfied with them. They have an impressive range, and excellent reputation: waspboards.com/sup/
And as AlexF said, some production brands can make you custom boards, ask them.(*) E.g:
I own a 8'2" Blue Carbon Spice which is a great surfing board, Jack of All Trades. It weighs 17.5 lbs which is heavier than I like but the board is bombproof. I'm excited about the Acute Carbon and the Twin as I Love Twins w trailers on my regular surfboards. The price is daunting !!! However, in the end I'm waiting on some Regular Joes reviews. I trust the guys at SUPBoarder Mag but they were on the really small size.
Select to expand quotecolas said..Ber said..
I wouldn't know where to go to. But it sounds very interesting. I'm from the Netherlands, do you know where I should go?
For these open questions where you do not know where to start, a first pass with ChatGPT(*) is a good way to get leads, that you can then explore and feed into google searches to refine them.
You can find SUP shapers, or:
- sailboard shapers: top notch construction, but must know the type of rocker needed for SUP
- surfboard shapers: I would avoid, they do not know how to make strong and light boards with high volume. Plus the SUP rockers are different (faster)
I would of course recommend Gong, a full carbon custom with PVC sandwich on the deck was 2000 euros last year, but the type of construction can be chosen at will. I chose not the contest/ultralight construction, but one both lighter and stronger than production. Just contact them for discussion on the shape and more info.
To give you an idea, my custom weights in this construction are (they have not a paddle ding nor heel dent after 2 1/2 years of use... like new)
7'10" Alley-based 112L 5.75kg (without pad)
7'11" Karmen-based 119L 6.3kg with extra reinforcement on the rails (without pad)
I know a guy here (Hossegor) who have his SUPs made in Portugal by Wasp and is quite satisfied with them. They have an impressive range, and excellent reputation: waspboards.com/sup/
And as AlexF said, some production brands can make you custom boards, ask them.(*) E.g:
Thanks Colas!
Select to expand quoteAlexF said..
IMO they have quite huge gaps betwenn the offered volumes in the bigger sizes. For my 93 kg i'd like to have something bwtween 130 - 140 litres.
125 is a tad too small for choppy conditions, 150 seems too big for my taste. Hmm?
You totally right. I would normally go for around 130l . 125l could be okay but it is a bit of gamble because the board is only 30' wide. But 150l that's normally way to much!
Select to expand quoteShlogger said..
I own a 8'2" Blue Carbon Spice which is a great surfing board, Jack of All Trades. It weighs 17.5 lbs which is heavier than I like but the board is bombproof. I'm excited about the Acute Carbon and the Twin as I Love Twins w trailers on my regular surfboards. The price is daunting !!! However, in the end I'm waiting on some Regular Joes reviews. I trust the guys at SUPBoarder Mag but they were on the really small size.
Yes, you are right, hopefully it won't be long before we find a review of a regular guy, surfing a regular size.
The 8"3 125l limited edition wil be 7,9kg (17.4 lbs). That's about the same as your carbon 8"2 spice!
Maybe that's good enough for me.
Select to expand quoteBer said..
The 8"3 125l limited edition wil be 7,9kg (17.4 lbs). That's about the same as your carbon 8"2 spice!
Be wary that stated weights on web sites may not be the same as actual weights :-)
Also, Shlogger may have weighted his with fins on?
Select to expand quoteBer said..Shlogger said..
I own a 8'2" Blue Carbon Spice which is a great surfing board, Jack of All Trades. It weighs 17.5 lbs which is heavier than I like but the board is bombproof. I'm excited about the Acute Carbon and the Twin as I Love Twins w trailers on my regular surfboards. The price is daunting !!! However, in the end I'm waiting on some Regular Joes reviews. I trust the guys at SUPBoarder Mag but they were on the really small size.
Yes, you are right, hopefully it won't be long before we find a review of a regular guy, surfing a regular size.
The 8"3 125l limited edition wil be 7,9kg (17.4 lbs). That's about the same as your carbon 8"2 spice!
Maybe that's good enough for me.
Acute will be 2 lbs lighter w more reactive flex. That's sooo tempting but I'm also not crazy about the dark color. The Florida sun is brutal. I know the foam core is denser which helps but I don't think it's an absolute.
