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Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) - Could this be the future of the SUP/Foil Industry??

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Created by The Surfboard Warehouse > 9 months ago, 20 May 2018
20 May 2018 8:46AM
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Hey Guys,

It's been a while since we have posted on the Breeze, so I thought it might be a good idea to give everyone a little insight into what has been happening behind the scenes.

Over the last year we have been working on some exciting new developments in a few key areas, one of which is product design and testing. I have attached a video of some of our latest work utilising Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) to analyse product designs and concepts. We have been testing our models as well as others to compare shape profiles and access information that would otherwise not actually be possible without this technology.... It has been extremely useful in the refining of product shapes and future development.

At present we are testing paddle designs, foils, surfboards and sups and you can see more details here:

www.thesurfboardwarehouse.com.au/brand-ambassadors/luca-oggiano/

I would really like to hear your thoughts on this technology? What you guys think? And what you would like to see in the future?

Cheers
Andrew
The Surfboard Warehouse

Video Link: (If you click through you can see a total of 10 videos demonstrating paddle designs, sup testing and even sup vs sup)

cantSUPenough
VIC, 2131 posts
22 May 2018 6:01PM
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Well done! I have always wondered if this technology was being used on board and foil design. Even though you may not make fins, it would be interest to have Luca analyze and explain the effect of different fin designs at different speeds (i.e. thruster versus quad on small waves versus large, fin shapes, fin sizes, etc.).

Where are the other videos you mentioned above - I could not see them on your site?

JEG
VIC, 1469 posts
22 May 2018 9:18PM
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Interesting designs and also look into board construction and quality.

colas
5364 posts
22 May 2018 8:22PM
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FCS has used this (+ tests in water tunnels) already to design the nexus fins (the v1, the silver ones). It was interesting, because the best theoritical fin design was not the best one for surfing. For instance, pro riders preferred the acute edge on the traditional leading edge of flat-sided side fins rather than the more hydrodynamic rounded edge of the nexus. They then made the v2 (black) by combining CFD with empiric / heuristics design recipes, notably for toe-in & cant.

Same with the Quobba fins, CFD designed, but they say that one design happen to just work in real life, but they didn't really anticipated it.

For boards, I guess the issue is to understand first how the board travels in the water (not in a straight line, you will need real life testing in the water for this), and then to understand what are the desired effect: what are you trying to enhance? It may be quite different than just simply reducing drag.

Firewire has already made this effort.
firewiresurfboards.com/the-wire/sci-fi-enters-cfd-scientific-dissection-surfboard-performance
But they are only trying to analyse the existing. The real test would be to be able to predict a board performance from its CAD shape...

23 May 2018 9:27AM
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Select to expand quote
cantSUPenough said..
Well done! I have always wondered if this technology was being used on board and foil design. Even though you may not make fins, it would be interest to have Luca analyze and explain the effect of different fin designs at different speeds (i.e. thruster versus quad on small waves versus large, fin shapes, fin sizes, etc.).

Where are the other videos you mentioned above - I could not see them on your site?






Hey CantSUPenough, Thanks for your feedback. Here is the link to some of the preliminary tests completed:

www.thesurfboardwarehouse.com.au/s-lab/ (just scroll down to the CFD section and there will be a playlist)

My web guy hasn't put the best descriptions on the videos (sorry about that) but the illustrations demonstrate the following:


1) Paddle comparison on 3 of our most popular SUP models (set weight and varied weight up to 110kgs, comping buoyancy and drag)
2) Paddle comparison in real world environment (side rock, paddle strokes, weight shift and water chop)
3) Paddle stroke (drag, lift and flex)
4) Board Concave (flat VS vee VS double VS augmented double)
5) Maneuverability (turning arc based off board and tail designs)
6) Surf stall (shedding speed)
7) Surfboard comparison on 3 of our most popular models

We are currently working on foils and fins but are still only in the preliminary test phase on these projects and still analysing the data. Hope you enjoy the extra clips!


Cheers

Andrew

The Surfboard Warehouse

23 May 2018 10:02AM
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colas said..
FCS has used this (+ tests in water tunnels) already to design the nexus fins (the v1, the silver ones). It was interesting, because the best theoritical fin design was not the best one for surfing. For instance, pro riders preferred the acute edge on the traditional leading edge of flat-sided side fins rather than the more hydrodynamic rounded edge of the nexus. They then made the v2 (black) by combining CFD with empiric / heuristics design recipes, notably for toe-in & cant.

Same with the Quobba fins, CFD designed, but they say that one design happen to just work in real life, but they didn't really anticipated it.

For boards, I guess the issue is to understand first how the board travels in the water (not in a straight line, you will need real life testing in the water for this), and then to understand what are the desired effect: what are you trying to enhance? It may be quite different than just simply reducing drag.

Firewire has already made this effort.
firewiresurfboards.com/the-wire/sci-fi-enters-cfd-scientific-dissection-surfboard-performance
But they are only trying to analyse the existing. The real test would be to be able to predict a board performance from its CAD shape...




Totally agree Colas, A combination of real world testing and CFD can help us to further progress design (or simply quantify what we already know with scientific data... which is still really cool).

I am aware of 3D fins and Firewire's work in relation to CFD and it is actually what got us started with CFD. Firewire surprisingly are using Openfoam to conduct their CFD analysis which unfortunately is rather limited in its capacity (it is a free opensource program which has a few limitations and test restrictions). The tests in the link you provided are based on a board that is actually static (stationary) and the water is the moving around the object which unfortunately does not translate well in the real world.

Currently we are using STAR-CCM++ which has better processing power and offers a wider range of test formats which in turn allows us to digitally create turning arcs, stalls and even waves in real world scenarios (you can see some of our tests in the link I provided cantSUPenough are static whilst others are free flowing).

I will be sure to checkout FCS Nexus fins as I hadn't heard about their CFD analysis till now. Thanks.

Cheers
Andrew
The Surfboard Warehouse



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"Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) - Could this be the future of the SUP/Foil Industry??" started by The Surfboard Warehouse