Board for choppy+wind+current conditions

I would advocate a Simmons shape:

- ultra wide tail for catching anything with ease (exploiting all the power of the wave lifting the tail on takeoffs)

- deep concave on the tail to ease rail to rail and control

- wide nose, but not squared, for maximum paddling speed and not blocking on chop. This is important, square noses paddle like anvils.

You may have to go custom for such a shape nowadays I guess. Most modern shapes have less extreme tails.For instance, in the Gong line, the Mob would be the closest to a Simmons currently.Some discussions of these shapes:
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/DIY-Simmons-Style-Sup?page=1
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Review/New-6-10--Simmons-SUP?page=1My Gong "AS" Simmons in 8'0"
the one on the left



My 6'10" simmons in chop and weak "waves". Note how the wide tail allow to keep the rear foot on the tail for turns, without stalling and killing the speed.

The gong shaper, Patrice Guenole, in Corsica on my 8'0" AS Simmons

Hi, thanks, my conditions are closer to the videos of Colas, but he is more skilled than me. The questions is also the size, how much bigger in width and volume than my stubby 8'2" x 29" x 105 l to be stable in those bad conditions? On the other hand, the brands call stability in different ways. For example my longboard gong NFA 9'0" XS x 28"3/4 is not as stable as my stubby, but acceptable if a keep my feet close to the axis.
Another option could be NFA 8,0" x 29' 15/16" x 110 l, and Jimmy lewis super frank 8' x 30" x 115 l or 8'0 x 31,5" x 128 l. How far in width and volumen to go? I prefer not to buy taking risks.

I have an 8 super Frank that I Iove in these conditions. At your weight the lean would be the way to go. It's not the fastest paddler but on small waves it rips.

Hi!

Currently I am also looking for a board that can handle these kind of conditions. I am 83kg and use a Karmen 7'11" with 105L. This is an awesome surfing board. I use it as a twin and it turns like hell. It can handle big waves, gets fast is light and gives everytime control. On the downside, it doesn't paddle really well against chop and wind. At my home spot in the Baltic Ocean paddling into the peak and around could really get exhausting. Ive recognised that, changing around my board with other people and have a go with another brand. It is definitely possible to have an easy time standing around but I was never happy with the surf qualitys of the other boards.
I have my eyes on Smik Hipster Twin, Infinity Escape Pod and Sunova (not sure wich one). Really interesting is the other Tip from Colas, Wasp Boards. He seems to have a board for every possible condition.
I've tried the early Tomo Style MOB from Gong, which could easy catch a rail but gets immediately fast and throw you off if the surf gets bigger or the wave face shows some chopp. Newer Mob maybe don't have these issues because new Nose and thinner and sharper rails. Also the zero 9'0" was in my quiver. Had a great time in any kind of waves and great stability whilst waiting for the next wave, but it was also a slow paddler when wind and chop. I believe the wide nose and deep spoon under the nose was just pushing to much water. If I could get the zero again, without the spoon and maybe a little bit narrower in the front I would take it again. Surfing the zero was awesome.
Let me know if you find a board thats perfect. I would really appreciate some other impressions.

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jvriesinga said..
I have an 8 super Frank that I Iove in these conditions. At your weight the lean would be the way to go. It's not the fastest paddler but on small waves it rips.

I guess you have the wide super frank, 8 x 31,5", 127 l. Which is your weight? I've found one second hand of this model but maybe it's too big for me and paddles slow because of the width, right? And how stable is it in choppy and wind conditions? Thanks

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BalticFlip said..
Newer Mob maybe don't have these issues because new Nose and thinner and sharper rails. Also the zero 9'0" was in my quiver. Had a great time in any kind of waves and great stability whilst waiting for the next wave, but it was also a slow paddler when wind and chop. I believe the wide nose and deep spoon under the nose was just pushing to much water.

On the Mob, yes, the first models had a square (actually a "diamond") nose, and thus did not paddle well in chop.The current models however is what I think is an optimal nose for early wave entry.

Note that the Mob is a small wave board, and can get overpowered quickly, especially if you oversize it.
But it comes now also in "rad" versions (thinner and less volume) for a bit better handling in bigger waves, at the expense of a bit weaker small wave performance (nothing is free...)

The Zero is a technical board, with a very efficient (flat) nose rocker, but needs experience to exploit. (you need to move on the board). What you experienced is how a flat entry rocker is technical to manage in chop.
The NFA is simpler to understand. More "all terrain".

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BalticFlip said..
But I don't want to talk about this one board, but rather about the fact that in wind and chop, it's really important to be able to move forward well to very well. So which board can do that well?

For me, it is a wide nose for stability and lift, but semi-pointed to no block in chop, and enough rocker for your level.
In the Gong line, the Mob.
The Karmen also, but a bit less.

I can think of the two boards that I have been on recently which were super stable in da chop.

One is my 8'2" Starboard Spice. Perhaps too much volume for you, but the 7'11" might work... The other is the Infinity escape pod, which is a twinny that I tried out in california. It was very stable. I tried the 7'11" and was surprised I could ride on such a short board at my weight and skill level...which is perhaps advanced intermediate.

If you're based in spain you may look for a (used) Quatro Glide 8'0 or 8'2, the board before the recent model.
I guess there are some boards around since the Europe headquarter of Quatro/KT/Goya is located in Tarifa, Spain.
I have a 2019 Glide 8'6, 130 liter, for my 94 kg and like it a lot in clean conditions but also if there is some chop, where i probably could easily ride the 8'8 145 liter for even more stability without losing too much agility.
The shape has a wide tail and pointed nose, some rocker and is quite fast since i use it as a twin with a pair of keel fins.
And it paddles much faster than the 7'11 F-One Papenoo Stubby custom, 30' wide, 130 liters, that i had before.

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Sideshore said..
Hi. I live in a place with lots of waves but since I began to sup surf there are more and more people surfing everywhere. The surfing schools is now a big industry, not respecting anything. The result is that I have to go sup surfing in second soft peaks with less people but waves don't push, break badly, currents, etc. The number of good days are less and less with my current board.

I try to find boards to take advantage of these peaks. I can handle 100 litres for my 70 kg in good conditions but I think now there are bigger and wider boards which turn well for my weight. I already have a longboard for soft peaks, now I'm refering only to stable boards for choppy+light wind+currents peaks, which could fit in my car (8' to 8'2"), as long as possible to catch as many waves as possible in an easy way. I only go for small to medium size waves.

I'd appreciate suggestions of boards around 115-125 litres which could comply these conditions.

Hi Sideshore

You may consider the Ghost 8'5 x 30.2 at 118 liters
The Ghost is a very stable board and surfs much shorter than it's length
Fast in weak conditions, easy to turn from mid board and handles many conditions!

I am 77 yo, now down to 81 kg and ride an 8'5 Ghost easily

Here is my design discussion and video clips video that shows me at 98 kg, on my 9'1 Ghost


Good luck in your search!

Any questions please ask

Peace
Rick Weeks

Picture of me at 85 kg on my 8'5

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colas said..

BalticFlip said..
But I don't want to talk about this one board, but rather about the fact that in wind and chop, it's really important to be able to move forward well to very well. So which board can do that well?

For me, it is a wide nose for stability and lift, but semi-pointed to no block in chop, and enough rocker for your level.
In the Gong line, the Mob.
The Karmen also, but a bit less.

Hello Colas. Coming back to this topic, I'm thinking of changing my fanatic stubby 8'2" x 29" x 105 by a board plus stable in choppy and wind conditions. After all, I'm doubting among Mob cool 7'6" x 78 cm x 120 l, Mob Rad 7'11" x 79 cm x 125 l and Mob Rad 7'6" x 76 cm x 105 l. I want to get a real plus in stability (the fanatic is not bad), and turning easily for my weight (71 kg). Mushy small waves are an important target, but some times conditions are better, so just a bit more polivalence would be appreciated.
Thanks.

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colas said..

Hello Colas. Coming back to this topic, I'm thinking of changing my fanatic stubby 8'2" x 29" x 105 by a board plus stable in choppy and wind conditions. After all, I'm doubting among Mob cool 7'6" x 78 cm x 120 l, Mob Rad 7'11" x 79 cm x 125 l and Mob Rad 7'6" x 76 cm x 105 l. I want to get a real plus in stability (the fanatic is not bad), and turning easily for my weight (71 kg). Mushy small waves are an important target, but some times conditions are better, so just a bit more polivalence would be appreciated.
Thanks.

your board is 73cm wide, I would say the Mob 7'11" rad, for a big step in lateral stability, while not going too short and loose too much longitudinal stability or too much volume.

The other option fore bigger wave sizes would be a Karmen, but the 7'11" will be less stable than your stubby, and the 8'4" will be not stabler (a bit more max width but less wide in nose an tail).

This said, as I weight 98kg, and not going out much in chop, it is hard for me to anticipate exactly your needs at 71kg...

A colleague recommends me the 7'6" cool very much, and I have a NFA 9'0 XS for soft waves. The 7'11" rad seems a little big, does it have anything apart from the length and overal width different from the 7'6" cool, let's say the rocker, which makes it looser than the 7'6" cool? IT is a bit earlier catcher, I know.

Thanks.

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Sideshore said..
A colleague recommends me the 7'6" cool very much, and I have a NFA 9'0 XS for soft waves. The 7'11" rad seems a little big, does it have anything apart from the length and overal width different from the 7'6" cool, let's say the rocker, which makes it looser than the 7'6" cool? IT is a bit earlier catcher, I know.

Thanks.

I have the 7'6" cool myself and I enjoy it a lot. I never used my 9'0" Zero since I got it, I find the Mob catches waves nearly as easily a my 9'0".The rad is the same shape (but stretched) and rocker as the cool, the difference is that the rails have less volume.The rad is made to be able to handle more powerful waves, but at the expense of accelerations in mushy waves and a bit of lateral stability. The rad thinner rails dig better in the wave face at speed, but can bog down when turned without enough speed compared to the cool.

Note that your stubby feel cumbersome because of the square nose on a long shape (for a stubby), that add swing weight and the risk of catching the front rail in tight turns.
A board of the same 8'2" length but with a more pulled-in nose (like the Gong Mob or Karmen, or Sunova Ghost) will paddle faster and be more nimble in turns.

The mini-simmons type boards are so fun in everything from crappy wind swell to good waves that aren't that steep or overhead. I usually start surfing at first light when I can barely see the waves, surf the peaks I want to, then move to marginal secondary peaks when the crowd fills in. For those softer weirder waves, I also like a longboard if they have some run to them, the short simmons boards so fun cause you can do cuttbacks on smaller waves.

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Sideshore said..

Hello Colas. One more board to take into account, what about the NFA 8'0" for choppy conditions? What I don't understand is that Gong says the nfa 8 works with smaller waves than the mob 7'6" cool 120, but the mob is a machine of turning tight in small waves, right? On the other hand the mob could be overflow in bigger fast waves more than the NFA, right? Which board could be more polivalent in slow+fast and small+medium waves? Thanks.

On very weak waves, the NFA 8'0" has a bit more paddling speed because it has less rocker and can be used as a single fin for the less possible drag.

However, The Mob can be pushed hard on its wider tail, to generate more speed, and quad or twin setups pumps better.

So, on weak waves, the NFA will be better for a casual riding style, where you exploit the natural glide of the board. The Mob if you like to pump the board in turns to generate speed.

When waves get bigger, the NFA can handle it with its more pulled-in tail, and the ability to move the center fin back. The Mob can handle bigger waves too, but you will have to "nurse" your turns: a mix of shed a bit of speed before cranking a hard turn, rear foot totally on the tail, and let the board roll and bite the rail into the water.

So both work, it depends on your style: Cool => NFA, radical ==> Mob.(I guess Kisutch has a radical style from what he says)