A (next) SUS board for really messy onshore chop?

First post here...I've been "lurking" here and StandupZone for awhile. But decided to post here as the forum seems more active(?).

So, question:

What board would you guys recommend for a beginner-intermediate SUP surfer for really mushy onshore waves? (Finland, Baltic Sea). 6'0", some 190 lbs (85kg, 184cm...and maybe 200lbs/>90kg with full 6/5/4 winter suit + gloves & boots).

Some background:

I currently paddle and surf a huge Starboard 12' Big Easy, 12'x32"x4,6", "scoop nose", single concave to flat to v - which catches the minimal waves and glides well in general. I've surfed the board in our "crazy" conditions through the winter some 15 times and are even getting it to turn some or at least going down the line somehow and trim. As you progress I guess the logical step is to go shorter/lower volume at some point? (and buy another board for flat water/touring/downwinding)

The problem here is that our waves are pretty much crappy on anyone's standard. We only got waves when it is windy,real windy. And I don't mean slight breeze but heavy onshore at 20-30 knots. Typically where I surf only 1-3 feet of size. Five hours drive can get me into a slightly bigger ones, but rarely bother.

Many people here ditch the idea of sup surfing completely because of our conditions. Still, I found the benefits weight out the negatives: paddling out might be easier prone but (for me) it is SO much easier to catch chaotic windswell waves with big gliding, high volume board! EDIT: + IMHO keeping position in the choppy line-up is easier/physically less demanding with a paddle.

The runs are also much longer due the early entry. Also, at some spots there is some shelter and with a big board you can catch minimal but more "organised" swell behind points or islands etc. There is not that much power in the waves though...so the sheltered spots only offer very small/weak waves - suitable for the big board (bonus is no crowds at all).

I'd love to learn to surf a longboard style SUP well. I'd picture in the range of 10-11', 29-30", 4", maybe 140-150l of volume. E.g. Naish Nalu 10'6" seems quite "right". The question is where goes the limit in narrowness and low volume in the heavy wind/chop? Ok, I realize that it is relative and dependent on skill level...but roughly? Paddling out upwind is always going to be hellish workout here - so I wonder if the big/very stable board is the only option to enjoy the surf at all? Or would a stubbie/mini-Simmons etc. add something to the experience, besides falling a lot? More and better turns maybe, even just when in the white wash?

EDIT: There is also some spots, very shallow and steep SLABS where hard core short board guys go when there's enough swell. Those are out of count on a big tanker...but I've wondered if "stubbie" would open up possibilities for spots. But these are hard for even skilled short boarder, example here, see 2.03 and 2.30, a former pro Finnish-Mexican Kalle Carranza, one of the few guys who can make it looks good here

Some people seem to praise the stubby ones for surfing the chop...but has someone any experience surfing them on super crappy onshore conditions like us? I remember there was some guy here from Holland (or Germany?) who asked pretty much the same, I just couldn't find the old thread on that one?

Longboard style is what I like aesthetically but do I progress/gain more from going shorter/wider, surfing wise? On a prone surf I can just catch waves at angle, go down the line and do gradual turning (on good waves up to head high), but no sharp cutbacks or smacking the lip yet. On a SUP I definately get more waves but stepping into the tail of the 12' tank and getting it to turn is a skill in itself. Anyway, I get kicks every time I manage to walk the board some - no real nose riding yet, but getting there.

Below (and profile picture) is an example of our conditions...windswell, small & messy, super short period, almost like riding downwind waves but near the beach (Oh and forget the dorky "swinging the paddle in the air" stance ...just learning to use the paddle properly when surfing)

(And yes the obvious answer is move the hell away from here or learn wind/kitesurfing...? But let's try to forget that one for a moment )

Wow - I will never complain about our conditions again...

I would personally recommend a board with plenty of width, e.g. 32", but you should wait for people with more expertise/experience in nasty conditions.

Hi,
There are some "Vikings" on the Gong forum too, you may want to read, among them Magnus (MagW), as sas81 said, see his posts:
www.gong-galaxy.com/forum/search.php?author_id=53715&sr=posts (click on the links right to "Sujet du message")
E.g: www.gongsup.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=3688&start=75
And his vids:

Be careful to not get a too short board at first. You need some month of practice on a long (> 10') board before going shorter if you want. For instance pay more attention to the earlier posts of Magnus: now he likes a lot a 8' but it is after lots of practice.
And of course, WIDE, otherwise it will be hell in your conditions.
I guess you can find boards that will turn better than your current board by having more surf-oriented rails, rocker and a bit less volume in the rails, and getting down a tad in length (but still 10'+).
A "longboard" shape is good as the wide nose adds to stability and the rocker keeps the glide in weak sections. But you want to avoid the pure noseriders to gets boards with a bit of rocker for ease in chop. In the Gong line for instance, it means the NFA

These kind of boards would be good: 10'x33", 25cm total rocker gongsupshop.com/epages/box1707.sf/fr_FR/?ObjectPath=/Shops/box1707/Products/GONSUPBORDER10 but with real surfing rails & rockers, here the 9' I have for my wife:



gongsupshop.com/epages/box1707.sf/fr_FR/?ObjectPath=/Shops/box1707/Products/GON5SUPNFA11

I would avoid the inflatables, they do not like chop.

And of course you are welcome to ask questions to them on the Gong forum too.

Thanks. Great answers.

I'll get back to this with more detail later (gotta work now).

Just wanted to add that of course sometimes it can be like e.g. side shore for three days in a row and enough swell produced that you can get even some semi-protected waves that wrap around some. Also, best option is straight onshore for a few days and then you go surfing right after it mellows out - this just requires perfect timing. Most of the times the wind is involved, and it's onshore or slight side shore usually. The problem is short fetch (especially here where I live, Helsinki, Bay of Finland, which is almost like a lake) which doesn't produce long-lasting swells at all. On the west cost and on some spots in the SW archipelago you can get a tad more long fetch swells, creating slightly better quality waves (and the Swedes also got this a bit better as usually...meaning they have more open sea around).

And Colas - that video you posted looks like the best possible conditions here, very nice. Never scored it that good here but I know it is possible, you just gotta follow weather forecast, wind guru etc. closely and be able to leave the office/home very quickly when needed...not to mention hikes in the forest, paddling through the ice etc. involved (anyway, loving' it and I guess it is always good to go outdoors and DO something!)

Hi BreezeJ

Bic makes a 10'6" x 31.5" AceTech model. This board is super stable, around 180 litres, and super strong. It has a PVC wrap which adds some extra weight, which is very useful in the type of conditions you want the board for.

It comes with a big centre fin which does the board no favours, but if you put a smaller centre (7.5") forward in the box and some smaller side bite fins, the board will be transformed into a very surfable but stable board in windy chop.

i have this board for the very same conditions as you describe and love the way it surfs. I assume Bic will be available in your part of the world and I would expect the price will be less than the big name boards. Here in Australia this board would sell in a package for around $1100 and they really are very strong.
Good luck

Ok, I'll try to do a little summary here. Thanks for all the answers, lots of good information!

But first off...today was one those crazy onshore days here. Tried a new spot, and managed to lost a GroPro (luckily just the basic hero model) - got greedy and tried to get to the bigger outside wave (which was worse anyway...nice drop but the wave died out immediately). Then, Inspired by the video above...paddled way inside on a protected bay and found a nice almost clean knee high peeler...and got tens of small but fun waves. Not too long runs but still around 30-40m at best ( =good for our little sea!)

Also tried the 12´Starboard first time single finned (normally 2 + 1) - liked that. A bit more unstable in the chop but somehow it felt easier to trim on the wave. Didn't turn much just tried to get down the line and trim on the mini waves...but still, the board felt more lively and I felt I could "feel the trim" better (does that make any sense?)

But here something I've gathered from the thread:

- Wide is good. But I'd say to a certain point. Today I prone paddled the 12' 32" some to the onshore wind - it worked ok, I'd like to keep that, sometimes it is just the most efficient way because of the lower wind resistance (I guess over 33", prone paddling pretty much sucks?). I also took some mini-waves prone...just for the kicks and the practice (will do prone surfing more when travelling, 1-2 times a year). Also, I am not very explosive but I know I have a good balance and ok strength (from years of skiing/telemarking/snowboard and mtb...on mtb I was ok on "skinnies" when I was younger...relatively much better than on dh speeds/big jumps etc.) So, I feel that I'd do okay with around 30-31" wide board. Or keep 32" but go shorter.

- Length wise I guess somewhere around 10' is good for my next board. Something to challenge myself...but again, not too much shorter than the current board. I am afraid that 8'8" or so wouldn't work on many days here (even though I could manage it on better/bigger waves)

- I like the (traditional) longboard shape, and I love the concave "scoop nose" on the current Starboard, it has saved my ass many times already...I'd like the next one to have concave nose with just a bit less volume/thickness and especially with thinner rails --> Nalu has concave to double concave to v (vs. Big Easy concave to flat v)

- Big Easy is 205l, The gong mentioned 195 and BIC also 180l. Whopper is 171l (another interesting option, but a bit too wide - or so I think now). The shorter Gong Epoxy might be another option too. Nalu 10'6 is 160l and 11' 175l. I like to do a clear "step" down but not too much...around 160-170l feels that it might work?

- On paper the Nalu 10'6" or 11' look pretty good. Sas81's experience from the North Sea also supports this. I might get better price on Starboard though. Also, there are local shapers - custom is not totally out of count (around 10'5" x around 31"-32" x around 4-4,5"..with enough rocker for chop and concave nose. Around 170l probably)

I guess I do now what Colas suggested - get lots of paddling and all the surfing I can on the current "tanker". Summer tends to be mostly flat anyway. And probably buy a new board next fall. From the production boards Nalu somehow rings the bell now. But I'll search for other options too.

PS. I also try to get a windSUP option for the Big Easy for the summer (it has the mast head insert), lots of super nice moderate wind summer days here to practice windsurfing. Not sure of the kite (yet)...I've decided to learn the basics of windsurf first (have some very basic windsurf experience from the 80s, heh. Btw. 42 this fall, still have lots of years to learn new things I guess? )

You have more info here: (in French) www.gong-galaxy.com/magazine/pics/1-hour-4-boards/
Basically, it is your classic all-around longboard shape, with enough rocker for ease of handling, and more thinned out rails & tail & nose than most SUPs. But nowadays you can find this kind of shape in many brands, if not most.

Gong has made this kind of shape since 2007, labelled it the NFA for "No Friends Attitude", as I can take off on anything :-) declined in many variant along the years, here more geared for beginners (wider and less expensive construction)

Note that the thinned rails, if they are so great in surfing, may not be pleasant for non-surfers who would rather have boxy rails for a more stable feeling. For instance my wife doesnt use the border anymore (she doesn't surf) since I got her a 10' inflatable she feels much more secure on. This is why most brands shyied away at these thin rails for their mainstream lines. Definitely a great shape for a SUP beginner with a surfing past or inclination, not the best otherwise.

But I keep the border for me and lending to friends.

Some pics www.gongsup.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=68059#p68059
A video in biscarosse (close to hossegor)

Yes, sounds reasonable.

Another option is Starboard Widepoint (as said might get a good price on Starboard). 9'5" fits the specs...at 153l. More pointy nosed but otherwise seems good: 153l, continuous mono-concave to v at the tail, surf oriented rocker and rails.

Also, those Gong Boards seem quite affordable and I like the idea of 9' length for a bit easier logistics and handling off the water.

Welcome and great question. Where I live often a big swell is associated with strong winds and unsurfable beach breaks. We have a bay - baysurf that can break head high then, but a moderate paddle out to the waves through current. As you know the issue is chop, getting broadsided and at some stage having to paddle into the strong wind. I have seen guys I know who are good surf suppers come out undergunned both with length and especially width. As a result the risk is spending time in the water, kneeling or sitting on your board and then getting blown out of your preferred take of zone. As a result if too narrow or short basically many waves are missed.

I am almost you height and weight. From my experience in such really windy conditions I ride my 10'5 starboard widepoint at 175L and 32'' wide. If you have a really short paddle to the break and offshore wind you could go shorter if you wanted but the width is very helpful. In conditions like that 25_30knot winds you get a great workout but if there is a touch of offshore or especially crossshore you can stay upright in the wild conditions the experience is great fun.
Enjoy

Hi,

an update: went to Algarve (Portugal) in the summer - but they didn't rent any wave SUPs on (/for) beach break spots there. Quite strange policy - but on the other hand when checking the conditions there I opted for surfing/learning on my 7'10" funboard (lots of fast, almost closing beach break waves with no obvious channels)

Anyway...just got back from one week trip from Fuerteventura, Canary Islands. Got to try a Naish Hokua GT 9'5" (140l, 29.5" wide) on the "Rocky Point" in Corralejo. Loved the board and had no trouble handling a 140l 29.5" wide board, even in some sidewind. I guess practicing on our chop has its merits in the end!

I was with a teacher (and a more novice friend - first time on a reef break, so he needed some support)...the teacher said to me that I could probably handle a around 130l 32" wide board, even in choppier conditions.

So, after trying the Naish I guess I forget the "longboard" idea, at least for now. It was so fun to accelerate down the line with that board (and I could actually link sections...which on a surfboard is still something I only manage to do with a bit of luck!). And after surfing some more in Finland I think there's not often that clean conditions - that you could really concentrate on the noseriding...trying to stay at the critical part of the wave and trying to link (mini sections) is probably a better strategy. And I can always keep the big tanker for really small waves. Also, for now I feel that I could "step down" a bit more - and get some challenge for a longer time. I also like the idea of the smaller board for transportation.

So, my best bet now/still is a 8'10" Starboard wide point at 140l. Or maybe Naish Hokua X32 GT 8'8" (or 9'1"?). Does that sound good? :) Any ideas of similar, widely available (in Europe) boards?

Yes, Fanatic Allwave is one for the list! Thanks. New Ltd 8'5" or 8'9" maybe...or older used is always an option too!

Great thread, thanks for sharing...I won't offer you any suggestions board wise as there have been good advise given already, but I can say I won't complain about onshore or poor surf conditions again.

Select to expand quote

BreezeJ said..
I wonder how they ship to North Europe?

I think Magnus said once that shipping is 200€ to ship a Gong to Sweden...

Update. And thanks for all the good answers.

Getting a Fanatic Allwave HRS 8'9" @145l. Stoked. I've got a really good deal...got now a 2015 board as a loaner for the winter, and then get a 2016 model in the spring.

Have had couple of really good sessions with the 12' Big Easy lately...suprisingly good. But no pics or Gopro video, gotta buy a new Gopro soon and get some footage too...

Not this good, see the link below! But somehow I've got a feeling that climate change (or some weather pattern right now) is making our little Baltic Sea a better place to surf, see:

magicseaweed.com/news/alluring-slabs-in-the-baltic-sea/8292/

Ok, super rare conditions on that. But I am pretty sure we also have here in Finland "hidden gems" in the outer Archipelago, hard to access slabs and maybe even some point breaks...would be nice to quit working and dedicate a couple of years just for searching (love the stuff that Swedish surfer Freddie Meadows do!)

Maybe 2-3 full days?

I guess the whole point of SUP surf (here) is that even little crappy waves can be surfable. On the other hand, I've noticed that on really hard onshore a prone board is maybe better (thinking about getting either a short(ish) but really fat prone board or a longboard with good volume (80-90l) too...for those windy days when SUP is just too much workout).

Like I wrote before, Always better than sitting on the couch