Haha i don't think it's a game changer!! The board looks longer than what he rides as a SUP DW for foiling now take the fact that this is Dave K son who is a waterman like Dave and how hard he had to paddle to get in to those bumps plus he was riding a 200 wing when i bet for those conditions he would normally be on a IWA i would say.
Always been doable but is it really worth it? it would be sick fun 3km out to sea when you crash and cant get back up. Good novelty side of the sport for those who can do it but for most it would be a dream.
Select to expand quotepaul.j said..
Haha i don't think it's a game changer!! The board looks longer than what he rides as a SUP DW for foiling now take the fact that this is Dave K son who is a waterman like Dave and how hard he had to paddle to get in to those bumps plus he was riding a 200 wing when i bet for those conditions he would normally be on a IWA i would say.
Always been doable but is it really worth it? it would be sick fun 3km out to sea when you crash and cant get back up. Good novelty side of the sport for those who can do it but for most it would be a dream.
There is a bloke up the Northern end of the Goldie called Ibis I know him very well, the bloke rips on a surfboard I remember him coming through the ranks when he was a little grommet sponsored by Billabong when I worked for Surfing Queensland some 20 years ago.
Ibis rips on a surf-foil as well he's good mates with Dowthy who also rips on a surf-foil you'll always see Dowthy riping on his shortboard in the shore dump on the channel 9 news surf report.
Anyway getting back to the story Ibis is doing Downwinders on a 5'5'' Nipper Clubbie board when its NE winds from the Seaway to like Mainbeach-Surfers. BUT Ibis is only a featherweight at like 60kg AND there is an act to it when catching the BUMP.
I was FIRED UP when I heard Ibis doing a surfing foil Downwinder on a Nipper board.
So I went and got my hands on a 6'0'' Nipper board, YES the Nipper board paddled good and fast BUT I was pi@#ing into the wind trying to jump to my feet because ONE, the Nipper board was 18'' inches wide and TWO, I'm like 92kg - 83kg when I'm training hard and keeping off the Corona's. So a Nipper board will work for a lightweight guy.
It's All Trial and Error.
So now I have got my hands on my old 10'6'' Lifeguard Rescue board I'm going to cut 3ft 6''inches of the nose Jack Knight - Jack Knight surfboards from Burleigh is going to re-shape the nose and his son Shaun is going to glass the nose for me for a carton of Corona's
SO if I can catch a BUMP on my knees on a 7ft Lifeguard Rescue board and jump to my feet I will then put a Tuttle box in it and try surf-foiling using the 200 Go-Foil wing. Then down the track, I'll make a Custom LOW PRESSURE Downwind Ocean Prone Surfing-Foil.
I've heard guys saying they can't figure out how to Downwind on their SUP foil yet. But, ONE they've never done a Downwinder on a prone and TWO they've never done Downwind on a 14ft or unlimited SUP. So they are going to be pi@#ing into the wind trying to catch a Bump because they just don't know how to read the Ocean Swells yet to catch a Bump to get up and glide.
Our local hero Nathan van Vuuren has been doing that as well, mostly on 5'6 to 6'0s - says he can't do it yet on his 4'2! But he prefers if there is someone on a SUP around him because then he knows he can always just climb on their SUP and jump back on foil - true story.
Jacko, I agree that, right now, prone downwinding is only the realm of apex watermen, but improvement in equipment and techniques will make it more accessible, Monkey see, monkey do.
A month ago I was still doubtful I'd ever crack the code (as mentioned in another thread) after missioning for a year on partially the wrong equipment and choosing the wrong conditions and being generally clueless. Last 4 sessions I'm actually getting up more or less at will and foiling considerable distances - now it suddenly seems in my reach - prone downwinding will be accessible to most above average surfers in time - just watch.
Dude on instagram called mickmccormick is prone downwinding but land starting and pumping to the wind line, guess thats not the point of this thread but still a serious effort 5km without ****in up
Dont get me wrong it 100% doable on a prone and have seen Jake do it on a 4'5 ONE board but when we put this back into the real world I really just don't see the point.
I ride a 6'1 at the moment for SUP dw and can catch any bump I want then once on the foil I feel I can carve just as well as someone on a surf foil board as this is the ocean and not a wave in the surf. I am going smaller and have a 5'11 and a 5'5 coming as the length really has bugger all to do with getting up once you get the timing right.
I hear the crap about people not wanting to dw on a SUP because they have a paddle in their hand and will look like a sup kook but that is just narrow minded talk from 1% of people to scared to enjoy life for what it really is.
Phill is cutting down a prone board that is still going to be way to big to DW with out a paddle and I am sure if he gets that far he will soon find that out!! The paddle is not a kook stick it's some thing that helps you transfer from bump to bump when you really need it plus it is also amazing how useful it is when the wind drops out you are 3km out to sea o a 6ft or smaller board.
As I say cool novelty for those who can do it or for running alone a surf line just beyond the waves but that's about where I think it will max out. Maybe I will be wrong but I am not rushing out to make 50 prone dw foil boards just yet!!
I agree fully that prone downwinding doesn't make much sense when you can have the same experience with a paddle in hand - with you 100%. The problem is surfers......most won't be seen dead with a paddle in hand + they'd have to learn the technique of paddling a SUP properly before attempting any downwinding, most of them won't do that.
But if they are foiling and they see guys downwinding on their prone foil boards - it's opening a door for them. And about being stuck 3 miles out to sea without a paddle - it sucks, but only fractionally more than being out there with a paddle and still not being able to get up as we've all experienced.
Let's see where it goes - the guys in Maui and your side normally lead the way.
Select to expand quotePeterP said..
I agree fully that prone downwinding doesn't make much sense when you can have the same experience with a paddle in hand
Well, I never tried foil downwinding, but I imagine that in big wind and chop, it can be hell to try to paddle standing up a small board compared to prone paddling it.
Select to expand quotecolas said..PeterP said..
I agree fully that prone downwinding doesn't make much sense when you can have the same experience with a paddle in hand
Well, I never tried foil downwinding, but I imagine that in big wind and chop, it can be hell to try to paddle standing up a small board compared to prone paddling it.
Off foil, it's not that hard to paddle a SUP with a big wing under it, as long as you are going with the wind. I haven't tried prone foil but would imagine it's just a little slower.
Here is my set up for downwind (soon) and ridicoulously small waves: A shortened paddleboard, prone or paddle.
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Been watching this kid last couple of days on his 4'8" prone board taking off in the shore-break and foiling downwind 11km no problem......
www.facebook.com/IvanVanVuuren1/videos/2157228030990856/
Select to expand quotePeterP said..
Been watching this kid last couple of days on his 4'8" prone board taking off in the shore-break and foiling downwind 11km no problem......
www.facebook.com/IvanVanVuuren1/videos/2157228030990856/
Some times they paddle in, but they aren't stuck with it!
www.instagram.com/p/Bq6yjv2nRr-/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=1bl2no9djbsl0
Nate van Vuuren broke our downwind record last week on a Foil-SUP - last night he bettered that record by 3secs using his 4'6 prone-foil.....maybe dwd foiling without a paddle has some merit after all!
www.facebook.com/IvanVanVuuren1
www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2160513623995630&set=pcb.2160518357328490&type=3&theater
that kid is incredible! There was so much (deserved) hype around Kai Lenny's channel crossing times last year that you'd barely notice how close Nathan came to them. Cant imagine he'd even crossed a Hawaiian channel before. To just turn up on the other side of the world and get that close to winning?!?
Select to expand quotePhill is cutting down a prone board that is still going to be way to big to DW with out a paddle and I am sure if he gets that far he will soon find that out!! The paddle is not a kook stick it's some thing that helps you transfer from bump to bump when you really need it plus it is also amazing how useful it is when the wind drops out you are 3km out to sea o a 6ft or smaller board.
As I say cool novelty for those who can do it or for running alone a surf line just beyond the waves but that's about where I think it will max out. Maybe I will be wrong but I am not rushing out to make 50 prone dw foil boards just yet!!
Paul as you would know. You've goto start somewhere.
I have nothing against SUP FOILING Downwind it looks Bulk Fun and all my friends on Maui ( The home of all Downwind water-sports began )
are right into it big-time and loving it.
Let's look at the very first youtube footage of Kai Lenny on a SUP FOILING Downwind it's like 8ft long and whats Kai Lenny weigh 65-70kg = featherweight.
You're saying my PRONE FOIL Downwind BOARD is way to Big at 7ft
You must remember Paul I am a Heavyweight at like 92kg - 83kg IF I'm in training mode. I need the volume to make it easy for myself to HELP ME work it out. The nipper board was a fail because I WAS WAY TO HEAVY FOR IT. Hopefully, I can make a good 6ft PRONE FOIL Downwind Board.
My youth has long gone I'm like 57yo full of surfing injuries and drink more beer with age "Life Is Good" and I'm closer to 60 than 50. When I was Kai Lenny's age I to was like 70kg I looked like Starvin Marvin the little albino Ethiopian my hair was that white, I looked like a POW form WW11
It's only a Prototype board all trial and error.
Look at this South African Kaffir he's Ripping on a PRONE Downwind FOIL and I bet he's a young teenager and is only like 60kg wringing wet he's a flyweight.
www.facebook.com/IvanVanVuuren1/videos/2157228030990856/
This topic has become interesting, as I've been challenging the same questions (with myself) as to the future.
I think the big variable in craft and wings for that matter that are ideal, comes down to conditions. Hawaii, The Gorge, Sth Africa and WA are always going to produce some of the best ocean conditions, they always have. As grom growing up it was always amazing to see guys windsurfing on tiny wave sails doing loops all over the place - meanwhile I am on a 6.5m pumping my arse off.
I have been downwinding in Maui on a SUP since it was a thing way back before boards came with deck grips. Even back then Downwinding was easy compared to doing it here in AUS (east coast) and I was doing them on 11'6" Nalu like prototypes. The first 12' Glide blew our minds in 2008, and it was progressed ever since. However in AUS, I do not DW on SUP at all. They don't even seem like the same sport to me at all.
Foil is kind of similar, except it is fun in AUS style DW conditions. Lots of fun. But what we are riding, much like how history has proved, is much different to what is regular conditions over there.
This said, I think the ultimate is Prone DW/Ocean surfing. And I have done some really fun runs, always with boat support/assist though. About a year ago, I rode with Ridge Lenny (Kai's brother) at Cronulla, we padded out into the ocean and I watched him catch multiple swells and ride endless waves to the horizon. I missed just about everything, leaving with one decent ride that I basically turned myself inside-out to get. Ridge said, even on an epic day on the Maliko run, you can be left sitting there for 20-30 minutes until you get the right bump get up on on some days. (normally a bad day on the Maliko is better than the best day in Aus).
Even on the best runs, you make mistakes and come off the foil. DW on a foil is very slow when you're "not on the foil", and very energy consuming.
For me where SUP has the edge (and I have done tonnes of both), is it is just so much easier to get more bumps, easier to connect more bumps, and I believe I travel faster and turn harder (for the same wing) than when I prone DW. plus I can limp home after the wind goes west on me which has happened quite a few times 
.
The dream is still to prone from Manly to Palm Beach, and I will do it (hopefully) on the right day. But I think my SUP is the go-to weapon the other 99.9% of the time for now.
With your SUP Foilboard and Foil setup correctly (this is where a lot go wrong), your gear will feel light and perfectly balanced, fast and intuitive. The paddle is great for holding your GoPro so you can brag to your mates, and if needed can give you those tiny pops of extra power when needed.
This comment is neither either way. I am hooked on all Foil. But I am liking the convo, so thought I'd add my 2 cents worth. It is all still so new, and a lot of crew out there are still very green. I have done more DW runs than I can remember, but I do remember the one where I "GOT IT". Prior to this I had DW'ed plenty, and done relatively good at it. But when it really clicks, and I mean really clicks - OMG!
Anyway peeps, keep foiling.
Ride safe,
JB
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