New to Prone Foiling, Should/could I also retrofit one of my existing SUP's?

Hi Guys,I'm half way through my first week of the Prone Foiling journey and wow has it been humbling.

But having said that I haven't been this stoked to get in the water and "learn" for ages. I'm probably what you'd consider an intermediate SUP surfer and a slightly lesser prone surfer on midlength boards.

I picked up this Konrad 4'6 board with Naish Surf Foil 55cm mast size M. I've spent the week reacclimatising myself to prone surfing a 36L board and starting to feel more familiar with my positioning, paddling, duck diving but I'm hitting the common beginner hurdle of being completely unfamiliar with the feeling of foiling.

On the very brief moments I've taken flight in the past week it's felt like I'm standing on the roof of a moving car over a pit of swords! I get ejected shortly after.

Having done some reading it seems the fastrack to this is getting towed behind a boat (any volunteers?) foil assist (sorry too much $$$ at this stage) or just keep sticking at it for a few months (most likely option which I'm ok with)

But seeing as I was a better SUP'er than proner to begin with it has me thinking, should I whack the foil in one of my board ECS slab in 7'6 (105L) or 7' (95L) as this may help get me more foil time?

Is retrofitting foil boxes to a standard SUP even a decent option or are dedicated foil SUP's and the foils vastly different?

End goal at this stage is definitely wanting to end up proficient at prone foiling and that being my main go to, but wondering if this was a half decent option to get me there sooner?

I learned on that foil Naish Thrust L 2018. I also learned prone in the surf, by myself with no other foilers around to give me tips. It's possible.

#1 tip. More front foot. Keep the board on the water. This will be difficult with that foil as the early generation foils were constantly trying to THRUST you out of the water. Catch the wave, keep the board on the water, come off the water, put the board back on the water.

#2 tip. Pick your waves very purposefully. Do you have a spot where people go to learn to surf? A spot where the wave just barely crumbles and has no steepness to the face at all. A place where you'd push a 3 year old into waves on a soft top? That's where you want to be. It's difficult though, because you don't want to be around people at the same time. So hopefully there's a corner off to the side you can be alone at. Being around people is just more things to think about at once. You already have 30 things to remember, don't involve watching out for others in the learning process.

#3 tip. You can buy performance at your stage. That is a high performance foil which carves really well. That means it's not very stable in roll side to side. There are slower and more stable foils if you're willing to throw money at the problem.

#4 tip. Do not lean over the rails. Stay centered over the stringer. If the foil goes left, you go left. If the foil goes right, you go right. If you try to correct a foil at your stage by leaning over the rail to correct a turn, the foil will hookup and turn the way it wants to go even harder and you will fall onto a wingtip which is flipping up at you. Don't correct, eject.

#5 tip. More front foot. I can't say this enough.

Select to expand quote

Ju_foil said..
Towed behind boat..Where are you located?

Cronulla, I'm actually looking at paying for a lesson in the next couple of days as they drag you behind a boat as part of it

Select to expand quote

Hdip said..
I learned on that foil Naish Thrust L 2018. I also learned prone in the surf, by myself with no other foilers around to give me tips. It's possible.

#1 tip. More front foot. Keep the board on the water. This will be difficult with that foil as the early generation foils were constantly trying to THRUST you out of the water. Catch the wave, keep the board on the water, come off the water, put the board back on the water.

#2 tip. Pick your waves very purposefully. Do you have a spot where people go to learn to surf? A spot where the wave just barely crumbles and has no steepness to the face at all. A place where you'd push a 3 year old into waves on a soft top? That's where you want to be. It's difficult though, because you don't want to be around people at the same time. So hopefully there's a corner off to the side you can be alone at. Being around people is just more things to think about at once. You already have 30 things to remember, don't involve watching out for others in the learning process.

#3 tip. You can buy performance at your stage. That is a high performance foil which carves really well. That means it's not very stable in roll side to side. There are slower and more stable foils if you're willing to throw money at the problem.

#4 tip. Do not lean over the rails. Stay centered over the stringer. If the foil goes left, you go left. If the foil goes right, you go right. If you try to correct a foil at your stage by leaning over the rail to correct a turn, the foil will hookup and turn the way it wants to go even harder and you will fall onto a wingtip which is flipping up at you. Don't correct, eject.

#5 tip. More front foot. I can't say this enough.

Wow awesome post thanks so much for taking the time to post that

#1: yep I've been working really hard on holding the nose down during my verrrry extended popup process. But would say surf/sup has made me very rear foot dominant

#2: haha my selection process the past week has being so damn stoked that I'm going out in any and all conditions (I'm in Cronulla so mostly Wanda/Greenhills which seems popular with foilers) At the start of the week it was what I'd say are fairly decent learning conditions the past couple we've had 3ft+ and a bit more dumpy so although I got out there it wasn't pretty.

#3: oh bugger I thought this was a good learner foil (albeit a very old model)

#4: heard the eject advice many a time and doing my best to stick with it. One of my ingrained habits from surfing and surf supping has been when falling to try to grab the board or keep it close to me which I know won't end well on the foil.

#5: hahah true that, I just actually need to be standing long enough to impliment this!

Select to expand quote

colas said..

drc13 said..
But seeing as I was a better SUP'er than proner to begin with it has me thinking, should I whack the foil in one of my board ECS slab in 7'6 (105L) or 7' (95L) as this may help get me more foil time?

Definitely!!!

Learning to SUP foil is MUCH easier than surf foiling because you can paddle with the front foot already the the right place, and in a strap to be sure of the placement to the quarter of an inch.

Front foot placement is the key, as HDip said.
You do not need a back footstrap however, it is harder to takeoff with the rear foot in the back strap.
Without a front footstrap, things are worse, as the SUP board is wider, you have too wide a platform, your foot will wander in all the bad places.

I would buy a dedicated SUP foiling board however. Bother because the mast rails will be stronger (SUPs have volume: being caught in whitewater will exert hug stress on them compared to a tiny surf foil board), and that the angle of attack of the foil wing is critical. If you slap boxes on a SUP, you will probably have it wrong unless you are aware of the issue.

PS: Of course, this only applies if you SUP well enough (dont do your take off with parrallel feet)

Awesome thanks for the advice on the SUP side of things.

Strangely even though I'm predominantly a SUP surfer now it's the prone foiling that strongly appeals to me.

I was half way through reading your message and like awesome do I get my 7' or 7.5' board modded with a foil box then got to the next paragraph. Thanks for confirming that it's not as simple as simply whacking a box in one of my existing sups and getting the best of both worlds.

I probably won't invest in a dedicated foil SUP just yet as the goal is prone foiling for now but I may come back to it when I'm fully foil brained

Amazing replies all thanks for the advice

Select to expand quote

drc13 said..

Strangely even though I'm predominantly a SUP surfer now it's the prone foiling that strongly appeals to me.

Surf foiling is definitely more attractive, because you can use the smallest possible board and pump more efficiently.
Plus it is less cumbersome going through whitewater, dealing with chop, etc... not having to manage the paddle is a big plus.

But if you already know how to SUP, I think SUP foiling is a way to progress more quickly, and then "graduate" to surf foiling once you have the foil handling dialed.

Select to expand quote

Hdip said..
It's not that it's a bad foil. It's just very generation 1. Lots of low speed lift that wants to buck you off. Things have become more user friendly as the industry has progressed. The spending money to advance problem doesn't go away even now with generation 3 gear coming out.

EDIT: Cool that you found a spot that other foilers are at. The sport is still new enough that people are friendly and willing to talk and give tips in the water. Try to go out in 1 foot waves if at all possible. 3 foot waves will feel like you're at Mavericks.

Excellent, I have a half believable excuse for when I get bucked off over and over!

Haha I hear you, I didn't think I'd see a lovely clean 3ft set rolling in and rather than being stoked and paddling on, going "oh **** oh ****" and sprinting for the horizon!

Select to expand quote

colas said..

drc13 said..

Strangely even though I'm predominantly a SUP surfer now it's the prone foiling that strongly appeals to me.

Surf foiling is definitely more attractive, because you can use the smallest possible board and pump more efficiently.
Plus it is less cumbersome going through whitewater, dealing with chop, etc... not having to manage the paddle is a big plus.

But if you already know how to SUP, I think SUP foiling is a way to progress more quickly, and then "graduate" to surf foiling once you have the foil handling dialed.

Select to expand quote

baldy123 said..
Welcome to the world of Foiling. When I learnt there were no production Foil SUPs I converted my 8'4 to fit a foil in. It works but in hindsight a surf shape board has too much tail rocker. You end up having to shim the foil base plate to make it work. Dedicated sup foil boards are well worth the investment. I'm onto my 4th SuP Foilboard now. 5th is coming. The benefit of SuP it you can get further away from people. Take off on the shoulder and enjoy why many of us don't surf anymore. I haven't really got into prone as Perth waves are non existent for half the year. You live in a good spot for prone so possibly worth going down that pathway. If you are keen to SUP secondhand boards are always popping up from the downwinding crew. Should be a few Sunovas or One boards floating around. I learnt foiling towing behind a boat (20hp tinny) this a very good option to get your foil Sea legs.

Thanks guys, so what you're saying is it's inevitable I'm going to need a bigger board rack in the garage...So unfortunately with a general lack of boat owning friends I'm going to lay down some $$$ for a lesson with one of the local schools.

Hopefully I can pick up the basics in the hour and get my foil legs which I can then transfer back into my self taught surf lessons.

I have to say the foil community (the people I've met in the water or chatted to on here) is a refreshing change from the usual surf aggro!

Hmmm 3ft again today do I go kook it with the foil again or whip out the sup and actually catch a wave for the first time in 6 sessions

EDIT: Actually I have a follow up question, would my current foil work in a sup setup (say I purchased a board could I use this foil between the prone and sup) an in turn would this board/wing combo also work if I wanted to add a wing to the mix (this is escalating quickly) I know this is all probably incredibly basic stuff, I can get my head around board tech but foils are a whole different world

I am also learning to prone foil.

started on a 1200 square cm foil with 100l wing board. The wing would start to lift on the 3rd or fourth paddle stroke. Everything was happening so quickly I struggled to consistently catch a wave and engage the foil with any kind of control, or knowledge of which direction I would go or how far.

So I tried a 900 square cm front wing. It was more difficult to get the foil to engage. This meant I could paddle catch the wave settle, place feet in exact position, and slowly stand as I engaged the foil. The extra second or two at the take off was an enormous advantage for me. After my take off consistency improved, I learned to turn quickly and pumping followed.

have moved to a 40l board, and am using the larger foil for more glide in the pumping phase. Hoping to start linking waves today!

If you want to mod existing Sup it can be done at home if you are handy, a really good fb group about board building has loads of info. im going to try to learn sup foil, love a challenge.

Select to expand quote

nicpic said..
I'm also starting my prone foiling journey and would appreciate any and all advice. I'm a surfer and have been wing foiling for the last 6months and absolutely loving it. But I'm about to lose the wind for a few months so thought it might be a good time to attempt prone foiling. Was hoping to use my existing gear during the prone learning phase. I have a 110L (5'10 F one Rocket) & a 74L (4'8 AK Compact) board I use for winging. I have a 2200 gravity F-one wing & a 1200 seven seas. 75cm mast. I'm 60-65kg. Before I head on out and drink a lot of seawater for the next few weeks any ideas if any of my existing gear would be doable? the 2200 wing with the 110L were my intro into wing foiling and the combo is like a tank, a very stable one at that, but is it too big for learning to prone?

I've prone foiled my 4'8" 58L cabrinha macro when the wind doesn't cooperate. It's not as good as a dedicated prone board, but it for sure works. It'll be more stable though which is nice. It's just that paddling wide boards is annoying and they are heavier to pump. Completely fine to learn on though. The 110L board will also work as a SUP foil in the surf. Don't expect to flatwater paddle it up though. It's not for that. I always ride a 75cm mast. I would start with the 1200 foil at first. The transition from laying down to popping up to your feet is tricky. This is where the big board will come in handy. You don't want the foil throwing you in the air while you're trying to get up. So keep the foil a tiny bit back if you want to help with that. Stand up 2 inches further than you expect to stand. Keep the board on the water. Lift off, put the board back on the water. Have fun.

Select to expand quote

nicpic said..

Hdip said..

nicpic said..
I'm also starting my prone foiling journey and would appreciate any and all advice. I'm a surfer and have been wing foiling for the last 6months and absolutely loving it. But I'm about to lose the wind for a few months so thought it might be a good time to attempt prone foiling. Was hoping to use my existing gear during the prone learning phase. I have a 110L (5'10 F one Rocket) & a 74L (4'8 AK Compact) board I use for winging. I have a 2200 gravity F-one wing & a 1200 seven seas. 75cm mast. I'm 60-65kg. Before I head on out and drink a lot of seawater for the next few weeks any ideas if any of my existing gear would be doable? the 2200 wing with the 110L were my intro into wing foiling and the combo is like a tank, a very stable one at that, but is it too big for learning to prone?

I've prone foiled my 4'8" 58L cabrinha macro when the wind doesn't cooperate. It's not as good as a dedicated prone board, but it for sure works. It'll be more stable though which is nice. It's just that paddling wide boards is annoying and they are heavier to pump. Completely fine to learn on though. The 110L board will also work as a SUP foil in the surf. Don't expect to flatwater paddle it up though. It's not for that. I always ride a 75cm mast. I would start with the 1200 foil at first. The transition from laying down to popping up to your feet is tricky. This is where the big board will come in handy. You don't want the foil throwing you in the air while you're trying to get up. So keep the foil a tiny bit back if you want to help with that. Stand up 2 inches further than you expect to stand. Keep the board on the water. Lift off, put the board back on the water. Have fun.

Thanks heaps for the tips. Very much appreciated.

If you haven't already, go for it! Just please pick a spot void of other people. That much volume and foil (1200) will catch whitewater like nobodies business! I often paddle my wing or sup gear for various different reasons (go get paddle, decided to surf foil when there's no wind and didn't bring prone gear cause thought there wouldn't be surf, etc.)
A prone board and a good pumping/carving foil beats sup foiling and winging any day if you're a surfer first, though. So worth the investment if you have the conditions for it. Hardest thing in prone is learning to catch the wave with the foil and not wait for the push of the wave like a surfboard. It won't take much of a push with that much volume and a wide board like the AK, so learn to get up fast and pumping out the gate.