Long and skinny has become the go to for DW boards (where paddle speed is critical) but I'm interested to know if anyone who SUP Surf Foils has compared board designs.
I'm currently surfing a 7'10x19@110L DW shape (pictured) but can't help but think there might be a better shape where surf performance is the priority.
It surfs surprisingly well and enables me to catch pretty much any wave I want but I do on occasion tap the nose or tail and I feel the pump could be a little more efficient. I also wouldn't say no to a little more side to side stability in bumpier conditions.
The dims I've pulled out of thin air would be roughly 6'6 x 22 @95L. If anyone has ridden similar shaped boards would I be giving much up vs the DW shape (or on the flip side gaining much?)
It's not easy to find much info on SUP surf, best I've been able to do is watch some footage of locals in Hawaii and even then you'll see a mixture of the older square shaped designs through to barracudas.
I know they'll all "work" but removing DW from the criteria, what's best?
I've SUP surfed foil boards from 6'0 up to 8'2. All around 115L. I'm currently using a 7'6 for everything. The advantage of shorter compact shape is less swing weight which translates into better performance on the wave. The trade-off is that it is much more difficult to catch waves, so your answer lies in what you consider is of more importance to you. My priority is quantity over quality and I'm prepared to lose a little performance on the wave.
It could be location specific, we have mostly beach breaks where getting on to the wave early also allows you to kick out before you are in front of broken waves and having to negotiate aerated water. If your skill level is high enough to deal with this, then it's of lesser consequence.
Interesting topic, I'm still learning the surf foil stuff on a 7' crossover and wondering about going the other way of longer and skinny. Sometimes it's tough to catch the wave at the suitable spot , ie not too steep.
I'm 6'3 and 98kg, and currently use a 8'1 x 20.5 x 128L, it's challenging in choppy conditions and fall off often and if sup is your main game, I'd recommend 22-24 wide x 6'6-6'10 x 120-130L, you'd be able to relax more and probably would have the same wave count by being able to position yourself without falling off. Not many manufacturers are making these. You could dw them too as they'd be narrower than what people learnt on a couple of years ago.
Really depends on your spot and if you get small crumbling waves that are harder to catch then narrower and longer, but if you get peaking and breaking waves wider and shorter would be better.
Amazing thanks for the feedback guys, good to see I'm not the only one thinking about this. Even my DW board isn't at the extreme end of things anymore and it is an absolute wave catching machine but has left me wondering if there's more performance on the table.
Finding any board in those kind of dims to demo is next to impossible around here so if I did commit to getting another board it would be a calculated risk (I'd really want to know beforehand that it will be a noticeable improvement over my 7'10 x 19)
Somewhat frustratingly I already have a custom wing board in my quiver 5'10x20 but at 80L I just think it's going to be a bridge too far to SUP reliably.
The issue is in "theory" I know what the alterations of dims will effect as a whole but by how much for the better or worse I don't know without riding one.
Thinking about my criteria:
Paddle Speed/Glide: My current board allows me to pretty much get on any wave I want. So I'd be willing to give up some of that (shorter/wider) but obviously not to the point I regress to the point I only catch as many as I would proning
Performance: The 7'10 board performs a lot better then I initially expected. But there's no doubt that turns are quite drawn out. I would hope the new board would shorten the radius of the turns allowing me to hang around the pocket a little more.
Pump/Swing Weight: I'd love to see some improvements in this department, I don't expect prone board levels of pump but there is a fairly noticeable difference in my pump between the two setups. Bigger issue is if I get low on the mast I'm more likely to tap the nose or tail on the 7'10. I'd expect the drop in volume would help swing weight and maybe the reduction on length would buy me some time before tapping
Width/Stability: I don't find the 19" particularly hard to stand on but will still often find myself paddling out on it prone and sitting down in between sets. I do wonder if bumping the width to say 22" will add much in the way of stability (realising I'll lose some with the drop in length and volume) and on the flip side how much reduction in glide the width will create.
Thanks for the food for thought, anyone that has ridden both styles I'm all ears for pros/cons
At the moment I'm thinking 7'4" x 20"ish wide as a next board . My worry is that it will be too narrow
Select to expand quotekato said..
At the moment I'm thinking 7'4" x 20"ish wide as a next board . My worry is that it will be too narrow
Tricky for me to say as I had a fair bit of experience in the past on smallish non foil SUP's so jumping on this 7'10x19 as my first SUP foil was all pretty easy (don't get me wrong I still fall a bit once I get some side chop out there)
Without boards to directly compare though I don't know when the drop downs in both length and width really have drastic effects in stability and glide but what I do know (and it's a fairly obvious statement) is that both my prone (29L Mr Bennetts) and wing board (5'10x20@80L) surf better than my DW SUP but there's a huge difference in volume between them so it's kind of a pointless comparison.
I really just wish I could back to back say my 7'10 x 19, a 6'10 x 20, a 6'6 x 22 and a 6'2 x 23 for example. But that's in the realm of fantasy at this stage.
Small surf with not too much current, go to is a shorter wider board. Still love the JL Flying V2 at 6'3" for my 200 lbs. Downwind board works too, but not as much fun most of the time as unless wind on the back, it's tippy and sluggish pumping. Pretty much everyone else who went with one for sup surfing has gone back to the shortest and smallest sup foil board they can ride unless actually doing downwind or riding reefs a long way out. I mostly prone, though, and ride a longer board (Amos Kruiser) than I used to! Maybe the Amos Cypher type board is the one stop shop if you're not chasing down open ocean swells?
Select to expand quoteHwy1North said..
Small surf with not too much current, go to is a shorter wider board. Still love the JL Flying V2 at 6'3" for my 200 lbs. Downwind board works too, but not as much fun most of the time as unless wind on the back, it's tippy and sluggish pumping. Pretty much everyone else who went with one for sup surfing has gone back to the shortest and smallest sup foil board they can ride unless actually doing downwind or riding reefs a long way out. I mostly prone, though, and ride a longer board (Amos Kruiser) than I used to! Maybe the Amos Cypher type board is the one stop shop if you're not chasing down open ocean swells?
Interesting feedback and suggests there could be some gains going back to a shorter board.
95% of the time I'll be surfing Cronulla beach breaks anywhere from 1-6ft with the odd road trip to spots like wategos/pambula. I currently get my fix of the reefs and downwinders via my winging (until parawing or similar takes off)
I have looked at the Cypher and it's already somewhat similar to my current board so if I was going to add another board into the quiver just for this reason I'd probably be going for a more drastic reduction in length.
I would love to try something like this one. it is 7' x 24" . Sup foil surfing, not DW
Hey Kato -
Were on the same mission - Thus ended up putting in a shaping bay / vac bagging etc upstairs in my factory in Braeside.
I've about to complete a 6'10 'crossover' which is 6'10 x 23' x5 and just under 100 litres. Mast track is similar to a DW board - WAY FORWARD , I've kept a lot more width in the nose, tail and managed to hopefully help 'Unstick' the board with sharp tail kick at water exit... A lot of inspiration for this shape is coming from the Parawing / Pocket wing guys in UK.
Im a big believer that your perfect Prone board is the basis for your Mid Length, Wing board, Para Wing Board, SUP and DW boards - the stability and water speed required for lift off governs what dimensions are extended to give you the volumes required.
Video on the shape here -
www.hsfoil.com/category/all-products?sort=newest
Select to expand quotesillsymark said..
Hey Kato -
Were on the same mission - Thus ended up putting in a shaping bay / vac bagging etc upstairs in my factory in Braeside.
I've about to complete a 6'10 'crossover' which is 6'10 x 23' x5 and just under 100 litres. Mast track is similar to a DW board - WAY FORWARD , I've kept a lot more width in the nose, tail and managed to hopefully help 'Unstick' the board with sharp tail kick at water exit... A lot of inspiration for this shape is coming from the Parawing / Pocket wing guys in UK.
Im a big believer that your perfect Prone board is the basis for your Mid Length, Wing board, Para Wing Board, SUP and DW boards - the stability and water speed required for lift off governs what dimensions are extended to give you the volumes required.
Video on the shape here -
www.hsfoil.com/category/all-products?sort=newest
Looks good and well done for having a crack in a crowded market
I'm interested how those thread goes as thinking of building a board for sup foil surf. I tried my DW 7'10 x22" and it was too hard to stand on at my spot where there is a lot of water movement. I can stand on and try flat water paddle ups (no success) on a 8'2" x19" I built. I sup surf ok.
any thoughts on a 7'6"x24" jimmy Lewis style as in above pic? I like the idea behind his shapes, V helping keep paddling in a straight line.
Good to see there's some interest in this, I wish I had a selection of boards at hand to demo and provide feedback on my findings but alas if I make a purchase it will be a calculated risk at this stage.While looking at off the shelf options it also looks like the Armstrong ML100 might fit my ballpark requirements as well
Went long but now back on 5"10 x 28 110L
Jimmy Lewis Flying V2
yes it a later takeoff but much better turning!
performance surfing style.. easier to pump than long DW board
Good feedback, I can accept a later takeoff for better turning and pump.Did you experiment with anything more in between the DW and board you've pictured. Something more like 6'6 x 21ish? If so any feedback?
From my experience short and reasonably narrow is best for SUP foil surfing. I'm using 5'10 * 23" * 92L Egg, I'm yet to find anything better/lighter than this. To be honest I don't know why these boards aren't everywhere. I also wing this board when its very light.
The E3 Kalama's are also great (the narrow ones). Both these boards don't have the paddle in glide of a DW board so you're taking off later but I much prefer them.
Select to expand quoterobbo1111 said..
From my experience short and reasonably narrow is best for SUP foil surfing. I'm using 5'10 * 23" * 92L Egg, I'm yet to find anything better/lighter than this. To be honest I don't know why these boards aren't everywhere. I also wing this board when its very light.
The E3 Kalama's are also great (the narrow ones). Both these boards don't have the paddle in glide of a DW board so you're taking off later but I much prefer them.
Yep pretty much where my thinking is at. Totally understand why DW boards have gone the way they have they have become weapons for glide and going straight quickly but SUP Surf Foil can be crazy fun in the right waves (I'll nearly always take my SUP over my Prone just for wave count)
If I can close the performance gap between them even better!
For me it's now narrowing down (pardon the pun) where the best combo for maintaining the great wave catching ability while adding increased manouverability, pump and potentially stability lies.
I feel it's somewhere between 5'10 - 6'10 and 19-23 width but exactly where I don't know.
Out of interest what's your weight and are you happy with the 92L volume?
Select to expand quoterobbo1111 said..
From my experience short and reasonably narrow is best for SUP foil surfing. I'm using 5'10 * 23" * 92L Egg, I'm yet to find anything better/lighter than this. To be honest I don't know why these boards aren't everywhere. I also wing this board when its very light.
The E3 Kalama's are also great (the narrow ones). Both these boards don't have the paddle in glide of a DW board so you're taking off later but I much prefer them.
Totally agree I have One Egg 6,1 x 25 x 107 L ,surfs a lot better than downwind board .
Paddling on to waves a bit harder but you can compromise with a bigger foil.
Looks like it's time to hear from One @Paul.J then, would love to hear if they have experimented with any different egg dims (a bit longer and a bit skinnier) If someone knows how to tag people in posts let me know 
Select to expand quotedrc13 said..robbo1111 said..
From my experience short and reasonably narrow is best for SUP foil surfing. I'm using 5'10 * 23" * 92L Egg, I'm yet to find anything better/lighter than this. To be honest I don't know why these boards aren't everywhere. I also wing this board when its very light.
The E3 Kalama's are also great (the narrow ones). Both these boards don't have the paddle in glide of a DW board so you're taking off later but I much prefer them.
Yep pretty much where my thinking is at. Totally understand why DW boards have gone the way they have they have become weapons for glide and going straight quickly but SUP Surf Foil can be crazy fun in the right waves (I'll nearly always take my SUP over my Prone just for wave count)
If I can close the performance gap between them even better!
For me it's now narrowing down (pardon the pun) where the best combo for maintaining the great wave catching ability while adding increased manouverability, pump and potentially stability lies.
I feel it's somewhere between 5'10 - 6'10 and 19-23 width but exactly where I don't know.
Out of interest what's your weight and are you happy with the 92L volume?
70kgs, took a bit of getting used to but now I can get out there in up to 10 knots of onshore slop. 92L is perfect for me, I used to SUP a 92L Prowave but can barely stand on it anymore after doing so much foiling
I sup foil my Kalama DW board in tiny waves that might not break or if they do they quickly reform so usually no one else in the water. I find a DW sup really fun in this scenario with the carving of the longer board well matched to waves of this style. The pump is pretty good really and not much different to a Kalama e3 or an egg.
The negatives are they take up lots of real-estate, hate chop and wind because they drift so efficiently and don't maneuver well through the break with others in the water.
if you're in better waves then much shorter and as narrow as your volume restrictions and balance allow.
If you want to look at the comparison of the different sizing and its effect there is some gofoil footage of the best sup carver, Eddie O. He definitely rips better on shorter wider but has been playing with length in some of these videos.
Short wider
80kgs, loving the Kalama E3 6'5 x 23 @116L .
Find it super stable to stand on waiting for waves and paddles up easy ,
feels like a real short board on the wave .
Also used it for DW bay runs and it works ok but will most likely get another dedicated DW board .
Thanks Robbo, I'm also 70kg and back in the day rode ECS Slabs in 95L and 105L but I'm 100% foil these days as well.
Great feedback Anyboard, hah I did a deep dive on those vids earlier as well pretty much the only (and best) SUP surf foil footage is coming from the locals in Hawaii, dafoil and blueplanet got a few views from me as I was comparing what boards they were all on.
Coastfire every time I see the dims of that E3 I get excited then I remember the volume. Something that shape but 95-100L could have my name all over it!
I'm getting closer to pulling the trigger (might just need to select a shaper) still unsure if I'll keep my current DW board or sell it off that will make a bit of a difference in how extreme I go with the dims of the new board. Food for thought.
As far as I know, there's general consensus on specific design elements. How a board will work out depends a lot on the conditions, gear and skills.
Longer and narrower provides better board speed paddling. When flying the weight distribution should be regarded from the mast position, so you can use a longer board to feel the same swing weight compared to a wavesup.
Wider gives more stability standing, but harder to paddle up to speed. Side-side stability also comes from mast/foil so you can get away with a board that is more narrow than a regular wavesup.
Straighter outline (elements) and sharp edges track better in the water (going straight). but not forgiving for side chop and harder to turn whne not on tail.
Choose the volume that allows you to put the power in when paddling, too little is not good for balance and paddle speed, too much is heavier than needed and harder to control.
Lighter is always better, except for fragility and windy conditions.
Longer masts and largers foils provide more stability, but also more drag and more respons to energy in the water. larger foils are harder to turn.
I'm 98kg and have struggled with trying to find the best SurfSup shape for a while
Right now I'm running a 7'4*22ish @125L
It work well- I can get in early but stand up in crappy surface conditions and current.
I make my own boards so I've tried a whole lotta designs- for me this is the sweetspot.
The KT Dragonfly2 Surf looks like the board i would buy(and almost did) with similar dimensions
Select to expand quotemartyman said..
I'm 98kg and have struggled with trying to find the best SurfSup shape for a while
Right now I'm running a 7'4*22ish @125L
It work well- I can get in early but stand up in crappy surface conditions and current.
I make my own boards so I've tried a whole lotta designs- for me this is the sweetspot.
The KT Dragonfly2 Surf looks like the board i would buy(and almost did) with similar dimensions
I'm in same position of trying to work out best size for not very good surf, small with current movement. I build my own and looking at next shape to go for. I'm 82kgs.
what shape bottom did you go for? my DW style North Horizon/KT style are a bit tippy for me, orange one below( 8'2x19")
Now im thinking 7'6" x 26" Jimmy Lewis as pic above. Any thoughts, Cheers.
rgmacca,
I bet if you shape something like the JL I posted above, you could problably go narrower. With that wider tail going all the way back, I bet you could go to 23 -24" wide and still get the stability you think you want.
Select to expand quoteninjatuna said..
rgmacca,
I bet if you shape something like the JL I posted above, you could problably go narrower. With that wider tail going all the way back, I bet you could go to 23 -24" wide and still get the stability you think you want.
Thanks for input. would be great to try a few sizes as at min I'm building them and filling my garage with boards of different shapes and sizes. I do like the JL shape and watched all his build series on fb, really interesting .
I had a really fun glassy session at Kaa on Maui last week where there were probably 30 SUP foilers out. I would say that 20 were on DW boards and 10 were on short/fat boards
I was prone on my 6' wing/prone board and was glad to have the extra paddle power, it's a really long paddle out.
