Using Armstrong HS1850 and CF2400 on an original Starboard Hypernut 8' to foil small surf on the Moray Firth in Scotland. 93kg and pretty good SUP surfer.
No one else around here is SUP Foiling so it's a solo learning curve. Getting pretty good on windy days with a Patrik AIO Wingfoil board but at 115 litres it's too small for me to paddle.
I think a shorter board with more volume in the tail would make paddling into waves easier. On the Hypernut it's very hard work getting board speed off the foil. Read a note in the video thread about negative angles caused by tail rocker. The Hypernut has tracks well towards the back and a lot of rocker in the tail. Surfs well on fins and I learned to wing on it.
Sure someone has been at this point before me and could maybe offer a pointer?
YES you need to get onto a much smaller board and YES excessive tail rocker is really bad thing. Get a smaller purpose made Sup board and your whole foiling world will change.
Brand wise not sure what you have access to. Tell us what can you get and we'll have a look for you and give you my recommendation. Something Like the Sunova 6-6 x 30 x 131 litres would be a good starting point.
sunovasurfboards.com/en/sup/sup-foiling/sup-foilboard
Gong would probably easiest to get for you they have so many boards to pick from and their inflatables are really good ( worth a look )
www.gong-galaxy.com/en/product/gong-foil-board-inflatable-hipe/
Thanks @Piros that's what I was thinking but it's a lot of cash to spend and a little advice could save some expensive mistakes.
About 130 litres sounds good as I would go for a little comfort v performance so sessions can be longer in less than perfect conditions.
I can get most of the big brands easily enough, Starboard, Fanatic, JP etc. But many of the boards seem to be wing boards that they say can SUP foil.
Think Sunova is available through one UK dealer but not much stock. Never seen one IRL
Also Armstrong (If I sell a kidney!) but I had one for winging and it cracked
and was replaced by a Patrik.
Patrik do a 6'6" AIO, 30" wide and the construction is great. Works great as a wing board but not sure about the shape for Foil SUP. Gong should be easy to get but since Brexit it's quite a lot of hassle.
Will probably have to sell the Hypernut to fund it but have a Starboard Widepoint for fun surfing that works well.
Select to expand quotePiros said..
YES excessive tail rocker is really bad thing.
This is really important, and must be taken into account if you do not use the same brand for the foil and board: check the angle of attack of the foil and add a wedge to correct it if needed.
Just a wee bit of negative angle of attack, and the foil will act as an anchor, braking and preventing the takeoff.
Select to expand quotePiros said..
YES excessive tail rocker is really bad thing.
Agreed.
Aa a cheap option you could always try these, stackable shims to place under your mast base plate to change the angle of attack of the foil.
foilmount.com/collections/must-have-hydrofoil-conversion-accessories/products/trim-shim-stackable-hydrofoil-shimming-system
Select to expand quotecolas said..Piros said..
YES excessive tail rocker is really bad thing.
This is really important, and must be taken into account if you do not use the same brand for the foil and board: check the angle of attack of the foil and add a wedge to correct it if needed.
Just a wee bit of negative angle of attack, and the foil will act as an anchor, braking and preventing the takeoff.
I should try and set the fuselage level with the standing deck area to begin with right?
It's Armstrong so the Mast plate is also quite long.
When I mount it to the Hypernut the box area isn't flat so I use the holes to bolt the foil on rather than the slots. This reduces the distance between the bolt s and it fits a little better.
Had a few nice rides on it yesterday but it's hard work paddling on to the wave.
Thanks for the advice
Select to expand quoteFarNorthSurfer said..
I should try and set the fuselage level with the standing deck area to begin with right?
level with the board when paddling on it.
Try to look at how the board sits in the water when standing on it, and reproduce it on trestles, e.g on the 8'9" I learnt on:
Here's my old fanatic board with a 7 mm mast wedge to compensate for too much tail rocker..You can also make the top of the mast plate level with the deck of the board or the fuselage
I've got a 7'4" hypernut. I can relate. I found 3 degrees of foil mount to bring the AOA of my Armstrong foils (1550/1850/2400) to work proper on that board. I also found the mount about 3-4 inches aft of where I felt it should be based on center of bouyance and center of lift.
Recently upgraded to a Kalama, definitely night and day difference.
In short yes it will be holding you back once you hit a certain point. Happy to break out more details if needed. I've posted a few times about it here and the Armstrong FB package.
Select to expand quotewanabxtrm said..
I've got a 7'4" hypernut. I can relate. I found 3 degrees of foil mount to bring the AOA of my Armstrong foils (1550/1850/2400) to work proper on that board. I also found the mount about 3-4 inches aft of where I felt it should be based on center of bouyance and center of lift.
Recently upgraded to a Kalama, definitely night and day difference.
In short yes it will be holding you back once you hit a certain point. Happy to break out more details if needed. I've posted a few times about it here and the Armstrong FB package.
Sounds very familiar, thanks everyone for the help.
I will try and make a shim in the short term and look in to getting a dedicated SUP Foil board.
Both the Kalama and Sunova boards look good. The new Kalama is intriguing. Not sure about UK availability though.
Select to expand quoteFarNorthSurfer said..wanabxtrm said..
I've got a 7'4" hypernut. I can relate. I found 3 degrees of foil mount to bring the AOA of my Armstrong foils (1550/1850/2400) to work proper on that board. I also found the mount about 3-4 inches aft of where I felt it should be based on center of bouyance and center of lift.
Recently upgraded to a Kalama, definitely night and day difference.
In short yes it will be holding you back once you hit a certain point. Happy to break out more details if needed. I've posted a few times about it here and the Armstrong FB package.
Sounds very familiar, thanks everyone for the help.
I will try and make a shim in the short term and look in to getting a dedicated SUP Foil board.
Both the Kalama and Sunova boards look good. The new Kalama is intriguing. Not sure about UK availability though.
The Kalama boards are very good. Lots of volume in a short length.
Select to expand quotewanabxtrm said..
In short yes it will be holding you back once you hit a certain point.
Yes, and also do not forget to work on your SUP paddling technique (video tutorials + practice).
Paddling efficiently a 6'-something SUP is VERY different from paddling a 8', foil or no foil.
Adding an extra fin front like on the Kalama boards can be very useful. You want most of your paddling energy being spent on propulsion, not wasting it in fighting the row effect.
Have checked out the Hypernut 8' on trestles and it looks like about 2 degrees down angle on the foil.
makes sense that it's slightly less than the 7' I guess.
Needs a shim to put about 4mm under the rear mast bolts which will bring it back to level with the deck.
I will sort out how to make a shim as I have all the tools I need.
Naturally I have already concluded that I also need a new board 
Select to expand quotecolas said..wanabxtrm said..
In short yes it will be holding you back once you hit a certain point.
Yes, and also do not forget to work on your SUP paddling technique (video tutorials + practice).
Paddling efficiently a 6'-something SUP is VERY different from paddling a 8', foil or no foil.
Adding an extra fin front like on the Kalama boards can be very useful. You want most of your paddling energy being spent on propulsion, not wasting it in fighting the row effect.
Understood, you can never have too much paddle skill. To be clear I can paddle the 115 litre Patrik which has all the directional stability of a ping pong ball, but it's far too hard to relax on it in the line up especially on a breezy day. My home beach is also blessed with a sideshore rip adding to the fun.
At 57 years young learning new skills is part of the fun but let's not be too energetic
Select to expand quoteFarNorthSurfer said..
Have checked out the Hypernut 8' on trestles and it looks like about 2 degrees down angle on the foil.
makes sense that it's slightly less than the 7' I guess.
Needs a shim to put about 4mm under the rear mast bolts which will bring it back to level with the deck.
I will sort out how to make a shim as I have all the tools I need.
Naturally I have already concluded that I also need a new board
I would take it a step further and compare to how it floats. Or what is 'level' when in use. After spending some time in the pool with a GoPro underwater and a level I noted that the fuse, based on where I stood needed the 3rd plate to get a slightly positive AOA. Two got me to level. Because the board has so much wetted area which you need to unstick the extra AOA aids in takeoff. Unless your really good you likely won't notice the slight pitch once in air.
ps- mine is an old Tuttle mount. Yours may be slightly more improved.
Example along with old and new board.
Select to expand quoteFarNorthSurfer said..colas said..wanabxtrm said..
In short yes it will be holding you back once you hit a certain point.
Yes, and also do not forget to work on your SUP paddling technique (video tutorials + practice).
Paddling efficiently a 6'-something SUP is VERY different from paddling a 8', foil or no foil.
Adding an extra fin front like on the Kalama boards can be very useful. You want most of your paddling energy being spent on propulsion, not wasting it in fighting the row effect.
Understood, you can never have too much paddle skill. To be clear I can paddle the 115 litre Patrik which has all the directional stability of a ping pong ball, but it's far too hard to relax on it in the line up especially on a breezy day. My home beach is also blessed with a sideshore rip adding to the fun.
At 57 years young learning new skills is part of the fun but let's not be too energetic
Add short fins just to keep it straight during the paddle?
Update on the Hypernut after I took the advice and made a shim for the foil mount. The shim is just a polyprop chopping board cut to fit and machined with a router to get a 2.5 degree shim. This is a 4mm difference between the front and back bolts using the inside bolt pattern on my Armstrong mast.
bit worried about the bolt angles but it seemed to hold OK.
Small very gutless waves today at my home beach but enough to make it worth testing the shim.
The Hypernut paddles a little faster with less effort on the flat and digging deep to drop in is noticeably easier than it was. Lift off felt easier with less need to be aggressive kicking it up. On the wave it was easier to control and I had some fun rides.
So it's all positive, using a shim the Hypernut is holding me back less than it was.
But for sure it still feels too big on the wave and there is a lot of board waving around out front.
I feel I can make progress on it now though and will get better before springing for something shorter and lighter in the spring.
About using the fins in the back in addition to the foil which I tried through the summer. I don't have a problem paddling it in a straight line and the extra fins in fact make it harder to turn and add weight and drag so I didn't think they were a benefit. Worth trying though.
