Highlights from Saturday's foil contest- amazing performance and conditions, full video coming soon!
Select to expand quoteblueplanetsurf said..
Highlights from Saturday's foil contest- amazing performance and conditions, full video coming soon!
Pretty solid surf for Kalapaki Bay!
Yes, the surf was pumping. I'm interviewing the organizers Jason and Pono tomorrow, please post any questions you would like to get answered
How good was that , I'd love to foil in a comp ike that . So how many per heat and what was the rule for connections , can more than one rider be on the wave .
Select to expand quotePiros said..
How good was that , I'd love to foil in a comp ike that . So how many per heat and what was the rule for connections , can more than one rider be on the wave .
Thanks Piros, I'll ask them about the contest rules as well as their reasoning behind the somewhat controversial no footstraps rule for the prone surf divisions.
Select to expand quoteblueplanetsurf said..Piros said..
How good was that , I'd love to foil in a comp ike that . So how many per heat and what was the rule for connections , can more than one rider be on the wave .
Thanks Piros, I'll ask them about the contest rules as well as their reasoning behind the somewhat controversial no footstraps rule for the prone surf divisions.
I like the no foot strap rule !
Select to expand quoteblueplanetsurf said..
Thanks Piros, I'll ask them about the contest rules as well as their reasoning behind the somewhat controversial no footstraps rule for the prone surf divisions.
No footstraps for prone is not controversial at all. Look at what Mateo did. People rely on footstraps to do little chop hops when they are 100% not needed. If you wear footstraps you should be doing airs as big as the wing guys on wing world tour. Malo is using foot straps correctly for example.
Select to expand quoteHdip said..blueplanetsurf said..
Thanks Piros, I'll ask them about the contest rules as well as their reasoning behind the somewhat controversial no footstraps rule for the prone surf divisions.
No footstraps for prone is not controversial at all. Look at what Mateo did. People rely on footstraps to do little chop hops when they are 100% not needed. If you wear footstraps you should be doing airs as big as the wing guys on wing world tour. Malo is using foot straps correctly for example.
Let the competitors rig what they want and let the judges decide. If little chop hops aren't stylish then the ride won't score well. If someone is using the straps as designed and doing massive airs, they should score well. Problem solved.
Its not like footstraps make everything easier. There is a compromise and it should be a rider choice.
An outright rule that you can't use footstraps is regressive.
Robert, I like your interviews a lot, and was hoping you would keep them going. Looking forward to listening.
I don't think you can score a rider using straps vs a rider not using straps in the same heat though. Two categories would be the only way to handle that. How do you score Paul Cooper doing strapped spins vs Misterbennets doing big strapless carves. They're different sports.
Select to expand quoteHdip said..
I don't think you can score a rider using straps vs a rider not using straps in the same heat though. Two categories would be the only way to handle that. How do you score Paul Cooper doing strapped spins vs Misterbennets doing big strapless carves. They're different sports.
This is always a tricky discussion and was a big one in the early days of kitesurfing. At the end of the day, there is a choice involved by the rider, making rules to exclude someone is dangerous and can stall growth in competition.
Judging should be first and foremost about the way the wave was ridden - intensity of the ride, the execution of manoeuvres, wave choice and positioning with length of ride. Whether a rider choses to ride strapped or unstrapped should not affect the judging. If a rider feels being strapped gives them an advantage to their personal then they should not be penalised purely on this choice, however if a rider choses to ride unstrapped as they feel the flow and style is better and feel they can hold their own this way, then that is also fine. Otherwise where do you stop, high aspect vs low aspect to be extreme, are all equipment choices within a sport. The judging criteria does need to be clear though with an idea as to scoring scaling and focus on progression vs style vs quality. But I feel foiling gives something special in the fact that we can "longboard" surf on the same gear we can get aggressive and be more "shortboard" like, one kit can do just about all. I also think SUP and prone can be in the same category, choice of the way you wish to ride the wave.
Foiling is destined to go into the air, straps are inevitable for the future progression of the sport IMO, not essential but they will continue to have a presence. Don't hold the potential of the sport back by limiting it, open it up and be an open wave riding class where your not judged on what you ride, but how you ride a wave and what you can perform on that wave or many waves. This is where foiling is so unique, it can do things other sports can not, cover way more ground, faster, higher and longer.
Just my 2 cents,
Ride safe,
JB
You've half convinced me JB. Foil_fan is posting all her footage from the Kalapaki event.
www.instagram.com/reel/Clpz3qdtz4s/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
Anyone else want to just go try strapless airs on every wave now? Even that little kid throws one at the end of that clip.
Select to expand quoteWindgenuity said..Hdip said..
I don't think you can score a rider using straps vs a rider not using straps in the same heat though. Two categories would be the only way to handle that. How do you score Paul Cooper doing strapped spins vs Misterbennets doing big strapless carves. They're different sports.
This is always a tricky discussion and was a big one in the early days of kitesurfing. At the end of the day, there is a choice involved by the rider, making rules to exclude someone is dangerous and can stall growth in competition.
Judging should be first and foremost about the way the wave was ridden - intensity of the ride, the execution of manoeuvres, wave choice and positioning with length of ride. Whether a rider choses to ride strapped or unstrapped should not affect the judging. If a rider feels being strapped gives them an advantage to their personal then they should not be penalised purely on this choice, however if a rider choses to ride unstrapped as they feel the flow and style is better and feel they can hold their own this way, then that is also fine. Otherwise where do you stop, high aspect vs low aspect to be extreme, are all equipment choices within a sport. The judging criteria does need to be clear though with an idea as to scoring scaling and focus on progression vs style vs quality. But I feel foiling gives something special in the fact that we can "longboard" surf on the same gear we can get aggressive and be more "shortboard" like, one kit can do just about all. I also think SUP and prone can be in the same category, choice of the way you wish to ride the wave.
Foiling is destined to go into the air, straps are inevitable for the future progression of the sport IMO, not essential but they will continue to have a presence. Don't hold the potential of the sport back by limiting it, open it up and be an open wave riding class where your not judged on what you ride, but how you ride a wave and what you can perform on that wave or many waves. This is where foiling is so unique, it can do things other sports can not, cover way more ground, faster, higher and longer.
Just my 2 cents,
Ride safe,
JB
For me it should be two differents categorie, as it is just a different way of riding. Think shortboard vs longboard, or bodyboard prone vs bodyboard dk.
I really don't like those airs, it is mostly pop, the only fun thing to watch is pumping back out backflip. When I see a video of Kai riding with straps doing airs (actually to bad in my opinion Kai is focusing more on strap foiling as he rips without with so much style) vs Adam carving, I enjoy way more Adam's surfing.
But I agree, you can't avoid the evolution, getting more into airs, everybody needs to do what they enjoy but it has to be logical.
- surf foil no strap : same as surfing criteria (speed, power, flow, high degree of difficulty, etc), heats (top two go to next round, etc...), criteria focused on riding/making the wave with some foil criteria (double or triple dip only, etc...).
- surf/sup with straps : expreession session style, huge airs, back flip, rotations, wave used as a ramp even if you don't make it, etc...
If you put all together, at the end, one of the aspect is gonna desappeared : if airs straps score more, everybody will go in this direction.
I like how WSL has protected the shortboard evolution, both aspects count, air and turns, but you don't see straps on surfboard because it is not allowed.
Well, I would say that straps are a controversial topic. I just posted the full interview, best to watch the video in high resolution on a big screen, enjoy:
Select to expand quoteblueplanetsurf said..
Well, I would say that straps are a controversial topic. I just posted the full interview, best to watch the video in high resolution on a big screen, enjoy:
Jason Tangalin and Pono Matthews and the Foil Fever Ohana organized the Foilers of Aloha Classic foil contest on Kauai, held on Nov. 26th, 2022. The event was blessed with great conditions, a stoked community of foilers and next level performance in the waves.
Nice vid, thanks !
Couples things imo :
- should be 3 for 1 (one take off and two connections) especially when it is messy
- no more than 4 riders per heat
Select to expand quotefrenchfoiler said..Windgenuity said..Hdip said..
I don't think you can score a rider using straps vs a rider not using straps in the same heat though. Two categories would be the only way to handle that. How do you score Paul Cooper doing strapped spins vs Misterbennets doing big strapless carves. They're different sports.
This is always a tricky discussion and was a big one in the early days of kitesurfing. At the end of the day, there is a choice involved by the rider, making rules to exclude someone is dangerous and can stall growth in competition.
Judging should be first and foremost about the way the wave was ridden - intensity of the ride, the execution of manoeuvres, wave choice and positioning with length of ride. Whether a rider choses to ride strapped or unstrapped should not affect the judging. If a rider feels being strapped gives them an advantage to their personal then they should not be penalised purely on this choice, however if a rider choses to ride unstrapped as they feel the flow and style is better and feel they can hold their own this way, then that is also fine. Otherwise where do you stop, high aspect vs low aspect to be extreme, are all equipment choices within a sport. The judging criteria does need to be clear though with an idea as to scoring scaling and focus on progression vs style vs quality. But I feel foiling gives something special in the fact that we can "longboard" surf on the same gear we can get aggressive and be more "shortboard" like, one kit can do just about all. I also think SUP and prone can be in the same category, choice of the way you wish to ride the wave.
Foiling is destined to go into the air, straps are inevitable for the future progression of the sport IMO, not essential but they will continue to have a presence. Don't hold the potential of the sport back by limiting it, open it up and be an open wave riding class where your not judged on what you ride, but how you ride a wave and what you can perform on that wave or many waves. This is where foiling is so unique, it can do things other sports can not, cover way more ground, faster, higher and longer.
Just my 2 cents,
Ride safe,
JB
For me it should be two differents categorie, as it is just a different way of riding. Think shortboard vs longboard, or bodyboard prone vs bodyboard dk.
I really don't like those airs, it is mostly pop, the only fun thing to watch is pumping back out backflip. When I see a video of Kai riding with straps doing airs (actually to bad in my opinion Kai is focusing more on strap foiling as he rips without with so much style) vs Adam carving, I enjoy way more Adam's surfing.
But I agree, you can't avoid the evolution, getting more into airs, everybody needs to do what they enjoy but it has to be logical.
- surf foil no strap : same as surfing criteria (speed, power, flow, high degree of difficulty, etc), heats (top two go to next round, etc...), criteria focused on riding/making the wave with some foil criteria (double or triple dip only, etc...).
- surf/sup with straps : expreession session style, huge airs, back flip, rotations, wave used as a ramp even if you don't make it, etc...
If you put all together, at the end, one of the aspect is gonna desappeared : if airs straps score more, everybody will go in this direction.
I like how WSL has protected the shortboard evolution, both aspects count, air and turns, but you don't see straps on surfboard because it is not allowed.
I hear where you are going and agree to a degree, but the problem with dividing is you halve the resources and double the work to put on events. The strapped vs unstrapped surf and footstrap vs boots unhooked things nearly killed Kiting (it is still recovering) from where it was when it had a huge following. Foiling has an incredible potential, and I don't think we are any where near where it can get to. I agree with majority of the allyoop style airs you see and the forced styles of some strapped riders, but this can be addressed in judging criteria and plus this will evolve also. I agree on style, placement and flow as major things to be awarded, but also recognise that a strapped rider can also ride with these qualities just as an unstrapped rider can ride a little more forced and jerky at times.
I anticipate the speeds and heights at which we will be able to ride in the future will be breathtaking, like watching snowboarders on the halfpipe and big booter ramps. And I think as an emerging "futuristic" sport we should be looking further than where existing sports are, go bigger, faster, higher. Spectators love watching BIG. Spectators = money = events = pro riders. There's a reason the most watched events involve high speed and big air.
Anyway, hopefully there'll be a perfect blend criteria built that showcases all of it. Maybe it is Foil Surfing and Surf Foil Freestyle being different events, who knows, I just hope it doesn't go down the way of "that was crap because they were strapped" or "you gotta give them credit because they made it soo incredibly hard to do that move at half the intensity of the other rider because they were unstrapped". It really divides a sport. Who knows, a decade ago we never thought we'd see the airs we see in surfing now, so maybe it is worth the slower coarse??
Interesting conversation.
Ride safe,
JB
I can relate to both sides of the argument but for me, coming from windsurfing, it feels natural to use straps for wing foiling and Sup foiling. It's harder to get your feet into the straps when popping up on a wave but there is no question that even without airs, straps give you more control in turns and when hitting white water. So in my opinion not allowing straps is slowing down progression. I like the snowboard halfpipe analogy, it would not be the same if riders were not attached to their boards but yes, it's would be a completely different sport.
The wingfoiling guys are doing the half pipe sized airs and flips already. Prone foiling is something different.
Select to expand quoteHdip said..
The wingfoiling guys are doing the half pipe sized airs and flips already. Prone foiling is something different.
Yes, but are the best prone foilers of the world pushing it past what the best surfers in the world can already do? Or are we doing safer, less critical turns on smaller waves while safety surfing until the wave peters out and on smaller waves/sections. Don't get me wrong, I am 100% blown away with where prone is and heading, and SUP for that matter, and it is way beyond anything I will likely ever achieve, but I also just see a future in foiling that is soo incredibly out there! It could make professional surfing look like lilo riding in white water. I think there's a difference in looking at what's happening now, as opposed to where the sport could be in the next 5 years. Foiling has the ability to shread a wave and go to the air, ride incredibly fast and far. Really it is a possibility that moves will go more varial like wakeboarding, but on waves, connecting and carving harder than ever thought possible.
This is a great discussion again. I love where foiling is at, and 5-6 years ago when I started I never thought it would go this nuts. But look at sailing, the America's Cup, Sail GP, advancements are not holding back to stay aligned with the established forms of sailing, they are adapting and changing to allow foiling to showcase what it can do. Courses and rules changed to suit the craft. Holding on to an ideal from a totally different sport as a template might not be in the sports best interest.
Love it - Frothing! I want to go foiling now 
Interesting point of view for sure.
For exemple shortboard = no straps, skateboard = no straps and you can see huge airs, ramps, etc...
Snowboard = straps
Kite, Wing, surf foil we see both.
As I said, for me it is two differents approach, we should do both.
