Hi
Does anyone have any knowledge and/or experience with this old diesel dinosaur or the Hydralign Prop?
Powering a 1980 Tasman 26.
I and plenty of others have found the old Yanmar supper reliable.
They have the reputation of being bullet proof
I'm onto my third hydralign. Each previous one has failed. The last one took out the shaft as well. They are noisy at slow speeds and prone to failure. I won't be getting another - there are newer and more reliable options.
the old yannmars are very reliable and verrrrryyy heavy hydralign props are robust though a little bigger profile most failures with feathering props occur though changing from forward to reverse at to higher revs
Lets hear from one of the owners of either a Yanmar YSB8 or 12 that thinks they are reliable. The horizontal piston layout makes them prone to serious oil blowby. I would hate to be trying to sell a yacht with one.
I had blowby in the 2003 volvo in my boat.
Why would it stop you from purchasing a boat?
Anyone buying any boat with a motor of that vintage you would be dreaming to not factor in the very real possibility of having to replace soon. Any time you get from an engine of that age needs to be treated as a bonus .
Select to expand quotetwodogs1969 said..
I had blowby in the 2003 volvo in my boat.
Why would it stop you from purchasing a boat?
Anyone buying any boat with a motor of that vintage you would be dreaming to not factor in the very real possibility of having to replace soon. Any time you get from an engine of that age needs to be treated as a bonus .
Blow by with a vertical piston layout is not quite the same as with a horizontal piston engine. Yanmar switched to conventional layout after this engine.
Thanks for your replies.
For better or worse, I've purchased the boat.
Had two mechanics out to look at the engine who were both pleasantly surprised. It starts very easily, sounds good...problem is it's not pushing the boat along very fast and when I open the throttle, leaves a trail of black smoke.
Each mechanic presented two very different diagnoses. One quoted 3.5k to do the work ??.
I've decided to have a go myself at:
Remove and have injector serviced;
Replace exhaust elbow;
Replace exhaust waterlock.
This will be the start.
The Hydralign Prop I'm not too happy with. There is a lot of vibration at low revs and one of the mechanics believed the shaft may be bent.
The engine is mounted forward underneath the v-berth on the Tasman 26, so I kind of feel the extraordinary length of the shaft compromises it further.
The previous owner installed the Hydralign and shaft in the past 18 mths. I'm hoping (wishing) he may still have the old prop and shaft.
Once again, thanks for your help.
On my tasman as soon as I had any growth on the prop and I mean even one barnacle I would not get full revs and it would leave a trail of un burnt black diesel. Clean prop issue went.
Maybe as easy as that.
Tasman is a great strong boat mine use to match the endeavour 26 when racing.
Mine had the engine under the cockpit.
Select to expand quotetheselkie said..
Thanks for your replies.
For better or worse, I've purchased the boat.
Had two mechanics out to look at the engine who were both pleasantly surprised. It starts very easily, sounds good...problem is it's not pushing the boat along very fast and when I open the throttle, leaves a trail of black smoke.
Each mechanic presented two very different diagnoses. One quoted 3.5k to do the work ??.
I've decided to have a go myself at:
Remove and have injector serviced;
Replace exhaust elbow;
Replace exhaust waterlock.
This will be the start.
The Hydralign Prop I'm not too happy with. There is a lot of vibration at low revs and one of the mechanics believed the shaft may be bent.
The engine is mounted forward underneath the v-berth on the Tasman 26, so I kind of feel the extraordinary length of the shaft compromises it further.
The previous owner installed the Hydralign and shaft in the past 18 mths. I'm hoping (wishing) he may still have the old prop and shaft.
Once again, thanks for your help.
I would not do any of those jobs till you have to. If the motor starts easy it has good compression. I would change fuel filters and change the oil. The injectors must be fine if the engine sounds good. I agree with twodogs, check the prop first. Sounds like it has some shell. My folding prop is useless with a couple of shells and the boat speed will drop drastically. The vibration could be simply the shaft anode has come loose or the shell has built up one side more than the other. Take a swim and check first.
Select to expand quotetheselkie said..
Thanks for your replies.
For better or worse, I've purchased the boat.
Had two mechanics out to look at the engine who were both pleasantly surprised. It starts very easily, sounds good...problem is it's not pushing the boat along very fast and when I open the throttle, leaves a trail of black smoke.
Each mechanic presented two very different diagnoses. One quoted 3.5k to do the work ??.
I've decided to have a go myself at:
Remove and have injector serviced;
Replace exhaust elbow;
Replace exhaust waterlock.
This will be the start.
The Hydralign Prop I'm not too happy with. There is a lot of vibration at low revs and one of the mechanics believed the shaft may be bent.
The engine is mounted forward underneath the v-berth on the Tasman 26, so I kind of feel the extraordinary length of the shaft compromises it further.
The previous owner installed the Hydralign and shaft in the past 18 mths. I'm hoping (wishing) he may still have the old prop and shaft.
Once again, thanks for your help.
I would strongly advise against sinking 3500 into a 30 year old motor. Spend 6 and get a new one.
At the end of the day 3500 on a 30 year old motor will not ad any value where a new one will plus peace of mind when you have your daughters onboard.
Start shopping around for a really good newer second hand unit now so when time comes replace it.
Thanks again.
Just learnt the previous owner had her in the travelift, pressure-washed and pitch adjusted on prop a week prior to me buying her.
Could he have adjusted the pitch incorrectly to cause black smoke and little movement???
Agree I'm better off looking out for a replacement engine. Any suggestions? Same mechanic who quoted 3.5k to work on the old one quoted 11.5 to repower with 1gm10...yikes....I only paid 7 for the entire boat!!
Select to expand quotetheselkie said..
Thanks again.
Just learnt the previous owner had her in the travelift, pressure-washed and pitch adjusted on prop a week prior to me buying her.
Could he have adjusted the pitch incorrectly to cause black smoke and little movement???
Agree I'm better off looking out for a replacement engine. Any suggestions? Same mechanic who quoted 3.5k to work on the old one quoted 11.5 to repower with 1gm10...yikes....I only paid 7 for the entire boat!!
Firstly welcome back to the world of boat ownership.
If the PO changed the prop pitch this could be part of the problem. Too coarse a pitch will prevent the motor from reaching its design RPM and cause the high loads which can generate the black smoke. Easy to check if you have a rev counter and can google the torque/speed curve of the motor.
Black smoke may be just an issue with slightly blocked/carboned injectors, it may be as simple as putting a bottle of ChemTech diesel additive through the tank before you spend any serious money. Put it through at a very strong rate, then replace filters. This cured a similar problem with a 2.8L diesel 4WD I had.
Greg.
Select to expand quotetheselkie said..
Thanks again.
Just learnt the previous owner had her in the travelift, pressure-washed and pitch adjusted on prop a week prior to me buying her.
Could he have adjusted the pitch incorrectly to cause black smoke and little movement???
Agree I'm better off looking out for a replacement engine. Any suggestions? Same mechanic who quoted 3.5k to work on the old one quoted 11.5 to repower with 1gm10...yikes....I only paid 7 for the entire boat!!
As Chris showed you can get one for $6500.
I would look for one second hand with low hours. Time is on your side.
Will the new Yanmar fit your old engine mounts? If it does will save money if it doesn't why not look at one of the cheaper kabota based motor's.
Also a tip with the tasman I found I had to reduce sail a lot earlier than the Endeavours. With the huge beam I found if it healed to much it use to just dig in.
Hi guys
I can't express how grateful I am for the knowledge and experience you have all shared with me. Thank you most sincerely.
Update: I ran the motor today for twenty minutes. For the first 10-12, it deposited a good layer of black soot on the surface of the water. After that the water pumped left no soot.
Spoken to the previous owner again tonight who recommends I clean out the waterlock closest to the exhaust outlet. Both mechanics recommended I replace the other waterlock closer to the motor itself. Previous owner also recommends cleaning only (not replacing) exhaust exhaust elbow. On another note, PO assures me the prop shaft is not bent.
Okay, I'm purchasing Ramona's recommended snake-oil tomorrow as a first line of resistance then move on to pulling things apart.
I'm still going to investigate repowering. If not Yanmar, does anyone have any recommendations for new or used?
Once again, I am so grateful for the brains trust here on this forum.
Trace
As I said previously depends on engine bed if you can use the old one it could save a thousand.
Try one of the kabota based they are a bit cheaper.
Select to expand quotetheselkie said..
On another note, PO assures me the prop shaft is not bent.
Because it is a long prop shaft, it may be flexing under thrust in forward gear,, whilst steaming forward gear, the whole boat is being pushed along by the prop shaft and if the shaft is not correctly supported it will flex and whip.
If you select reverse, the boat is now being pulled by the prop shaft so the shaft should run true and smooth, if it doesn't, the shaft is most likely bent.... Smooth in reverse,, rough in forward is usually a whipping prop shaft.
This problem is common when a stuffing box has been removed and a PSS has been fitted without fitting a bushing to the stern tube. Also a long flexible piece of hose between the stern tube and the stuffing gland/bushing allows excessive flexibility and the shaft will whip in forward gear.
Select to expand quotetheselkie said..
Hi guys
I can't express how grateful I am for the knowledge and experience you have all shared with me. Thank you most sincerely.
Update: I ran the motor today for twenty minutes. For the first 10-12, it deposited a good layer of black soot on the surface of the water. After that the water pumped left no soot.
Spoken to the previous owner again tonight who recommends I clean out the waterlock closest to the exhaust outlet. Both mechanics recommended I replace the other waterlock closer to the motor itself. Previous owner also recommends cleaning only (not replacing) exhaust exhaust elbow. On another note, PO assures me the prop shaft is not bent.
Okay, I'm purchasing Ramona's recommended snake-oil tomorrow as a first line of resistance then move on to pulling things apart.
I'm still going to investigate repowering. If not Yanmar, does anyone have any recommendations for new or used?
Once again, I am so grateful for the brains trust here on this forum.
Trace
lot of the older yanmars tended to leave a sooty layer on the surface after startups especially if they had been run a lot and not loaded up.
My father had a lot of these engines in his fishing boats , they were the bees knees of small diesels at the time , had one
over 30 year old when he retired , from memory only issue was carbon build up , was a simple job of removing head and scrapping off the carbon around the valves to get the compression back.
Select to expand quotetheselkie said..
Hi guys
I can't express how grateful I am for the knowledge and experience you have all shared with me. Thank you most sincerely.
Update: I ran the motor today for twenty minutes. For the first 10-12, it deposited a good layer of black soot on the surface of the water. After that the water pumped left no soot.
Spoken to the previous owner again tonight who recommends I clean out the waterlock closest to the exhaust outlet. Both mechanics recommended I replace the other waterlock closer to the motor itself. Previous owner also recommends cleaning only (not replacing) exhaust exhaust elbow. On another note, PO assures me the prop shaft is not bent.
Okay, I'm purchasing Ramona's recommended snake-oil tomorrow as a first line of resistance then move on to pulling things apart.
I'm still going to investigate repowering. If not Yanmar, does anyone have any recommendations for new or used?
Once again, I am so grateful for the brains trust here on this forum.
Trace
The running of the engine for twenty minutes bit in your message reminded me of the thermostat. Might be worth seeing if yours is actually fitted and working. The engine may be staying too cool. They will be difficult to find and expensive. My engine does not have one anymore and I can live with it but it might explain the clear exhaust after 10 minutes of running in your case.
I'm not knowledgeable enough to know whether what I had was an YSB8. All I know is that I had an 8hp Yanmar in the old Supersonic 27 I had.
It was always the case that if you opened the throttle quickly it blew black smoke and kept blowing it. If you eased it up gradually it didn't. So the solution was always to ease back down again and ease it back up.
A mate bought a similar boat and had the same issue.
This was all 30 years ago when the engines were that much newer (but by no means new).
Plus with all my earlier yachts I quickly discovered that any fouling at all made the thing go like a wet week at any revs.
+1 for comments on prop fouling. It's surprising how little it takes to significantly affect performance.
Lots of food for thought. Thanks again everyone.
I'll go for a sail on the weekend to remember why I bought another bloody boat then start trying a few of your excellent suggestions.
Select to expand quotetheselkie said..
Lots of food for thought. Thanks again everyone.
I'll go for a sail on the weekend to remember why I bought another bloody boat then start trying a few of your excellent suggestions.
Lots of the old Yanmars were sensitive to timing which is set with a shim under the injector pump. Over advanced,(shim too thick) a bit hard to start but no smoke, over retarded, (shim too thin) easy to start but some black smoke. I would keep the old Yanmar until it dies, they last forever and run on the smell of an oily rag. I had one in a boat that sat on the bottom of the Brisbane river - rusty but still going with only a cursory clean up.
And selkie, you know it's impossible to have too many boats.
Select to expand quotetheselkie said..
Thanks for your replies.
For better or worse, I've purchased the boat.
Had two mechanics out to look at the engine who were both pleasantly surprised. It starts very easily, sounds good...problem is it's not pushing the boat along very fast and when I open the throttle, leaves a trail of black smoke.
Each mechanic presented two very different diagnoses. One quoted 3.5k to do the work ??.
I've decided to have a go myself at:
Remove and have injector serviced;
Replace exhaust elbow;
Replace exhaust waterlock.
This will be the start.
The Hydralign Prop I'm not too happy with. There is a lot of vibration at low revs and one of the mechanics believed the shaft may be bent.
The engine is mounted forward underneath the v-berth on the Tasman 26, so I kind of feel the extraordinary length of the shaft compromises it further.
The previous owner installed the Hydralign and shaft in the past 18 mths. I'm hoping (wishing) he may still have the old prop and shaft.
Once again, thanks for your help.
20 years ago you could buy a non genuine exhaust elbow for a 1/5 of the price of a yanmar one. I'm not sure if they are still out there but worth googling...
Those old single pot horizontal Yanmars CAN be hand started, they will last forever, will putt putt along all day and serve you well.
Treat it with love and it will love you back.
My two pot Yanmar 2QM 15 vertical 660 cc is another classic Yanmar. It has a hand start mechanism but I defy any primate short of a silver back gorilla to start it by hand.
Old thread... hope it all worked out. I had a small Yanmar in my first boat had a 2GM all of 13hp. When the batteries were flat and the alternator pumping out a few amps, it exhibited the same symptoms as yours. Once the batteries were topped up (20 min) she went like a top and would not blow any more smoke. Hope this helps someone.
James
