I looked at a Clansman which has been out of the water five years. Some osmosis blisters had been ground out to about 75mm dia. Not sure what size the blisters were to start with.
I'm trying to work out costs of bringing this boat back to my place for an out of the water refurb over a couple of months or more while waiting for a mooring.
Part of the costing will be osmosis repair, filling, priming, and painting, (after stripping it back.) Anti fouling would be done just before it went back in the water.
The question is: Could anyone give me a rough guesstimate of material costs for this size hull?
This is one of the spots
I'm still working on freight/crane hire costs etc. Maybe have to get the boat for nothing to make it worthwhile!
The rest of the boat is OK. Good rig and engine.
Cheers,
Charles
Charles,
I would leave the boat where it is. Repair it there and drop it in the water and sail away.
How many patches required?
I would buy a one litre pack of FGI 180 and some micro balloons and micro fibres. Small electronic scales. The FGI epoxy will be around the $100 mark, the fillers I'm not sure about, I have had the same bag for years. Scales will be about $10. Measure by weight and be precise.
Clean out the ground out areas with metho, maybe rough up first with a bit of sandpaper. Mix up small amounts of epoxy, 50 grams or so [5:1] into small plastic containers, yogurt type. Add mixture of micro fibres and micro balloons and keep adding and mixing till you have a mixture like toothpaste. There is no rush the epoxy will be slow to go off. Smear into ground out areas. Don't try to fill in one go. Keep mixing and applying till all the areas are a little proud. Apply over areas after they have gone off a bit, still green, best to get it done in the same day if possible.
Next day a quick pass over patches with a sanding disc in a mini grinder [36 grit], smooth to finish with sanding block and paper. Prime with paint, antifoul and sail away.
Next year when you slip and inspect, repair any further areas the same way.
Oh Farquhart (I'm not calling you one)
that photo gives me goosebumps and stirs up my PTSD lol. Looks exactly like what faced me last year. I bet it stinks too...oozing pestilence.
I feel your pain, Charles.
I had a lot of blisters on a skinny 32ft hull, some of which were as deep and as large as the ones you indicate. It's more time and effort than materials I found. It blew my hardstand estimate out by about 4 days to do the repairs somewhat properly. If you listen to some people, the blisters should be left to completely drain for a number of months. Sometimes, on the hard, at $xxx/day, this is just not feasible. It certainly wasn't an option for me living aboard.
Also, the longer the boat is out and the more it dries out, more blisters will appear.
I guess, all up, cloth, epoxy, Epifill, Interprotect came to about $500 - that was with discounts from my mentor chandler. Wasn't a bodgy job. Was happy with the integrity at the end of the project. And don't feel in the least that I am on-selling a lemon.
Next boat...see another thread...will be a complete bottom peel and re-epoxy. With no surprises upon haulout at a $xxx/day facility, I'll be planning on an extended out of water stay and lots of hard work.
Why, oh why, don't we do scrapbooking or gardening????????????????????????????????????????
Thanks for the advice guys.
The boat has been out of the water for five years, so hull is pretty dry. The costing I was looking for was a complete hull repair and re paint - materials cost.
I know I could look at catalogues and try to figure it out, which I will, but I thought someone who has done it before would have a better idea.
I have a small property and would do all the work myself at home, plus other refurbs as required. No hardstand fees, but transport and cranes required.
My mooring application could take six months or more.
"Why, oh why, don't we do scrapbooking or gardening????????????????????????"
Don't even know how to "scrapbook", not sure I want to, but I do grow most of my own vegies! Would the dust from sanding the hull be good for them?
When I get the transport costs I'll keep you informed from there.
Cheers
And people think rust is bad news! If it's only a few blisters then fill as advice given. But I would tap around the hull and look for delimitation, and also I found sand blasting great for anti foul removal and some interprotect paint of some type. Good luck and have fun.
I would use acetone to wipe out the glass scallops acetone will help remove any exiting moisture before you apply epoxy or glass coatings.
I'm no expert, having never done an osmosis repair myself. However I have heard that one option is to fill the scallop with the same material as the hull was originally built with, so in most cases vinyl ester resins with glass. Then some epoxy over that.
Yes that's correct as the chopmat powder binding does not break up with epoxy......so vinylster or polyester is best options.
I have done about 20 boats in the past years.......
scallop the blister till the bleeding finishes..... Wipe out with acetone several times ....check moisture with moisture meter if you an get your hands on one!
.....depending on the size of the blister cut small circle chopmat then work up in sizes until the scallop is filled......best to do 4 layers and let tack off as if you try and do 7 layers at once it may get a bit hot! Set your catalyst at 2.5 % .......
Note....you only need to do the glass repair method if you have changed the sound of your hull thickness.....use small hammer to sound.
Fair with micro balloons (seems hard to find these days!) and then coat with epoxy at least 5 times ,followed by epoxy undercoat then antifouling.
Take pictures or notes where blisters are so you can see if you have solved the problem next time you slip!
Select to expand quotekeensailor said..
However I have heard that one option is to fill the scallop with the same material as the hull was originally built with, so in most cases vinyl ester resins with glass. Then some epoxy over that.
Yup, that is one option, another option is stuff any goop in there that will stick whether that be epoxy, vinylester or polyester makes no never mind. All polymers, regardless of whether they are one of the three mentioned, all are susceptible to osmosis, yes, even epoxy. Fresh water is worse than salt ....blah blah. How many boats have ever sunk from having osmosis? The point? ... Don't panic or fret over it, just fix it and get on with life.
Select to expand quoteShotchas said..
Thanks for the advice guys.
The boat has been out of the water for five years, so hull is pretty dry.
When I get the transport costs I'll keep you informed from there.
Cheers
Sounds mighty like Maggie IV up at Bouldercombe. Brand new engine, rig and sails??
For boat transport give this guy a ring. Give him length, beam, weight and hull form over the phone plus from where and to where and he will give you a price right there and then. Bouldercombe to Murwillumbah, I am guessing $3,000. If you talk reddys with no paperwork, you might get a better price.
Terry Burns 0417 752 384.
Yes Cisco that's the one, and thanks for the info.
I already got a quote for $1800 from Aaron at Qld boat transport. That's just one part of the puzzle. My major one now is my narrow sloping driveway with a bend in it. The semi is 17m long and would have to turn around after unloading, with a crane and boat in the way. I have some calculations to do before I could even make an offer on the boat.
The boat could be ok if it was cheap enough. The engine wouldn't start after sitting for three years, probably old fuel but I'm waiting to hear a report back.
Cisco, how much do you know about the boat? I spent the afternoon with the owner and he gave me a good rundown, but if you have any more info on it I would be happy to hear it.
Cheers
I don't know much about it except from what the seller told me about it. You know more about it than me because you have seen it.
It has osmosis and transport problems and the guy really wants to get rid of it. The osmosis is not really a big problem. Those Clansmens were heavily built. My mate who is one of the most experienced fibreglassers around says he could fix a 30 footer with lots of osmosis in about a week.
You are in a very strong negotiating position.
The seller is a genuine guy but neither you nor I have no obligation to pay for his misfortune. I would be going hard and tough at $16,000. He will object strongly but after you point out to him that you can buy a ready to go 30 footer for $24,000 and you will have to spend $8,000 to get that one ready to go he might see the light.
Probably best if you point out what it needs spent to condition him before you drop your offer.
Forget about transporting it to Murwillumbah, working on it for the next two years and then paying again to transport it to get it in the water.
Get it in the water as soon as possible so you can enjoy it. The mooring will come sooner or later.
Get her over to Rosslyn Bay marina hard stand, fix what NEEDS fixing, then drop her in the drink.
I agree with Cisco [and myself], get it back into the water. Just how many ground out patches are there? Pointless carting it to your property. Osmosis repair businesses are flat out scaring people into parting with thousands of dollars for peeling/grinding or what ever. Treat fibreglass boats the same as timber, both hold water. Drying out boats for 5 years is a joke. Once you have ground out the blister and drained off the fluid [vinegar smelling stuff], mopped it with acetone or metho its ready to be filled.
Clansman's were built before people knew much about fibreglass, they are overbuilt. Ground out areas filled with epoxy filler will be far stronger than fibreglass anyway.
To the best of my knowledge no vessel has ever sunk from osmosis but I bet some one with a moisture meter can find moisture in any fibreglass hull!
Use osmosis as a bargaining tool by all means but don't be afraid of it. My yacht may have had had some repairs done to it in the past, I don't know and don't care.
Thank you both for the feed back.
The reason I was considering bringing it home, was because it has been sitting for so long, I would like to give it a good going over before re launching, which is a lot easier at home than trying to do it from 800Kms. That would include sanding back of the hull and re painting, plus getting the rest of it up to scratch, ie wiring, internal re vamp, check and repairing leaks
It would also be an ideal time for me to get to know all the "nuts and bolts" of it.
The anticipated time for doing this would be about three months at most.
Of course the cost of doing this would be deducted from the perceived value of the boat in the water, and an offer made accordingly, which may or may not be accepted.
Great forum, and always good to hear different viewpoints.
Select to expand quoteShotchas said..
The anticipated time for doing this would be about three months at most.
Everyone anticipates that but rarely does it happen in that time. Do your time estimation, quadruple it and you might be close to the mark.
YouSelect to expand quoteShotchas said..
Thank you both for the feed back.
The reason I was considering bringing it home, was because it has been sitting for so long, I would like to give it a good going over before re launching, which is a lot easier at home than trying to do it from 800Kms. That would include sanding back of the hull and re painting, plus getting the rest of it up to scratch, ie wiring, internal re vamp, check and repairing leaks
It would also be an ideal time for me to get to know all the "nuts and bolts" of it.
The anticipated time for doing this would be about three months at most.
Of course the cost of doing this would be deducted from the perceived value of the boat in the water, and an offer made accordingly, which may or may not be accepted.
Great forum, and always good to hear different viewpoints.
It might be a better option to spend the money on blasting the hull and a quick few coats of epoxy and antifouling and get the hull in the water rather than spending the money trucking and craning the boat home.
Unless the boat is in need for a full re-building these tinkering jobs are going to be far more enjoyable with water slapping on the side of your hull, with the fact that you could even go for a rewarding sail on the weekends!
Shotchas ... I would Go the albatross she looks the goods
Does the other boat have as much equipment , new rigging as her ?
Very easy to spend 20 - 30 k on setting up a boat !
