I am going to order a new main sail,
lots of places to take your money and end up with the bottom of the line sail for top dollar.
I want a offshore spec triple stitched bulletproof sail .
I have always had a crosscut sail but like the idea of a Tri-radial and it's advantages of longer life and shape , any reviews on the
Tri-radial cut Challenge Newport PR 7.1 .
also from the guys who have done serious ocean crossings
what would you spec on your offshore main to make it a really tough sail?
stuff that the average sail maker wouldn't consider .
Port Townsend Sails (USA) will make you a work of art that is good for up to two circumnavigations.
There's a bit of a queue...and the price...if you have to ask..............
However if you want to see how it is done properly, google some of their vids. Previously known as Carole Haase Sails.
Gday Magnesium
I am not sure what boat you have - I think it is a Duncanson 37. That makes a difference. My cat needs good cloth in radial to keep nice shape. Full battens and large roach, yours can do with lower spec cloth. I don't know about Challenge cloth, in fact unless there is a sailmaker here, I doubt anyone would be able to make a good argument either way. I would recommend you find a nice sailmaker near you who has done a few Hobarts themselves and knows what a sail needs. I was a a boat show about 4 years ago and started talking to a young but experienced sailmaker who knew me from racing dinghies. I was talking about going dacron on my new genoa - he told me I was being stupid asw he knew of my abilities from racing. He talked to the guys at Contender and set me up with some nice cruise laminate. He made me an absolutely beautiful sail. Even after working as a sailmaker as a kid, I didn't know enough to make a good choice. I was in the hands of someone I respected to make a proper choice. I did read somewhere that most of the guff you pay for on a cruising sail like the ones from boutique lofts in Port Townsend, is unnecessary. I got good wear patches and extra stitching and leather parts on sails from Adam South and also from Macdiarmids (Doyle). My advice is to talk to a sailmaker who races and cruises offshore and chat about what you think you want. They will tell you where you are being dumb if you listen. The price for my Doyle headsail was a little above the Tasker price - but even the Tasker sails come with leather and good stitching.
Select to expand quoteMAGNESIUM said..
I am going to order a new main sail,
lots of places to take your money and end up with the bottom of the line sail for top dollar.
I want a offshore spec triple stitched bulletproof sail .
I have always had a crosscut sail but like the idea of a Tri-radial and it's advantages of longer life and shape , any reviews on the
Tri-radial cut Challenge Newport PR 7.1 .
also from the guys who have done serious ocean crossings
what would you spec on your offshore main to make it a really tough sail?
stuff that the average sail maker wouldn't consider .
Having brought more big mainsails than most people I will weigh into this.
So after over the years buying, Bainbridge Dacron, Spectra, Carbon and Vectron it is pretty simple choice.
First buy the best cloth you can afford.
Second, whether tri radial or cross cut depends on the layout.
a big problem with tri radial is that the vertical seams fail first especially if reefed as the load is pulling across the seam not along it and thread strength diminishes over time
And vertical seams are the hardest to repair so be aware of that.
But if you want bullet proof there is only one choice.
HOOD VECTRON. (I have ordered 4 across 3 boats for offshore sailing)
In 25 years i have never torn, damaged in any way a Vectron panel. a mainsail brought for 2002 Hobart is still used by the boat as the primary delivery and cruising main.
Sure the Vectron at first does not hold its shape the best as full on race sail but after that it is fine. Some rigs as Kankana point out you may not get a choice because of rig geometry
Also importantly, flogging the sail does not deteriorate the cloth anywhere near as much as laminates.
Flogging is death to a sail.
having said that Bainbridge Dacron holds up well for long time where cheap Dacron is vrap from day 1
As to configuration, either 3 reefs of 1 and 3 (no 2nd reef) as if you are past 1 you are normally headed to 3 and besides most boats only have 2 reef lines and mousing is a pain if cruising. Or see the solution below.
Try not to have metal reef eyes on bigger sails but use webbing and the snatch block or low friction ring. Less damage to the sail when flogging.
Specify larger corner patches and reef point to spread the load. (Sailmaker will hate that as the computer cuts them)
If you are using battern cars, think about specifying extra wide luff tape and double sew it as when reefed in heavy air you will get huge luff flutter between the cars.
As for batten pockets and ends, price is an indication of quality as are battens.
Try to use a local sailmaker as unless you have a very accurate rig diagram, the chaff patches for the batten pockets and spreader patches will never be in the right place and need to be dome after fitting the sail.
Also measure the tack cut back carefully, as the failure to do so loads up the first few batten cars and will eventually lead to failure.
My 20 cents to start with.
first fit of vectran main on Defiance
yeah I stuffed up the tack cut back
Went with effectively a 2nd and 3 rd reef with no first because I an getting old and lazy.
Sydney 38 IRC offshore main (no second reef)
Defiance with vectran No1 med/heavy and main.
Wow great input guys, I like the idea of the webbing for reefing that's the kind of stuff I am looking for, over size luff tape and I once saw one triple stitched.
I will look into that HOOD VECTRON.
would be nice to find a sail maker who lights up and knows exactly what you are wanting instead of the one who orders the panels and just wants to sew them together and chucked his name on it.
Lydia do you have a link to the guy you use ?
I am in Port Stephens and the closest sail maker we have is Lake Macquarie.
Talking about Tasker what are their offshore sails like? Are they prepared to listen and build a custom sail?
yep going with reef 1-3 great idea.
I was planning to build a sail over time, but last night I pulled the main down and it just ripped right across, and I thought it was in good Nick.
so now it's a job to done ASAP
I would suggest waiting till our resident sail maker responds. Or just check out the Hyde sails that the round the world racers use.
www.hydesails.com/distributors/victoria/
Thanks Ramona, onto it!
Ok an offshore main that will stands years of use will need all the little extra's, batten chafe webbings, reinforcing behind the liff slides etc . Lots of little things that add a bit initially but are so important "down the track".
The Newport 7.1 is a Radial cut cloth from Challenge, seem a touch light looking at the role intention. Challenge are not available in Australia but are popular with on-line lofts as they are pretty economical and a budget but ok cloth. About 50- 65% of the cost of Dimenison or Contender for example! A nice Bronze+ rating.Radial vs Crosscut, the radial sails are sexy! And do have a little better shape retention when used. But when reefed you are pulling across the corner orientated seams! Which is OK with suitable tabling and strapping and thats fine is you reef intermittently. But if you reef regularly then the cross cut is better as the panel orientation stays the same.
Crosscut is a bit cheaper- less construction time and a lower yield on the cutting of the cloth.Lydia's points re reefs are very valid and the Vectron is a nice cloth (not exclusive to Hoods) I also love the Dimension Hydranet even more, it is bullet proof!!!
Edit- Working on assumption it is a Dunc 37 and slab reefing!
I use Hood Brisbane (Ian Davis) but I have sailed with the guy a lot over the years but the Sydney people are great to deal with as well.
www.hoodaustralia.com.au/contact-us
Select to expand quoteGalatea said..
Thanks Ramona, onto it!
Ok an offshore main that will stands years of use will need all the little extra's, batten chafe webbings, reinforcing behind the liff slides etc . Lots of little things that add a bit initially but are so important "down the track".
The Newport 7.1 is a Radial cut cloth from Challenge, seem a touch light looking at the role intention. Challenge are not available in Australia but are popular with on-line lofts as they are pretty economical and a budget but ok cloth. About 50- 65% of the cost of Dimenison or Contender for example! A nice Bronze+ rating.Radial vs Crosscut, the radial sails are sexy! And do have a little better shape retention when used. But when reefed you are pulling across the corner orientated seams! Which is OK with suitable tabling and strapping and thats fine is you reef intermittently. But if you reef regularly then the cross cut is better as the panel orientation stays the same.
Crosscut is a bit cheaper- less construction time and a lower yield on the cutting of the cloth.Lydia's points re reefs are very valid and the Vectron is a nice cloth (not exclusive to Hoods) I also love the Dimension Hydranet even more, it is bullet proof!!!
Edit- Working on assumption it is a Dunc 37 and slab reefing!
Listen to the man!
Agree totally, go with the best cloth, I have gone with hood vectran as I know it and it does move, I will have a look at hydrant next time as well.
L
Select to expand quoteGalatea said..
Thanks Ramona, onto it!
Ok an offshore main that will stands years of use will need all the little extra's, batten chafe webbings, reinforcing behind the liff slides etc . Lots of little things that add a bit initially but are so important "down the track".
The Newport 7.1 is a Radial cut cloth from Challenge, seem a touch light looking at the role intention. Challenge are not available in Australia but are popular with on-line lofts as they are pretty economical and a budget but ok cloth. About 50- 65% of the cost of Dimenison or Contender for example! A nice Bronze+ rating.Radial vs Crosscut, the radial sails are sexy! And do have a little better shape retention when used. But when reefed you are pulling across the corner orientated seams! Which is OK with suitable tabling and strapping and thats fine is you reef intermittently. But if you reef regularly then the cross cut is better as the panel orientation stays the same.
Crosscut is a bit cheaper- less construction time and a lower yield on the cutting of the cloth.Lydia's points re reefs are very valid and the Vectron is a nice cloth (not exclusive to Hoods) I also love the Dimension Hydranet even more, it is bullet proof!!!
Edit- Working on assumption it is a Dunc 37 and slab reefing!
Thanks for your reply,
Do you deliver Australia wide?
If so what's a average price on delivery?
also any problems building the sail to Lydia 's suggestions in his detailed post, thanks
Select to expand quoteMAGNESIUM said..Galatea said..
Thanks Ramona, onto it!
Ok an offshore main that will stands years of use will need all the little extra's, batten chafe webbings, reinforcing behind the liff slides etc . Lots of little things that add a bit initially but are so important "down the track".
The Newport 7.1 is a Radial cut cloth from Challenge, seem a touch light looking at the role intention. Challenge are not available in Australia but are popular with on-line lofts as they are pretty economical and a budget but ok cloth. About 50- 65% of the cost of Dimenison or Contender for example! A nice Bronze+ rating.Radial vs Crosscut, the radial sails are sexy! And do have a little better shape retention when used. But when reefed you are pulling across the corner orientated seams! Which is OK with suitable tabling and strapping and thats fine is you reef intermittently. But if you reef regularly then the cross cut is better as the panel orientation stays the same.
Crosscut is a bit cheaper- less construction time and a lower yield on the cutting of the cloth.Lydia's points re reefs are very valid and the Vectron is a nice cloth (not exclusive to Hoods) I also love the Dimension Hydranet even more, it is bullet proof!!!
Edit- Working on assumption it is a Dunc 37 and slab reefing!
Thanks for your reply,
Do you deliver Australia wide?
If so what's a average price on delivery?
also any problems building the sail to Lydia 's suggestions in his detailed post, thanks
Yes we do.Send me an email to bullsails@live.com.auHappy to help with any inquiries, rather do it personally. Rather than being seen to spruik for business in forums. IMHO they are for advice and interaction.
Select to expand quoteMAGNESIUM said..Galatea said..
Thanks Ramona, onto it!
Ok an offshore main that will stands years of use will need all the little extra's, batten chafe webbings, reinforcing behind the liff slides etc . Lots of little things that add a bit initially but are so important "down the track".
The Newport 7.1 is a Radial cut cloth from Challenge, seem a touch light looking at the role intention. Challenge are not available in Australia but are popular with on-line lofts as they are pretty economical and a budget but ok cloth. About 50- 65% of the cost of Dimenison or Contender for example! A nice Bronze+ rating.Radial vs Crosscut, the radial sails are sexy! And do have a little better shape retention when used. But when reefed you are pulling across the corner orientated seams! Which is OK with suitable tabling and strapping and thats fine is you reef intermittently. But if you reef regularly then the cross cut is better as the panel orientation stays the same.
Crosscut is a bit cheaper- less construction time and a lower yield on the cutting of the cloth.Lydia's points re reefs are very valid and the Vectron is a nice cloth (not exclusive to Hoods) I also love the Dimension Hydranet even more, it is bullet proof!!!
Edit- Working on assumption it is a Dunc 37 and slab reefing!
Thanks for your reply,
Do you deliver Australia wide?
If so what's a average price on delivery?
also any problems building the sail to Lydia 's suggestions in his detailed post, thanks
M
Every boat and owners needs are different so have a good chat to G.
what I choose works for me based my own experiences and other people will have different experiences.
and lastly, I don't mind paying good money to get a long lasting product and the detail gets you the long lasting product.
my 20 cents
L
Select to expand quoteMAGNESIUM said..
Wow great input guys, I like the idea of the webbing for reefing that's the kind of stuff I am looking for, over size luff tape and I once saw one triple stitched.
I will look into that HOOD VECTRON.
would be nice to find a sail maker who lights up and knows exactly what you are wanting instead of the one who orders the panels and just wants to sew them together and chucked his name on it.
Lydia do you have a link to the guy you use ?
I am in Port Stephens and the closest sail maker we have is Lake Macquarie.
Talking about Tasker what are their offshore sails like? Are they prepared to listen and build a custom sail?
yep going with reef 1-3 great idea.
I was planning to build a sail over time, but last night I pulled the main down and it just ripped right across, and I thought it was in good Nick.
so now it's a job to done ASAP
Seems you dont like sailmakers much.
pretty well all sails are now designed by a computer programme and cut on a plotter. So the ones who are just ordering panels are simply using the suppliers plotter rather than their own.
be carful using the term tripple stitched. Tripple stitch is a type of stitching which has three stitches in every zig and zag as opposed to one in regular zigzag stitching. Better to talk in number of rows of stitching because you may for example have 3 rows of tripple stitch for seams in larger crosscut sails, or the broad seams in radial.
