Select to expand quotesirgallivant said..
Lazy jacks - l am convinced - look like snake pits.
Also, I think, they increase windage high up, one might use it as a third reef packed up. To add, it might make reefing difficult as one could not get to the horn easily. For this reason one has to dance on the top of the cabin anyway.
Just a thought here, l hope when you are sailing and dancing on the cabin top you always wear a harness and clip on with a tether?!
In high winds - l think - it is bound to cause grief sooner or later flapping around, catching something, interfering with the running back stays, reefing lines, boom uphaul and whatever problems high winds could conjure up.
Please pick my argument to bits, convince me of my futile ways of sticking to nicely flaked hand packed mains.
Just to add, l am not trying to criticize lazy jacks and it's use, l am just worried, if something goes wrong it will go wrong horribly, where the way out of it might make one think he never ever had one installed.
I read all comments twice and l have to admit you are all fans of it.
Whoever l would like to hear of opinions critical of lazy jacks, so to see the other side of the coin.
When I was re installing my lazy jacks down at the marina, the fella who's boat was opposite mine came over for a chat, He and his wife had extensively traveled in their Van Der Stadt and he went on to say that he uses only one side of his lazy jacks, and had removed the other. He likes to be able to bring down the sail and hold it against the jacks and be free to move along the boom to lash the sail to it. He said he didn't like the way the sail always seem to snag on them when hoisting and dousing, usually when he least wanted it to, so by removing one side he reckon it was better because he could steer the sail away from them.
Samsturdy,so that suppose to mean that all of you are on medication? 
I spent most of the day paddling around checking out lazy jacks. One is certain, there are better ones around.
I have seen quite a few, tonight at the Marina after dinner spent more time looking around.
Something must be in it. Generally, the opinion of a village is seldom wrong.
Thanks for your thoughts!
Interesting discussion:
My take is that there are as many answers as there are sailors.
Read the name carefully it gives you a strong clue about the pros and cons of using them.
Lazy jacks are useful when:
Day sailing in less than 10kts.
Going out with not so experienced crew. But have some one crew capable of holding the boat into the wind (Can use autopilot here)
Being able to always hold the boat "into the wind' when raising or lowering the main. This does not men in the general direction of the wind but within 5 degrees.
All boats with lazy jacks will snag the battens at some time or other without exception.
Lazy jacks are a a pain when:
Departing or arriving in more than 10kts.
Sailing alone in less than ideal conditions. especially without autopilot.
Attempting to raise or lower the main when not able to hold boat "into the wind".
Lazy jacks are in fact dangerous if sailing alone and not being fully mobile.
I went through the stages of not having lazy jacks when younger and agile.
Then installing lazy jacks as I went sailing only on chosen days, and when I thought I was getting a little less agile. Unfortunately I was still a little too adventurous and went sailing under any and all conditions and had battens snagging when I needed to raise or lower the main cleanly.
Following some health issues which now I have to accept the fact that I am not as agile as in the past but still wanting to sail as often as I can, I have been known to have to triple reef the main and then arrive at port and lower the main in strong winds.
I have now removed the lazy jacks as for me they become a bigger problem than what I was prepared to put up with.
Having said all the above, there is a place for lazy jacks but not now on my boat.
Finally, if you install lazy jacks I strongly suggest that they areinstalled in a manner that once the sail is raised the jacks are brought back to the mast at the gooseneck and only released back into position if the conditions are ideal. ie. Less than 10kts and with compeent crew or autopilot capable of holding the boat into the wind.
Happy and safe sailing,
Not Lazy sailing.
I've used lazy jacks in over 30knts to take in a second slab reef (by myself) and was glad I had them. Sure made the job easy. I suppose it may depend on how they are setup.
Best thing since sliced bread and they've made sailing a safer experience for me. The name Lazy Jack comes from the fact you can perform the same task with less manpower. Nothing to do with being lazy.
It is generally claimed that the name has its origins in the colloquial reference to British sailors as "Jack tars". "Lazy jacks" would therefore point to reduction of manpower and effort that lazy jacks provide.
10knts (no comment)
There must be some badly setup lazy jacks out there! And Jolene I think the bloke with the Van de Stadt was taking the piss.
yeh your spot on there ramona with a good setup I cant see how you can go wrong
as some say not needed on a race boat but anything else they are a must have
Topic is a bit complex in that there is no one answer to suit all cases so just a few more qualifiers:
Cruising cats must have lazy jacks.
Larger monos, where working on deck level at the mast with your arms above your head, in the air, high boom. Must have lazy jacks.
When alone I basically need to be able to manhandle the boat in close quarters eg in a marina, this limits the size to less than around 34 ft.
Just an indication above 34 ft the boom is high, therefore lazy jacks are a must, a competent crew is required.
With a low boom where I can work with my arms around chest level - typically boats less than 34ft, and I can easily manhandle in close quarters, slab reef, no lazy jacks. This allows me to go sailing solo on many more occasions.
I am now 70 years of age and my criteria is:
Sail solo as often as I can. Boat less than 34ft, low boom, work at chest level, no lazy jacks. Go sailing 2 or 3 times a week and extended cruising alone.
Sail in company 3 to 4 times a month. Boat 34 ft and above high boom, work with arms over head, use lazy jacks, competent crew works at mast to tidy up sail, I remain at the helm at these times. I am unable to be effective working with my arms in the air.
In summary, get out as often as you can and make the the boat as easy to handle as you can either solo or in company. This will only be done by going out often and in varying conditions. What is easy and comfortably for you can't be learned from others or in books, you must try it and practice again and again.
What ever the situation as long as you can go out sailing it is all good.
Cheers
Interesting points raised Pekeri, although I tend to agree with Crusoe about the origins of the name. As a totally inexperienced sailor of elderly disposition but nonetheless adventuress I need to make life safe and easy (as possible of course) so I'm thinking of raising the mainsail while still on my swing mooring, thereby always being 'into the wind' keeping it 'centered' until I get out on Pittwater and then pull out the headsail, and do the reverse at the end of the day so I get back to the mooring with mainsail up and then drop it into the lazy jacks and zip it up. If thats doable then it seems the safest way to me. However if something drastic happens to the weather while I'm out there (and it's happened to me before) then I at least have a chance of coping with the situation. I may no longer have the muscles but I've still got my marbles!!!!.
Hi Sam,
I don' know the size of your boat - working with arms in the air is the biggest issue for me. Just try it first. Use cord ties to fit the small eyes and pulleys for the lazy jacks. Adjust the positions to suit you.
eg. The fitting at the spreaders, some fit under the spreader close to the mast, others a bit further out to give a wider area for the sail. Others still fit them above the spreader on the mast itself. Try it all out before you start fixing permanently, I don' like using a drill on any part of my boat.
Tie a cord around the mast below the goose neck to allow you to experiment in pulling the lazy jacks to the mast and out of the way.
My boat is on a swing mooring in a very congested area and I am the closest in to shore where the bottom rises sharply about 20 ft to the east of my mooring.i
I basically have to be able to pick up my mooring first time every time, which so far I have managed to do.
Also to make life easier I use a long pole on my mooring to pick up. No boat hook and no need to lean out of the boat, just reach out comfortably and grab the pole, a rope on the pick up helps to keep the weight down. On occasions I can stay in the cockpit and as I go SLOWLY past I grab the mooring pick up pole and then walk to the bow and tie up.
Safe sailing
If you're snagging battens its not setup properly. If you have to be dead into the wind then its not setup properly. If they don't work in +10kn then they're not setup properly. Something doesn't make sense, if I and seemingly the majority can do all of the above hassle free. Also from the thread it would appear to be a range of boats in a range of sizes as well.
It is precisely why I think the lazy jacks were the best cheapest improvement we made, because none of those problems occur.
Last weekend, I pulled up the main in 10kn running off the wind singlehandedly going out Cairns Inlet, with a plethora of charter ferries screaming past. The shorebreeze died, I pulled up the #2, and the 2nd wind kicked in the boat was overpowered so put in the 2nd reef, no dramas. Eventually it was 15-20kn steady and gusting 25, so I dropped the main and continued doing hull speed just with #2. Got to our marina just as the breeze dropped off. It was a great really interesting sail because the wind was so variable, we normally only have 2 winds here 25kn SE or 10kn N. Anyway my point is the lazy jacks worked exactly as they're supposed to and it would've been doable but a bit of a struggle St without them. I am by no means the most experienced or knowledgeable but I know what works for me and many others.
Hi Pekeri. My boat is a 28ft Santana, so it's not big and the boom is not too long, however that said I still need to make things easy. I sail with my wife who does her very best to help but she's not in as good a shape as me so I can't rely on her for any 'heavy' work. So I too have a pick up pole on my mooring and she does go up front and pick that up and hangs on to it 'til I get there (very helpful). Fortunately my mooring is very sheltered and is really only open to the North and it all helps.
Slammin. The whole idea of the thread was to get opinions on the worth of lazy jacks and overwhelmingly it's agreed they are a good addition. Setting them up correctly in the first place, as you have pointed out, is important to me which is why I was asking questions like do I attach them to the mast or out on the spreaders for instance. The response has been such that it has given me a very good clue as to how to go about the project, which is the worth of this forum. I'm still open to advice and suggestions from anybody who would like to comment.
The original Question was ..... " Lazy Jacks - are they worth it." Obviously for anything to be worth anything it has to function correctly. If we take a very rough estimate and say that about 95% of cruising boats have lazy jacks, then yes all those people can't surely all be wrong as to whether they are worth it, consensus seems to suggest they are worth it. Maybe the question now should be "What is the best way of rigging your lazy jacks" to minimize any problems.
Select to expand quoteLooseChange said..
The original Question was ..... " Lazy Jacks - are they worth it." Obviously for anything to be worth anything it has to function correctly. If we take a very rough estimate and say that about 95% of cruising boats have lazy jacks, then yes all those people can't surely all be wrong as to whether they are worth it, consensus seems to suggest they are worth it. Maybe the question now should be "What is the best way of rigging your lazy jacks" to minimize any problems.
Thats a great idea L.C.
I am just sitting in the corner of my cockpit and looking up the main sail, nice and well set. The wind is nowhere to be seen.
I had plenty of time to think about the price of anti fouling, coming from the slip, and my research about lazy jacks last night in the Marina and at large.
I got a 28 with an elaborate, very strong rigging, double spreader, cutter rig, running back-stays beside the adjustable back stay. The boat was a cat.3 ocean racer originally. It is an Adams. I do not have to reef at 15 knots not even 20 if l do not want to. I sail - mostly - on my own, l am 6"2' and quite fit in my early sixties.
I crew on racing yachts regularly.
By the time l got near my mooring the wind was blowing 15 going 18-20 in sqalls. I have and use an auto pilot but mostly l use my hooked-up truck tyres to control my tiller. It works quite well at tacking or gybing too in higher winds when the auto pilot is overwhelmed by the forces.
I was approaching my mooring on main only, l furled the genoa started the engine earlier, then turned to run up wind, my 'truck tyres' controlling the tiller, not trusting the auto pilot in the sqalls. lt is only a small one.
Dead into the wind, grabbed three bungees, let the main halyard down under control, in the mean time l was on the top of the cabin pulling the sail down and clipping the three bungees on the boom. Done.
Up to the mooring slowly against wind and tide, luckily, grab boat hook, go fore, pick up. Done.
Flake main on boom, tie properly with sail ties, sort ropes etc. have the first drink of the day.
That is the way l do it, how l learned.
The lazy jacks, l think, would not have helped me here.
If the squalls messed up the ropes - l am saying, IF - l would have been in more trouble than l have bargained for. After all, the ropes could not be tied back at the mast before dropping the main.
After reading the latest comments, l still consider, but for the time being, no lazy jacks for me.
Not yet.
I made this quick video today when I was out sailing. Ignore the flapping leech, the leech line came loose after the last furling. I actually left the cockpit after I filmed this and tightened it up. Topping lift is way too slack too.
What I wanted to demonstrate was how the lazy jacks have no effect on the sail whilst sailing. The jacks are made from 5 mm silver rope spliced around SS thimbles. On the windward side they rarely even touch the sail. Leeward side they occasionally do but its a just a brushing with the silver rope.
It is a very good video, the jacks hardly touching the sail.
True.
My running back stays (S/S) doing more damage to the sail than any jack will ever do.
I was not worried about chafing. Well, really, l am not worried at all.
After all l am sitting on the side line. Silently learning.
That looks to be a very well built mainsail Ramona, looking good ... is that an HF antenna on the backstay?
Select to expand quoteclaverton said..
That looks to be a very well built mainsail Ramona, looking good ... is that an HF antenna on the backstay?
Yes.
Five minutes later the NE freshened and I had brisk conditions for the rest of my sail. I came home sailing dead down wind with the vane steering. During one fairly violent correction The SS tiller on the vane bent enough for a couple of shackles to catch on the frame and then snap the pushrod and damage some teeth on the bevel gears. Back at the mooring I unbolted the whole unit and brought it home. I will weld up a stronger SS tiller. If the shackles had the pins facing aft nothing would have broken! Something to consider for your self steering.
