Another yacht resuce, this time in the Indian Ocean ~1300km southwest of Cape Leeuwin.
www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-19/south-african-men-rescued-from-stricken-jedi-1-yacht-off-wa/8367580
Great looking yacht, anyone know what design it is?
some sort of rigging failure by the looks,
still has most of its gear hanging on the arch.
Yeah BM with that arch etc still intact it looks like a failed (side) stay may have led to the mast loss. Doesn't look like a roll over.
why would you attempt a serious ocean crossing with a big dinghy hanging off the back?
Select to expand quoteclaverton said..
why would you attempt a serious ocean crossing with a big dinghy hanging off the back?
I was thinking the same thing...
Another case of terrible seamanship IMHO. If you can't rig a jury rig and rudder then don't cross an ocean.
I'm wondering when we should start charging people for rescues like this. Obviously its problematic but so is the current tendency to just whine and cry for mummy if a bit of gear breaks.
Boat looks Ok. Just drop some fuel and keep motoring with some sort of jerry rig. Maybe they just wanted off.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
Another case of terrible seamanship IMHO. If you can't rig a jury rig and rudder then don't cross an ocean.
I'm wondering when we should start charging people for rescues like this. Obviously its problematic but so is the current tendency to just whine and cry for mummy if a bit of gear breaks.
This was a lot of my point with the last one.
Additionally people (not directed at any person ) leaving under equipped and prepared. Why shouldn't someone who is in the situation of not being prepared or just scared and wanting off pay for it.
Select to expand quotetwodogs1969 said..Chris 249 said..
Another case of terrible seamanship IMHO. If you can't rig a jury rig and rudder then don't cross an ocean.
I'm wondering when we should start charging people for rescues like this. Obviously its problematic but so is the current tendency to just whine and cry for mummy if a bit of gear breaks.
This was a lot of my point with the last one.
Additionally people (not directed at any person ) leaving under equipped and prepared. Why shouldn't someone who is in the situation of not being prepared or just scared and wanting off pay for it.
I don't believe any body should be charged to be rescued. Any one of us could need to be rescued one day whether we are miles to sea or just out in the bay. It is comforting to know if someone gets our call they will come and rescue with no questions asked. If they charge we will all pay as it will more than likely be insurance companies doing the paying hence massive premium hikes. It could happen to any of us, hit a submerged object and hole the boat. If not insured you not only lose the boat but you lose every thing else. We live in a great country with a great system that looks out for us all. Let's not stuff it up and suggest to our politicians to start charging.
There is a difference between an accident and being underprepared or just scared.
If you scrimp on preparation or set out in a vessel you know is not up to the voyage why shouldn't you pay?
You drive an unroadworthy vehicle and get caught you get fined.
Seriously these guys were dismasted as Chris said if they are going to sea atleast have a plan on how to make a jury rig. In another article is says they were out of fuel?
Shouldn't you make sure you have sufficient to yse along with jury rig to reach somewhere? Why not hang with the boat and get a fuel drop? And CHARGE them for the fuel!
Googling the name its a lavranos 41.
Imagine if they just dropped fuel and the people perished!
Select to expand quotetwodogs1969 said..
There is a difference between an accident and being underprepared or just scared.
If you scrimp on preparation or set out in a vessel you know is not up to the voyage why shouldn't you pay?
You drive an unroadworthy vehicle and get caught you get fined.
Seriously these guys were dismasted as Chris said if they are going to sea atleast have a plan on how to make a jury rig. In another article is says they were out of fuel?
Shouldn't you make sure you have sufficient to yse along with jury rig to reach somewhere? Why not hang with the boat and get a fuel drop? And CHARGE them for the fuel!
Who is going to say if a boat and crew are underprepared ? A court ! When you have a mishap in your boat and some bureaucrat says you are not prepared or not experienced the only option is to spend your life savings fighting him in court and I can bet they will find some little thing you could have done better. The system we have now looks after all sailors even if you do something dumb. You only need to look at some of the sailors on this forum who lack experience, yet they are sailing to the best of their ability. If they had an accident due to their lack is experience, but are sailing to the best of their ability, do you think they should pay to be rescued? Let's stick with the system we have now that look after us all. He who has never done something dumb can cast the first stone.
A good case for keeping the spinnaker pole, lashed on the side deck, rather than attached to the mast.
Even if it was being used when the mast went over the side, & they felt they had to cut it away, you would probably carry two poles wouldn't you?
Any other ideas for a jury rig mast?
Select to expand quoteJode5 said..twodogs1969 said..
There is a difference between an accident and being underprepared or just scared.
If you scrimp on preparation or set out in a vessel you know is not up to the voyage why shouldn't you pay?
You drive an unroadworthy vehicle and get caught you get fined.
Seriously these guys were dismasted as Chris said if they are going to sea atleast have a plan on how to make a jury rig. In another article is says they were out of fuel?
Shouldn't you make sure you have sufficient to yse along with jury rig to reach somewhere? Why not hang with the boat and get a fuel drop? And CHARGE them for the fuel!
Who is going to say if a boat and crew are underprepared ? A court ! When you have a mishap in your boat and some bureaucrat says you are not prepared or not experienced the only option is to spend your life savings fighting him in court and I can bet they will find some little thing you could have done better. The system we have now looks after all sailors even if you do something dumb. You only need to look at some of the sailors on this forum who lack experience, yet they are sailing to the best of their ability. If they had an accident due to their lack is experience, but are sailing to the best of their ability, do you think they should pay to be rescued? Let's stick with the system we have now that look after us all. He who has never done something dumb can cast the first stone.
How about I put it this way.
If I leave in a wooden boat you know has broken ribs and rotten timbers crappy electrics and a dodgy motor.
Should I be held responsible?
Most that have sailed for a while know if people who have set to sea in boats in this condition. Granted the ones I know of were doing a short delivery but I am sure people are taking boats in this condition on passages.
Select to expand quotetwodogs1969 said..Jode5 said..twodogs1969 said..
There is a difference between an accident and being underprepared or just scared.
If you scrimp on preparation or set out in a vessel you know is not up to the voyage why shouldn't you pay?
You drive an unroadworthy vehicle and get caught you get fined.
Seriously these guys were dismasted as Chris said if they are going to sea atleast have a plan on how to make a jury rig. In another article is says they were out of fuel?
Shouldn't you make sure you have sufficient to yse along with jury rig to reach somewhere? Why not hang with the boat and get a fuel drop? And CHARGE them for the fuel!
Who is going to say if a boat and crew are underprepared ? A court ! When you have a mishap in your boat and some bureaucrat says you are not prepared or not experienced the only option is to spend your life savings fighting him in court and I can bet they will find some little thing you could have done better. The system we have now looks after all sailors even if you do something dumb. You only need to look at some of the sailors on this forum who lack experience, yet they are sailing to the best of their ability. If they had an accident due to their lack is experience, but are sailing to the best of their ability, do you think they should pay to be rescued? Let's stick with the system we have now that look after us all. He who has never done something dumb can cast the first stone.
How about I put it this way.
If I leave in a wooden boat you know has broken ribs and rotten timbers crappy electrics and a dodgy motor.
Should I be held responsible?
Most that have sailed for a while know if people who have set to sea in boats in this condition. Granted the ones I know of were doing a short delivery but I am sure people are taking boats in this condition on passages.
I know what you are saying but where do you draw the line in the sand. Unfortunately with law good people are going to end up in court fighting that little bureaucrat who thinks your boat was unseaworthy. Unfortunately we also need to rescue the sailing idiots the same as we rescue underprepared bush walkers, mountain climbers and many other activities.
pretty flash boat this one as was this one
www.facebook.com/salvamentomaritimo.es/videos/632958896889786/
it would appear that the skippers aboard these vessels were a) not short of a dollar and well equipped boats and b) made a choice or two that lead to their rescue.
That catamaran is about 1 million euros ,automatic everything but the skipper had too much sail up resulting in dismasting. i love the way one of the rescued waves to his friends aboard who are waiting to be rescued.
They also have a decent rib on the stern and were only 8 miles from the coast...
a case of more money than sense.
What about the sail chutes you attach to the bow and fly if mast is lost good investment I would think.
Select to expand quotesouthace said..
What about the sail chutes you attach to the bow and fly if mast is lost good investment I would think.
Unfortunately you need a mast to set a sail chute.
Looks as if all their gear was lost with the mast, so what would they use for a jury rig?
That huge tri ( can't remember its name, but it wound up in charter in the Whitsundays) lost its rig in the Tasman when the rigging screws lock nuts loosened and the screws unwound. Strange things can happen to dismast you even on the best run boats.
pulled off another forum...
"Most taxpayers love the entertainment, drama and hero value of yacht rescues - they should pay for it - they pay millions to watch a game of footy.
Whingers love to have something to whine about so they should pay too."
I'm all for user pays, but in the context of ocean rescues, those naval vessels or police boats would have been motoring around in circles anyway on 'excersises' or some other training routine. At least they are doing something useful on the taxpayer's dime.
I am so proud of our Navy.
A sailor or vessel in trouble, we dont ask for a credit card, we just save them. That is what sailors do.
I was checking out our latest acquisition at Freo a few days ago - Amphibious assault with helicopter/jet take of ramp. Looked big & cool. Our navy has lots of hardware well prepared to do serious stuff. And they want to do serious stuff. Not sitting in port on standby.
We are privileged having the resources we do, lets use them. Recall some years back all those solo sailors we rescued? Our Oriens popping them first go from the air, and our frigates hauling capsized sailors from the briny. Front page kudos world wide. Go RAN!!! :-)
The southern ocean is the worst place on earth to be in distress. But it is on our watch.
I am so proud our Royal Australian Navy will go there to help anyone that needs help. Thats what we do.
:-) :-) :-)
Select to expand quotePhoenixStar said..southace said..
What about the sail chutes you attach to the bow and fly if mast is lost good investment I would think.
Unfortunately you need a mast to set a sail chute.
Looks as if all their gear was lost with the mast, so what would they use for a jury rig?
That huge tri ( can't remember its name, but it wound up in charter in the Whitsundays) lost its rig in the Tasman when the rigging screws lock nuts loosened and the screws unwound. Strange things can happen to dismast you even on the best run boats.
Not all chutes / kites need a mast. This is pretty technical and requires a lot of trim, but a simpler version may help in a self rescue if the rig is lost.
Select to expand quotemorningsun said..
Not all chutes / kites need a mast. This is pretty technical and requires a lot of trim, but a simpler version may help in a self rescue if the rig is lost.
Definitley possible, but a huge traction kite would be required to tow a large vessel. I need a 12 m^2 kite just to move me in 20 knots 
That said, I think a kite would make a useful addition to any one's emergency life raft.
Select to expand quotetwodogs1969 said..
There is a difference between an accident and being underprepared or just scared.
If you scrimp on preparation or set out in a vessel you know is not up to the voyage why shouldn't you pay?
You drive an unroadworthy vehicle and get caught you get fined.
Seriously these guys were dismasted as Chris said if they are going to sea atleast have a plan on how to make a jury rig. In another article is says they were out of fuel?
Shouldn't you make sure you have sufficient to yse along with jury rig to reach somewhere? Why not hang with the boat and get a fuel drop? And CHARGE them for the fuel!
Ummmm....just wondering, how much fuel would they need for 1300Km?
I did clarify and say with a jury rig .
I looked at a Roberts 43 when I was tossing up weather to buy a big boat or medium sized and it carried 1400 ltrs.
Select to expand quotePoodle said..
I am so proud of our Navy.
A sailor or vessel in trouble, we dont ask for a credit card, we just save them. That is what sailors do.
I was checking out our latest acquisition at Freo a few days ago - Amphibious assault with helicopter/jet take of ramp. Looked big & cool. Our navy has lots of hardware well prepared to do serious stuff. And they want to do serious stuff. Not sitting in port on standby.
We are privileged having the resources we do, lets use them. Recall some years back all those solo sailors we rescued? Our Oriens popping them first go from the air, and our frigates hauling capsized sailors from the briny. Front page kudos world wide. Go RAN!!! :-)
The southern ocean is the worst place on earth to be in distress. But it is on our watch.
I am so proud our Royal Australian Navy will go there to help anyone that needs help. Thats what we do.
:-) :-) :-)
+1 also these rescues give our navy invaluable experience in a real life situations, I'm usually one of the first to call for user pays but when it comes to situations like this, then waiting to see if someone can afford to pay for a rescue seems a little cold hearted to me, also if we all waited to be completely prepared for an ocean crossing then a) we'd never set,off as theres always something else we could do, b)we'd overload our boats with all the spare parts for all the systems on the boat that could break down whilst under passage and c) there would still be something that we forgot to do before leaving the dock, also the cost of rescuing someone in the Southern ocean wouldn't put a dint in the Governments budget if you really want the government to save money how about looking closer to home and demand they get rid of all the paid parental schemes, that as a non parent I strongly disapprove of, if people can't afford kids without help from the Government to pay for them they damned wellshouldn't have them
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
I'm amazed at all the crap on the stern.
yeah doesnt look good!
You never can tell from pictures but at this point in the wave cycle it only looks maybe 2 metre swell, if that.
And if they can carry 1000L of fuel they possibly used it all up already. That would have got them to the coast.
Theres a great movie called 180 south. Its about some surfer/rock climbers and they sail from the US down to the South america, then to Easter Islands. On the way to Easter Islands , their mast breaks.
The narrator says he thought they would just cut it loose and keep going, but they spend a few hours retrieving the mast - every last bit. They motor to Easter Is and fix the mast - the full spar and carry on their journey.
Im sure losing a mast would be a frightening thing, however, in theory the mast would still be connected to the boat.
Im speculating in my mind here as i always think about this stuff, but i believe youd have a choice whether to cut it all free and watch it sink, or try pulling it aboard. Of course youd have to think about spreaders piercing the hull(like the big cat in spain did recently when their mast came down)
All sorts of things could have happened and have happened to really experienced sailors ie fouled props as a result of wires over the sides during a dismasting. Pretty sure in the 98 hobart this happened to at least 1 boat rendering it as a flotation/big life raft at the mercy of a breaking sea.
Select to expand quoteSectorsteve said..Ramona said..
I'm amazed at all the crap on the stern.
yeah doesnt look good!
You never can tell from pictures but at this point in the wave cycle it only looks maybe 2 metre swell, if that.
And if they can carry 1000L of fuel they possibly used it all up already. That would have got them to the coast.
Theres a great movie called 180 south. Its about some surfer/rock climbers and they sail from the US down to the South america, then to Easter Islands. On the way to Easter Islands , their mast breaks.
The narrator says he thought they would just cut it loose and keep going, but they spend a few hours retrieving the mast - every last bit. They motor to Easter Is and fix the mast - the full spar and carry on their journey.
Im sure losing a mast would be a frightening thing, however, in theory the mast would still be connected to the boat.
Im speculating in my mind here as i always think about this stuff, but i believe youd have a choice whether to cut it all free and watch it sink, or try pulling it aboard. Of course youd have to think about spreaders piercing the hull(like the big cat in spain did recently when their mast came down)
All sorts of things could have happened and have happened to really experienced sailors ie fouled props as a result of wires over the sides during a dismasting. Pretty sure in the 98 hobart this happened to at least 1 boat rendering it as a flotation/big life raft at the mercy of a breaking sea.
Hard to tell from the armchair, but if the mast were to be recovered it would have to be brought alongside and even with fenders there may be sharp bits trying to hole the hull. It may be impossible to rescue boom or sails to make a jury rig without sending crew over the side, and that might not be a good idea in those latitudes and with all the floating crap around after a dismasting.
would be real hard. that mast might be close to 200kg. Those guys in Easter island were able to do this in pretty calm conditions and they had to go over the side to do it.
