The bottom fitting that attaches the rudder to the keel on my Compass 28 has fallen off, (disappeared)
the tiller felt loose so anchored dove over the side went to lift the rudder expecting bearing wear only to find the bottom of the rudder just hanging there.
my main concern is finding someone with the skill to fabricate the shoe and fit to better than new.
Do any of the brain trust know of anyone retired or in business who could do the job ?
boat will have to come out and match up with the fabricator will have to be one of the yards out west of the bay the boat is my home and regulations strangle you with the big names.
by any chance do any Compass 28 owners have a photo showing the fitting?
any help is gratefully appreciated am very stressed wondering when the keel will just fall off.
Have you tried contacting the Compass Yacht Group? sites.google.com/site/compassyachtgroup/home - a collection of Compass 28 owner and ex-owners.
Convenor/registrar is Geoffrey Raebel at raebel.g@iinet.net.au
Mag, it was done on my Northerner 28 (C28 predecessor) about 6 years ago, the delirin? bearing was replaced. The rest were a simple shoe and a pin to a gudgeon thing. Maybe photos are on the C28 site, otherwise will be able to access my main computer Sunday evening.
Rest assured that it is a simple bracket/shoe and gudgeon thing, most welders could manage to fabricate from a stainless steel bolt and sheet stainless.
Google turns up Port Stephens Sheet Metal dot come dot au
Check this out: Here are dimensions and some people that had it done. Google "compass 28 pintle gudgeon dimensions"
groups.google.com/g/compass-yacht-group/c/diPlQYUuH8k
If you look, there's the name of an outfit in Paramatta that have made / sold them.
Select to expand quoteJonE said..
Google turns up Port Stephens Sheet Metal dot come dot au
Check this out: Here are dimensions and some people that had it done. Google "compass 28 pintle gudgeon dimensions"
groups.google.com/g/compass-yacht-group/c/diPlQYUuH8k
If you look, there's the name of an outfit in Paramatta that have made / sold them.
Thanks JonE I must be so stressed I have brain fog I read your link , and found some more information, glad to see i am not the only one going through the same problem.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Sailing/General/Removing-a-compass-28-rudder?page=1
Select to expand quoteMAGNESIUM said..JonE said..
Google turns up Port Stephens Sheet Metal dot come dot au
Check this out: Here are dimensions and some people that had it done. Google "compass 28 pintle gudgeon dimensions"
groups.google.com/g/compass-yacht-group/c/diPlQYUuH8k
If you look, there's the name of an outfit in Paramatta that have made / sold them.
Thanks JonE I must be so stressed I have brain fog I read your link , and found some more information, glad to see i am not the only one going through the same problem.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Sailing/General/Removing-a-compass-28-rudder?page=1
Mate I know the feeling. As soon as something goes wrong your brain automatically assumes it's going to cost ten grand.
I like the look of those guys in Paramatta - I think call them and see if they can just make you one? Maybe you have to haul the boat... I feel your pain!
On my main computer, not the dog and bone
First 2 photos are the bottom socket thing with the Novasteen bushing, which the boat yard replaced in my 2016 antifoul period. The 3rd photo is the bottom of the keel, where that thing came off from. 4th photo is the bushing where the rudder goes into the cockpit, and you have the cockpit photo and tiller thing from the Compass forum and my post therein.
When I did all this, I collated all the notes posted in the C28 forum about the topic. From these notes:
3 Delrin (plastic) bearings 1 at the bottom and 1 at each end of the tube. I expect these are 1 1/4" long by 1" bore by 1 1/2" +5 thou interference fit OD. A machine shop with delrin could turn these up. Getting the rudder out, get a profile shot of a C28 and speak to the boatyard you should be able to do it if the boat is far enough forward on the cradle and with about 20" clearance below for the rudder to slide forward and down. Even easier off a travellift. The C28 rudder has no water seal and the best indication of worn bearings is cockpit flooding at high power settings
I can answer for a C29. The shaft OD is 1.000 ". The rudder bottom pintle is also a 1.000". and the bush in the cast bronze fitting that positions the lower end of the rudder is a sintered bronze bush ID 1.00" and OD 1.25" length about 1". I increased the bush ID to a clearance of 0.006" by using a emery flap wheel in a drill. You should accurately measure the OD of the pintle to set the clearance. The bronze fitting was held in place by two copper rods that were peened at each end. I replaced these with type 304 SS bolts Dia 5/16", penny washers and nylock nuts. The bolts lengths were 3" and 3 1/2" due to the taper in the bronze casting.
"Some plastics swell in salt water (Delrin and especially nylon suffer from this problem). Dimensional changes of up to 6% have been responsible for a number of siezed or tight systems." He recommends something called UHMWPE (ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene) Incidentally I came across soem words of wisdom in a Nigel Calder book.
That's the relevant parts. My experience you read in your link "removing a Compass28 rudder" also summarised the process.
Any competent boat yard with some people to weld stainless steel will be able to do the job; you just need clearance or to remove the rudder while in the travel lift.
Good luck
Select to expand quoteFabulousPhill said..
On my main computer, not the dog and bone
First 2 photos are the bottom socket thing with the Novasteen bushing, which the boat yard replaced in my 2016 antifoul period. The 3rd photo is the bottom of the keel, where that thing came off from. 4th photo is the bushing where the rudder goes into the cockpit, and you have the cockpit photo and tiller thing from the Compass forum and my post therein.
When I did all this, I collated all the notes posted in the C28 forum about the topic. From these notes:
3 Delrin (plastic) bearings 1 at the bottom and 1 at each end of the tube. I expect these are 1 1/4" long by 1" bore by 1 1/2" +5 thou interference fit OD. A machine shop with delrin could turn these up. Getting the rudder out, get a profile shot of a C28 and speak to the boatyard you should be able to do it if the boat is far enough forward on the cradle and with about 20" clearance below for the rudder to slide forward and down. Even easier off a travellift. The C28 rudder has no water seal and the best indication of worn bearings is cockpit flooding at high power settings
I can answer for a C29. The shaft OD is 1.000 ". The rudder bottom pintle is also a 1.000". and the bush in the cast bronze fitting that positions the lower end of the rudder is a sintered bronze bush ID 1.00" and OD 1.25" length about 1". I increased the bush ID to a clearance of 0.006" by using a emery flap wheel in a drill. You should accurately measure the OD of the pintle to set the clearance. The bronze fitting was held in place by two copper rods that were peened at each end. I replaced these with type 304 SS bolts Dia 5/16", penny washers and nylock nuts. The bolts lengths were 3" and 3 1/2" due to the taper in the bronze casting.
"Some plastics swell in salt water (Delrin and especially nylon suffer from this problem). Dimensional changes of up to 6% have been responsible for a number of siezed or tight systems." He recommends something called UHMWPE (ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene) Incidentally I came across soem words of wisdom in a Nigel Calder book.
That's the relevant parts. My experience you read in your link "removing a Compass28 rudder" also summarised the process.
Any competent boat yard with some people to weld stainless steel will be able to do the job; you just need clearance or to remove the rudder while in the travel lift.
Good luck
Phil that is fantastic information thankyou,
does the rudder have to be removed to replace the bottom gudgen ?
both yards here use cradles , I can't see them allowing holes to be dug .
i read the posts on the google compass site they where talking about the copper tube in the glass tube being perished.
certainly is a big plus to the transom hung rudders
Mag, no holes need be dug, as you can see, the boat is on the cradle a good 50cm above the ground and/or it was done with the travel lift raising it a little.
Perhaps the rudder doesn't need to be removed to replace the bottom gudgeon. You're only replacing the gudgeon, not the middle or top bearings. I guess you are right; I didn't think of that.
My boat is 58 years of age, so ten years ago these bearings needed replacing.
wel done Phil.
fwiw, I replaced mine in 2017. It cost $450, done by Geordi in Moorabbin.
The upper bushings should be sized for an 1 1/2" copper tube, same as for the cutlass. In fact I had a bit of cutlass left over which I used in the lower end of the tube.
Re leaking into the cockpit from the upper bush (which they all do as the bush wears) I have a simple fix: get a 1 x 1 1/2" lip seal, with its gaiter spring replaced by an o-ring, Put it into an approx 50mm long piece of clear PVC tube. Remove the tiller and slip the lower end of the tube over the copper tube. Fix both with a cable tie. Lasts about 5 years which gives you time to save up for another $5 seal.
Cheers, Graeme
Ok guys (gals) I got onto Porters and they answered my email very quickly, they do hold some patterns and have asked me to measure the marks of the straps on the keel and the width of the keel where it straps and the shaft width. Which from the posts here should be one inch ????
if anyone already has that information it will save me beaching the boat to get them , thanks again everyone.
JonE your spot on I automatically thought $10,000
