Fleming vane or spare autohelm ??

My Tophat came with an Autohelm ST2000, which is currently working with no problems. As I usually sail solo, the self-steering system is quite critical. If I can set off for some multi-day cruises, possibly with overnight sailing, I would be in fear of the autohelm failing. I am quite taken by the idea of a vane system, with no power consumption, but this may be over-capitalising the little Tophat. A cheaper alternative would be to carry a spare autohelm (even an ST1000). I probably have just enough house battery and solar to run constantly, but would need to closely monitor same.

The ST2000 is purely working off the fluxgate, with no reference to wind, so needs to be re-set for direction changes.

I have had reasonable success with a lashed-helm system when close-hauled (using small link stainless chain onto the autohelm pin); but when the wind is on the beam or abaft, the Tophat needs much closer attention, especially if the following sea is over 1 m.

So, brains trust: is it worth carrying a spare autohelm? Do any of you solo sailors carry a plan B?

My best mate in Bundaberg has an all stainless and complete Flemming self steerer that he took off his Adams 31 as he now only cruises coastal.

It is in "as new" condition and he will sell it. It has the $600 drum to suit wheel steering or can be used on tiller steering.

If you are interested in it PM me and I will put you in contact with him.

For mine saintpeter, a windvane for a singlehander is great. There is no comparison between the reliability of a purely mechanical windvane and an electronic autohelm.
My current situation is a case in point - during a cruise around Wilsons Prom last week, I forgot to release the brake on the rudder that I had set when we anchored the night before.
The result was, after a few hours operation, the autohelm failed with stripped gears!
This was even more frustrating because I did the same thing a few years ago
I was very glad I had my Monitor windvane - which I prefer to use whenever possible.
By the way, I don't understand why one would not use a windvane when one 'only cruises coastal'
regards,
Allan

If you've got a working autopilot, then all you need to take is a $5 piece of surgical tubing. Believe me, its absolutely true. A fellow started out from Los Angeles to the South Pacific and a few days out his autopilot failed. He used this method for the rest of the crossing with nary a worry. You will find the method described very clearly in the free book on singlehanded sailing here: www.sfbaysss.org/main/resources/ and you will see the video here:

A few points:

There's no doubt windvanes are great and a preferred solution for extended cruising, but they involve a lot of work to mount, plus you probably have to give up your boarding ladder. So to some extent it gets down to time and money. If you only do the occasional multi-day sail and are always less than a day's sail from an anchorage, a tillerpilot will be fine, but for further offshore maybe not. Maybe then carry a spare (borrow a mate's). Worst case you may have to hand-steer for a day which is a pain but doable. The Raymarines have a design flaw that lets them stall out at the end of stroke and after a while they chew up the cogged belts or burn out the motor (ask me how I know.....). This makes them vulnerable in brisker conditions where quite a bit of hard-over rudder may be unavoidable. I have now added end-of-travel limit switches inside mine to prevent this. The Simrads have stall prevention built in and hence don't have this problem. Some windvanes may also not work very well for motoring or downwind sailing, which would be a pain because it's almost impossible to set up a balanced self-steer in those situations. Also, learn how to tune your tillerpilot to get best performance as this will markedly reduce power drain.

The sheet-to-tiller steering may work for some boats some of the time, but does require fairly frequent intervention and won't help you much in variable winds or, as you've found, with bigger waves knocking the nose around. I've never had much luck with it, but I have had my boat sail hands-off for ages on some points of reaching with a bit of stretchy or lashed tiller

As always, the solution depends on your proposed use.

Cheers, Graeme

ON Ciella I have a Fleming windvane, which works outstanding. And a Raymarine tiller pilot for when the wind is too light for the Fleming. On a S&S 34 this works very well. I am about to cross the Tasman (twice) to participate in the 2018 Solo Trans Tasman Yacht Challenge. Pretty sure I am the only competitor with a windvane. All other rely on electric autopilots. The problem with modern boats is that the cord of the keels get so short that there is no course stability and this is what a windvane needs to work properly. The build-in autopilots are pretty reliable nowadays, but you need the power supply. There is nothing I hate more than having to run the engine to top up batteries.

Wongaga said,

A few points:
There's no doubt windvanes are great and a preferred solution for extended cruising, but they involve a lot of work to mount, plus you probably have to give up your boarding ladder.


That's exactly what happened to me last time I went north. In the end stripped it down and stored it away.

But if you plan to take a Top Hat around Aus you will need one. Coastal not really necessary. I had no problem with power as I've got a 100w of solar and 224 amp hours of battery [ok for overnight too]

I tried sheet to tiller over a year or so. Got it to work sort of but in reality, my experience is it is bloody useless. It works on my boat if you monitor it continuously but you can't leave it alone.

Re sheet to tiller systems like I described above. Keep in mind that the OP was only looking for a spare steering system in case his autopilot fails. Also that he is sailing just a few days out, not crossing an ocean. Given that we all face tight budgets and I'd rather spend my money on something that is actually useful, and not just sitting as a spare, a short piece of surgical tubing that will get the job done, not perfectly, but sufficiently, is a preferred choice. I've done extensive testing and I know that they work. Yes, they do require some attention, but they certainly do work as described.

Yep, my Fleming was christened Carly on an earlier circumnavigation on a different S&S34 for the same reason.
To me, when inshore it isn't worth the effort to drop the Fleming rudder into the water, connect the lines to the tiller and orient the vane to the relative wind when I can plug in the Simrad TP32 and hit a button.
When first engaged the TP32 steers continuously until it figures out the boat's motion, then it settles down. It is quite noisy, at nearly 10 years old to be expected, but once it has adjusted its gain to the sea state it isn't an issue.
I use it inshore all the time and use it offshore when motoring due lack of wind. It has an operating load of 85kg and has steered MB in 30kts downwind, no mean feat in an S&S.
It is particularly useful for coastal nav as it steers to waypoints.
I also use it for ocean passages to calculate leeway, current and drift. Lord Howe is say 070 M, engage the TP32 to Lord Howe waypoint and it figures out the heading to make good the track. Disconnect the pilot and engage the vane on that heading. Repeat every 3 or so hours.
Having both is the ideal.

I am guessing that OP means 'Original Poster'.

This has been a great thread. And now I will have to buy a bigger boat, so that I can use a vane !!

And but the way, Foolish, where should I look for 'surgical tubing' (apart from the obvious operating theatre).

"And but the way, Foolish, where should I look for 'surgical tubing' (apart from the obvious operating theatre)."

Any medical supply store will carry it. and most large drug stores as well. It's very cheap. You only need 6' to cross the ocean.

Bungee cord (or shock cord) will also work fine but it is generally accepted that surgical tubing has a more consistent stretch. I've found a huge variance in the quality of shock cord depending on the manufacturer.