With the current restrictions in Vic I can do little more than online research. Even the library is closed.
All things considered, I've come to the conclusion that a TH25 is the boat for me. When I get to look at boats in person that may change.
The plan is, when the restrictions are lifted to go to my local yacht club for a chat and look around. I'd like to meet up with some locals from here for a chat and look at their boats.
Now then, is a TH25 right?
Do I like the way they look? Yes, especially the interior layout. I'd like something comfortable, caravan ish.
Can I get one within my budget? Yes, but its difficult to tell the condition from photos. My wife and I have sat a budget of $10g, not a lot I know. Say up to $8g on a boat and $2g for anything I may need to get her on the water.
Will it suit my needs?
Short term goal is to learn to sail (with help), day sails, evening sails and overnight sails on the bay, building experience.
Then in 6 (?) months short coastal trips building up to trips to Adeliade, Sydney, Tas.
Then in 3 to 5 years, could be longer, a long cruise up past Brisbane and onto the Pacific islands or further north to Indonesia.
From what I can tell a TH will do all that in retaliative safety and comfort.
I'd appreciate some advice, comments tips,
Cheers,
Mike.
Your plan is sound and we'll thought out. John I'llingworth designed the Top Hat to handle conditions like those found along the Australian eastern seaboard. Ian and Jan Mitchell circumnavigated in 1974 while pregnant and with baby.
Top article right there.
Imho a great choice at least for your initial 2 years sailing plan.
The 4 on boatsales now range from $9k to $27k. This one is the $9k...........
www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/1984-top-hat-25-mk-iii/SSE-AD-6569736/?Cr=3
Over the last 50yrs the venerable Tophat has been the perfect boat for exactly what you describe for your first 2 years. For your 3-5 years plan maybe by then you could be looking at something bigger and more comfortable at sea........
All the best with your plan. Would guess that in your $2k contingency for immediate expenditure renewing the standing rigging would probably be a high priority on boats in the $8k range. But obviously it depends on the particular boat............
Mike,
Have a look at www.tophatyachts.com Facebook site Top hat Yachts and my blog at sailblogs.com/member/seaka
Your budget of 10K will get you a good Top Hat. The secrete is getting one with most of the expensive gear already onboard.
Don't be to fussed to much with electronics as probably better to replace all with state of the art. So things like roller furling and near new sails, new outboard motor [but from what you are wanting to do you should have an inboard diesel about 10hp. ]
Mark 1's have more water onboard and are solid fiberglass whereas Mk 2 & 3 have foam or ply core to the decks. [check for softness, especially the forward deck] All marks have the same hull, so no advantages there. The major difference between the marks is that Mk2&3 have lower cabin roofs [each a bit lower] than the Mk 1. Once you get onboard you will see the difference in the cabin floor and how much you have to duck to get into the cabin.
Feel free to PM me for a phone number if you wish to talk.
You are halfway there Mike when you said the "TH25 is the boat for me".
A well maintained Toppie will do everything on your list, it will just be a comfort and stamina/endurance thing on your end. Comfort is great relative to other 25ft'ers, but it's still a small boat, so you'll get bounced around more than a bigger yacht.
They prefer a bit of wind to get them moving and to keep going in any type of ocean chop, which isn't a problem up the East Coast.
Doing the purchase and immediate update of a few items is easily doable on your budget.
Where are you based? Melbourne?
I've a 30' clansman - good boats, but more around the $20k mark.
Anyone see this add? www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/2010-roberts-36/SSE-AD-6299797/?Cr=2 Very little detail, it's either a steal or a nightmare.
Thanks for all the replies, I'ts comforting to hear I'm on the right track and my choice of boat fits my wants and budget.
I forgot to mention my preference is a MK1 .
Great article Phil, thanks.
You could be right "r13" I might be looking for something bigger after a few years, but if I fall for her I'll stick with her.
You mentioned replacing the standing rigging, any idea what that would cost?
TKNick, I'm looking for Jans book, even in e-book it's hard to find at a reasonable price.
nswsailor, I'll have a look thanks.
Thanks for the input Bluemoon.
Yes Seamonkey, I'm a ten minute drive from Frankston yacht club. I'm always cautious when the advert only has a few photos, or no photos of the interior. For me it's a case of "hmmm, what are they not telling me"
Thanks again all, much appreciated,
Mike.
Sounds like you're on the right track mate. When all this corona stuff is over I can't show you my boat.
Some of my deciding factors for a cruising boat for me were:
-Full length keel. I find the protection to the rudder and keel important.
-Motor
-The head.
-Sail wardrobe.
-Hull thickness,quality and condition. A good survey to assess potential osmosis issues.
-Rigging condition and parts. Stainless steel rigging parts can be very expensive.
good luck :)
Obviously top responses above including nswsailor who is clearly the fund of all knowledge on Tophat25s and will guide you through all and everything needed.
For the specific questions to me........as regards new standing rigging costs.............sorry I cannot answer for the TH25 now but when I did a 24ft fractional rig single spreader Farr727 yacht 2007 it was around $800 for new fore stay, main shrouds, diagonals and backstay. This was for the new stays for me to pick up from their works and install back onto the rig and then re-launch it.
This was via Sydney Rigging Specialists at Rozelle who were excellent. So add on cost escalations since then............and you have a masthead rig and larger displacement probably larger diameter stays.......
But the big issue for when I did this was when drilling out the spreader band rivets so as to re-do them and re-bed the stainless spreader band onto the mast...........there was a great hole in the mast under the ss spreader band where the barrier paste between the ss band and the alum mast had broken down due to galvanic corrosion. The hole was big........around 1" diameter in the alum mast wall.........but still just covered by the ss spreader band.
So obviously it was all total chaos when I found this but fortuitously I had a length of Etchells22 mast in the shed for when I built a cut down Etchells rig to fit on a dismasted and hence hull only Santana 22 about 10yrs prior which I bought as salvage..........
So I overlapped the E22 mast 300mm sleeve over the original mast at the spreaders and after sanding it all off and epoxying the two together including appropriate etch primers before the epoxy glue, and numerous monel 3/16" rivets also flush inserted / sealed in the epoxy glue. This mast is still going strong as new.
Anyway I hope that my post as above will alert everyone to check their stainless spreader band to their aluminium mast and that their mast is still in a serviceable condition.
Here you go - inboard diesel "needs servicing", also has outboard. Suggest this is not going to last as "for sale" much longer................
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/top-hat-25-mk-ii/246891
Select to expand quoter13 said..
Here you go - inboard diesel "needs servicing", also has outboard. Suggest this is not going to last as "for sale" much longer................
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/top-hat-25-mk-ii/246891
Thanks, r13,
A nice looking boat, but it's in NSW, which presents the problem of buying interstate. Even more so now, I doubt buying a boat is considered essential shopping :)
That's something I'll have to look into, if I can't find what I want her in Vic. In fact I will need to look into the process of buying a secondhand boat, I would assume it's similar to buying and transferring ownership of a car.
Cheers,
Mike.
Thanks Mike. Yes right now is not a good time to sell or buy anything let alone a boat.
The process of boat buying is sort of similar but in general is a lot more involved than a car unfortunately - it can be a right pain up the rear end - see 2 good articles below which cover new as well as 2nd hand and are probably focused at the larger and more expensive boats than your planned TH.
For sure buying a 2nd hand $10k 25 foot boat is a lot easier than larger and more expensive boats which usually require a slipping and survey for insurance. New Wave Marine are easy to deal with for insurance and shouldn't need a survey for your TH but best to check - there are other insurance companies similar. But be aware that their cover under such circumstances is market value not replacement with new value.
I have done my own survey on numerous purchases including diving over with goggles, which mightily amused the broker............on that particular 24' yacht the howler issue I found was numerous freely dispersed lengths of 0.5m long 50x10mm steel flat bar sections thrown into the bilge under the floorboards to add ballast. When I politely pointed them out to him his bemusement immediately ceased and he got on the blower to the owner for to deliver a reduced rendition of the riot act.....they were gone within the day and I bought the boat. Adding ballast like this can be done correctly - fully encapsulating them all in a good volume of epoxy glue after initially epoxy coating each one to prevent rust - ensuring the epoxy glue adheres to the bilge and hence the added ballast doesn't become a missile at sea. Numerous yachts have come a cropper due to similar practices but we won't go into that here.............
au.boats.com/boat-buyers-guide/buying-a-boat-first-time-buyers-guide/
www.boatsonline.com.au/boat-buyer-guide.html
regards
Select to expand quoter13 said..
Thanks Mike. Yes right now is not a good time to sell or buy anything let alone a boat.
The process of boat buying is sort of similar but in general is a lot more involved than a car unfortunately - it can be a right pain up the rear end - see 2 good articles below which cover new as well as 2nd hand and are probably focused at the larger and more expensive boats than your planned TH.
For sure buying a 2nd hand $10k 25 foot boat is a lot easier than larger and more expensive boats which usually require a slipping and survey for insurance. New Wave Marine are easy to deal with for insurance and shouldn't need a survey for your TH but best to check - there are other insurance companies similar. But be aware that their cover under such circumstances is market value not replacement with new value.
I have done my own survey on numerous purchases including diving over with goggles, which mightily amused the broker............on that particular 24' yacht the howler issue I found was numerous freely dispersed lengths of 0.5m long 50x10mm steel flat bar sections thrown into the bilge under the floorboards to add ballast. When I politely pointed them out to him his bemusement immediately ceased and he got on the blower to the owner for to deliver a reduced rendition of the riot act.....they were gone within the day and I bought the boat. Adding ballast like this can be done correctly - fully encapsulating them all in a good volume of epoxy glue after initially epoxy coating each one to prevent rust - ensuring the epoxy glue adheres to the bilge and hence the added ballast doesn't become a missile at sea. Numerous yachts have come a cropper due to similar practices but we won't go into that here.............
au.boats.com/boat-buyers-guide/buying-a-boat-first-time-buyers-guide/
www.boatsonline.com.au/boat-buyer-guide.html
regards
Thanks for that, there was no mention of the equivalent to a "Road Worthy Certificate" Is there no such thing, no safety certificate or anything?
Cheers.
there was no mention of the equivalent to a "Road Worthy Certificate" Is there no such thing, no safety certificate or anything?
I think no such standardized certificate exists
Interesting idea Mike. But please don't hawk it around.
If it did come in it would just be another paperchase. State vs state and whatever.
gary
Select to expand quoteMike367 said..r13 said..
Thanks Mike. Yes right now is not a good time to sell or buy anything let alone a boat.
The process of boat buying is sort of similar but in general is a lot more involved than a car unfortunately - it can be a right pain up the rear end - see 2 good articles below which cover new as well as 2nd hand and are probably focused at the larger and more expensive boats than your planned TH.
For sure buying a 2nd hand $10k 25 foot boat is a lot easier than larger and more expensive boats which usually require a slipping and survey for insurance. New Wave Marine are easy to deal with for insurance and shouldn't need a survey for your TH but best to check - there are other insurance companies similar. But be aware that their cover under such circumstances is market value not replacement with new value.
I have done my own survey on numerous purchases including diving over with goggles, which mightily amused the broker............on that particular 24' yacht the howler issue I found was numerous freely dispersed lengths of 0.5m long 50x10mm steel flat bar sections thrown into the bilge under the floorboards to add ballast. When I politely pointed them out to him his bemusement immediately ceased and he got on the blower to the owner for to deliver a reduced rendition of the riot act.....they were gone within the day and I bought the boat. Adding ballast like this can be done correctly - fully encapsulating them all in a good volume of epoxy glue after initially epoxy coating each one to prevent rust - ensuring the epoxy glue adheres to the bilge and hence the added ballast doesn't become a missile at sea. Numerous yachts have come a cropper due to similar practices but we won't go into that here.............
au.boats.com/boat-buyers-guide/buying-a-boat-first-time-buyers-guide/
www.boatsonline.com.au/boat-buyer-guide.html
regards
Thanks for that, there was no mention of the equivalent to a "Road Worthy Certificate" Is there no such thing, no safety certificate or anything?
Cheers.
Not really, just a survey and if an insurance company wants to cover your boat based on the survey report.
It couldn't be easier in NSW to transfer ownership, just go into service NSW with the owner signed rego paper and your credit card,
Obviously totally agree re rego paper transfer and your credit card but the question was
"In fact I will need to look into the process of buying a secondhand boat, I would assume it's similar to buying and transferring ownership of a car"
that is, the whole process of buying not just the last about 1% which is the rego transfer.
