What a complete load of bull****.
Have a close look at the mast section and crack at the gooseneck.
Notice anything!
I particularly like the hate mail he received about other SM owners boats loosing value because of his dismasting, very empathetic bunch of owners (accountants?)
Huh? Being dismasted isn't a terrifying event; no sailor worth their salt should be in terror during a dismasting. You need to be controlling your emotions and doing what has to be done (and yes, I've been there, at 3 am in heavy weather). Personally I'd also be deeply concerned about someone who didn't eat or sleep for three days because they were busy setting up a radar, AIS, Starlink and other things that are completely un-necessary and that people have been going without for centuries. Going three days straight without sleep is just silly; your brain will not work properly, you are likely to suffer dangerous microsleeps, your decision making becomes impaired, and you may hallucinate. Those are far more serious problems than lacking Starlink.
He claims that the Amel is deficient because the Amel where his masts came from went aground, lost a pole, stuck that pole into the bottom, and that force of the pole against the bottom of the sea took the mast out. That seems to be extremely odd. Surely no designer could create a proper rig that is strong enough to take the force of something as rare and bizarre as a boat going ashore and driving the pole into the bottom.
It's fair to say that having a whisker pole that is light enough to act as a sacrificial "fuse" is a good idea in some ways, but I'm biased that way.
Yeah pretty sure the track carrying the car with the ring for the inboard end of the pole would be the fuse on my NS. It would simply rip out of the mast if the boat rolled enough to dig the pole in. Wouldn't be using a jockey pole for a headsail would you?
There is quite a sturdy ring riveted directly to the very narrow section mast on my TS so could be a problem there I guess.
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..
Yeah pretty sure the track carrying the car with the ring for the inboard end of the pole would be the fuse on my NS. It would simply rip out of the mast if the boat rolled enough to dig the pole in. Wouldn't be using a jockey pole for a headsail would you?
There is quite a sturdy ring riveted directly to the very narrow section mast on my TS so could be a problem there I guess.
Pretty sure your Northshore has a back on the mast section.
Select to expand quotelydia said..
Pretty sure your Northshore has a back on the mast section.
Ok I'm lost. What has a back got to do with it and don't all mast sections have a back? What do you mean by back?
The rig for poling out headsails on Amel 54's is enormous. The local one has the twin setup. There is more aluminium there than the average 40 footer has in the whole rig!
On my SS34 I have a whisker pole made from the tops of two windsurfer masts. easy to carry one handed and light when it comes to setting. I'm fairly confident it would snap if it had to.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
On my SS34 I have a whisker pole made from the tops of two windsurfer masts. easy to carry one handed and light when it comes to setting. I'm fairly confident it would snap if it had to.
Ok so now it seems that we are talking whisker poles alone to pole out the headsail rather than the spinnaker pole.
I'm thinking people must have very long whisker poles because my understanding is that a whisker pole is only intended to be long enough to protrude a bit beyond the shrouds to increase the angle (mechanical advantage) when it is necessary to pull the spinnaker pole away from a position very close to the forestay. Certainly the whisker poll on my NorthShore is not much longer than that (although there is some adjustment which facilitates easy storage) and nowhere near the J measurement. It is however a hell of a lot less beefy than the spinnaker pole which would assist it to work as a fuse protecting the mast if it were long enough.
If the pole is to be useful for keeping the headsail out I would have thought that it needs to be a lot longer than half beam at the mast. What lengths are we talking about as a percentage of the foot of the relevant headsail or the yachts J measurement?
Good article here;
www.sailmagazine.com/diy/know-how-installing-a-new-whisker-pole
Selden details
support.seldenmast.com/en/products/spinnaker_-_gennaker_hardware/telescopic_-_jockey_poles.html
At this one whisker poles are recommended to be the length of the foot of the longest footed genoa wanted to be poled out.
support.seldenmast.com/files/1390189860/excerpts/595-808-E-146-147.pdf
Other sources suggest 1.25xJ which would work for genoas up to about 130%.
Select to expand quoter13 said..
Good article here;
www.sailmagazine.com/diy/know-how-installing-a-new-whisker-pole
Selden details
support.seldenmast.com/en/products/spinnaker_-_gennaker_hardware/telescopic_-_jockey_poles.html
At this one whisker poles are recommended to be the length of the foot of the longest footed genoa wanted to be poled out.
support.seldenmast.com/files/1390189860/excerpts/595-808-E-146-147.pdf
Other sources suggest 1.25xJ which would work for genoas up to about 130%.
Thank you very much for that. I have been confusing whisker poles with jockey poles and wondering how on earth the jockey pole could be useful. Obviously I'm not used to poling out headsails as opposed to flying spinnakers.
All makes good sense now although something else pretty big to have to carry in addition to the spin pole.
As I am effectively single handed usually (not to mention getting old_er) and have an asymmetric now and as the spinnaker pole is enormous on my NS 38 I really don't use the spin pole anyway so replacing it with a considerably smaller diameter lighter pole might be a good idea.
Not cheap tho and most second hand sellers know the value too.
I reckon Ramona is on the right track. You can get a strong two piece carbon sailboard mast for about $2-300 and then get some ends for it. A mast foot for the mast connected to an end fitting. I kept an eye out for some old ends I just bought. Then you can have a nice two piece pole that can store away well and yet be nice and strong enough for most sub 35ish ft boats. (Although my cat is 38ft so I hope the sailboard mast is strong enough)
The Amel does have a huge cutaway in its aft wall. As Amels use twin poles they may not have the pole fitting hanging off the front of the mast. If it is on the side of the mast then the end fitting may not be able to act as a fuse by being wrenched off the front of the mast. I like Ct249s point. You know the world is crazy when getting Starlink, AIS and radar back on is more important than having a sleep with one of the two crew doing the look around every 15 minutes.
I went to an aluminum tube supplier bought a 6 m length for $40 ,had it cut to size ,bought cheap pole ends from Whitworths.
My whisker pole is two windsurfer top sections bonded together at the fat ends. Hardware from a Flying Dutchman spinnaker pole. It's probably slightly longer than the J measurement and I use the jockey pole rings on the side of the mast and usually no topping lift.
So, the really isn't a danger in polling out a headsail, the original video is a guy with an Amel who lost his rig looking for a smoking gun. The Amel is such an odd duck that what happened to it is not really that applicable to your "normal" sloop rig.
While I have seen people using twin headsails downwind, I have never seen that pole setup, a littl searching turns up a description of it with some photos:
fetchinketch.net/2016/06/26/amel-downwind-sailing-rig/
seems a bit of a cult but then there are lots in the sailing world.
Select to expand quoteBananabender said..
I went to an aluminum tube supplier bought a 6 m length for $40 ,had it cut to size ,bought cheap pole ends from Whitworths.
I've used those cheap nylon pole ends and you have to watch out because they get sloppy and allow the pin to adopt the wrong angle and not lock. Next thing you know it has jumped off the mast.
$40 sounds really cheap. What diameter and wall thickness is that and for what length boat?
Select to expand quoteBananabender said..
I went to an aluminum tube supplier bought a 6 m length for $40 ,had it cut to size ,bought cheap pole ends from Whitworths.
I made mine as well.
It stores on the mast.
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..Bananabender said..
I went to an aluminum tube supplier bought a 6 m length for $40 ,had it cut to size ,bought cheap pole ends from Whitworths.
I've used those cheap nylon pole ends and you have to watch out because they get sloppy and allow the pin to adopt the wrong angle and not lock. Next thing you know it has jumped off the mast.
$40 sounds really cheap. What diameter and wall thickness is that and for what length boat?
I was surprised how cheap aluminium tube is as well. I got it from Vulcan Ullrich . Spinnaker Pole for my Sonata 40mm 1.6mm thick. I also bought a 35 mm length and made up an adjustable mast rest sliding the 35 into the 40 .
Yeah finally watched the video again and now totally see the weakness in those stupid mast sections within in mast furling dictating totally open at the back. No wonder they fail.
I don't really make any passages long enough to justify the effort but two headsails on the front foil and no main must be a very stable way to run dead downwind and it's kind of cool the way they can both be furled at once to reef a bit.
Think I might have to go the next size up from 40 mil tube for my NorthShore if I could be bothered. Still plenty of weight saving to be had between 40 mil and the giant 85 mil spinnaker pole tho. Most of the time I'm keen to try my relatively new asymmetric so try to tack down wind to allow that to work.
