My first post here. Would like to make a start sailing but really prefer something small with a small cabin / Porta loo space etc. on a trailer. Ideally 16 to 20ft - larger is just going to be hard to launch and retrieve on my own.
I'm not really after a project and most local boats are really old or really $$$ (like the Cygnet) or I simply am not seeing them for sale. I really like the English boats - Swallow, Drascombe and the like but anything with small cabin is pricey to import. The open boats - Bayraiders - are really nice with water ballast but I'm hestitant to buy an open boat.
Probably the US Com-pacs are closest to what I'm after but these seem to be rare here. Is there is reason for that perhaps that I am not aware of? Views on these boats would be welcome and if there are any for sale.
Thanks for helping.
Paul at Sailing Kate Louise is connected to the Sydney Raid ( sailing group).
If you check his vids you will see just a really wide range of dinghy/ trailersailers.
The Com Pacs are pretty unique therefore pricey and hard to find.
Gary
Select to expand quotePLanter4 said..
? Cygnet 20 might suit,as modern take of concept,with manageable gaff rig .
Mason
Thanks Mason, I agree and I think Cygnet is better in comparison. But, it is a fair bit more - even used- than I can land a new Sun Cat or Legacy. I'm probably going to sail solo 99% of the time so I don't need a much bigger boat.
I know there are two Cygnets for sale at 85k. I think i can land a new Sun Cat in the 50s. A nicely kept used Swallow BayRaider Explorer will come in high 60s and that cabin is tiny. The new BayCruiser 21 - super nice boat - will cost more than a new Cygnet landed in Australia with currency where it is now.
Select to expand quotegarymalmgren said..
Paul at Sailing Kate Louise is connected to the Sydney Raid ( sailing group).
If you check his vids you will see just a really wide range of dinghy/ trailersailers.
The Com Pacs are pretty unique therefore pricey and hard to find.
Gary
Thank Gary. I've watched all of Paul's videos. There are so few small boats with cabins and many in his group are of course open boats. I see there is a Thornaway 18 for sale now but it needs a lot of work - I'm not looking for a project. There is a nice BayRaider 17 for sale in VIC ... but not sure I want a totally open boat and no place for a portaloo anywhere.
I like Investigators.
This one has a porta poti
www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/674404381424147/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Adf3369b6-af60-4f86-a33f-0de7d9af6f99
At the other end of the scale,had a DeHavilland Rambler - 18ft -with a lid,but no ballast - The original trailer sailer - sold for $3500,a couple of years ago .
Built like Battleship !
Mason
Select to expand quotegarymalmgren said..
I like Investigators.
This one has a porta poti
www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/674404381424147/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Adf3369b6-af60-4f86-a33f-0de7d9af6f99
That's more like it. The other ideas sound like a recipe for massive depreciation.
Resale value could be very important unless you expect your first boat to be your last.
I thought I massively overpaid for my Clubman 8 but it looks like bargain of the century compared to those prices for such small yachts.
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..garymalmgren said..
I like Investigators.
This one has a porta poti
www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/674404381424147/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Adf3369b6-af60-4f86-a33f-0de7d9af6f99
That's more like it. The other ideas sound like a recipe for massive depreciation.
Resale value could be very important unless you expect your first boat to be your last.
I thought I massively overpaid for my Clubman 8 but it looks like bargain of the century compared to those prices for such small yachts.
Julesmoto, yes i agree those are high $ for what they are. They tick a lot of boxes for me and then it comes down to where I feel I'm willing to compromise. I don't mind older but they have to then be nice. Many smaller local boats with a cabin need a lot of work and then you spend lots of $ over-capitalising - will probably still have depreciation as people who buy those want them really cheap and don't mind nasty.
I'll probably pay good money for a really nice Farr 5000 - ticks most of the boxes but they are farr and few between and most are in need of a fair bit of work.
I don't like boats with the main sheet traveller in the middle of the cockpit or with backstayed masts. The Farrs look pretty good .. If I can find a super nice one. I missed the nice Farr 6000 that sold last week here on the Central Coast - it was nice enough for what I'm after and worth the price - was 25k I think. If I can find a nice Sun Cat locally, that'll do the trick.
Dinghy with a Lid - Rambler was a bit rough,but the scale of the thing was not intimidating,and the structure was solid !
Got the money back + held onto good 6hp outboard,which is functional .
Farr 5000 rare,but the right size ,and at this stage one has to find something that has been kept under cover ( carport/garage not a tarp ) for 40/50 years !
Weakest point is centreboard pivot bolt,and to ensure good access .
Also,have good access to storage,so can just hook on and go ! This point killed our trailer sailing ,as carport hard to manoevre out of,and then put a dampener on the day,putting her back in. Tried to find mast up storage,but only option,on Lake Macquarie,was to buy waterfront,and missed that boat !
Storage yard/shed an option,but can cost more than boat is worth !
Now have mini yacht ( in size and value ),on a mooring,10 minutes away,and can be away within half an hour . All good so far,but have yet to confront slipping/antifouling .
All Good Fun !!!
Mason
Select to expand quoteDXJ said..julesmoto said..garymalmgren said..
I like Investigators.
This one has a porta poti
www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/674404381424147/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Adf3369b6-af60-4f86-a33f-0de7d9af6f99
That's more like it. The other ideas sound like a recipe for massive depreciation.
Resale value could be very important unless you expect your first boat to be your last.
I thought I massively overpaid for my Clubman 8 but it looks like bargain of the century compared to those prices for such small yachts.
Julesmoto, yes i agree those are high $ for what they are. They tick a lot of boxes for me and then it comes down to where I feel I'm willing to compromise. I don't mind older but they have to then be nice. Many smaller local boats with a cabin need a lot of work and then you spend lots of $ over-capitalising - will probably still have depreciation as people who buy those want them really cheap and don't mind nasty.
I'll probably pay good money for a really nice Farr 5000 - ticks most of the boxes but they are farr and few between and most are in need of a fair bit of work.
I don't like boats with the main sheet traveller in the middle of the cockpit or with backstayed masts. The Farrs look pretty good .. If I can find a super nice one. I missed the nice Farr 6000 that sold last week here on the Central Coast - it was nice enough for what I'm after and worth the price - was 25k I think. If I can find a nice Sun Cat locally, that'll do the trick.
Boats kept in sheds in good nick do exist. You just have to be patient and be ready to act very quickly. That's how I got my Clubman 8. Helps to join relevant Facebook pages and let it be known you are in the market. Also be prepared to travel Interstate at drop off a hat too. Unfortunately they will be a few misrepresented duds and these may result in a few dead end interstate runs.
Good trailer plus good boat makes it even harder but with a smaller boat like you are after maybe the trailer isn't as important.
Good luck.
Might be too far off the specs you're looking for, but this West Wight Potter 19 has been on the market a while ...
www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/2009-west-wight-potter-p-19-premium/SSE-AD-15495308/?Cr=0
I've spent a lot of time pondering my next trailable boat though overall I am sticking with my keelboat for now. I like the Investigator 563 for its cabin space and ability to sail reasonably well even without the centreboard down, and the Ultimate 18 which seems to be a very seaworthy boat with good ballast - but you'd be lucky to find either in really good condition. For now I have bought a Hartley TS16 for fishing and sailing in protected waters. One thing I love about it is how comfy the wide cockpit is - I put up a bimini and motor out for really relaxed fishing trips. I've camped out in the cabin with my jack russell, but it's very cramped compared to the boats listed above. Another I was eyeing up was the Gem 550, and some of those are in very good condition. None, of course, quite have the aesthetic of the Com-pacs and other boats you list
Farr 5 or preferably 6 is a wise choice. Quite a large interior for their size , well made and reasonably quick for their age AND from the drawing board of one of the worlds top yacht designers. Whats not to like!
For the last 7 years I have regularly day sailed solo a Sonata 6 and love every minute , well almost anyway.
Select to expand quoteDXJ said..PLanter4 said..
? Cygnet 20 might suit,as modern take of concept,with manageable gaff rig .
Mason
Thanks Mason, I agree and I think Cygnet is better in comparison. But, it is a fair bit more - even used- than I can land a new Sun Cat or Legacy. I'm probably going to sail solo 99% of the time so I don't need a much bigger boat.
I know there are two Cygnets for sale at 85k. I think i can land a new Sun Cat in the 50s. A nicely kept used Swallow BayRaider Explorer will come in high 60s and that cabin is tiny. The new BayCruiser 21 - super nice boat - will cost more than a new Cygnet landed in Australia with currency where it is now.
I have a new Cygnet 20. I agree it is expensive, but you could use it as a bench mark for the upper end of the scale. I took it out for its first race yesterday (Sunday) and it kept pace with the bigger keel boats in changeable conditions. Came first on handicap. Incidentally, AFAIK, there is only one used Cygnet on the market (two sources of advertising), and it might already gone.
Sailing Kate Louise is a great channel for the camper-dingy-trailer-sailers. It shows you that you can have a lot of fun on a small boat with a small budget.
Whatever you do, get something in good condition. Especially the trailer. Always look at the trailer first. If the trailer is rubbish or not in roadworthy condition, walk away before even looking at the boat (or budget $5K to $10K and plenty of time for a new trailer).
Select to expand quoteAchernar said..DXJ said..PLanter4 said..
? Cygnet 20 might suit,as modern take of concept,with manageable gaff rig .
Mason
Thanks Mason, I agree and I think Cygnet is better in comparison. But, it is a fair bit more - even used- than I can land a new Sun Cat or Legacy. I'm probably going to sail solo 99% of the time so I don't need a much bigger boat.
I know there are two Cygnets for sale at 85k. I think i can land a new Sun Cat in the 50s. A nicely kept used Swallow BayRaider Explorer will come in high 60s and that cabin is tiny. The new BayCruiser 21 - super nice boat - will cost more than a new Cygnet landed in Australia with currency where it is now.
I have a new Cygnet 20. I agree it is expensive, but you could use it as a bench mark for the upper end of the scale. I took it out for its first race yesterday (Sunday) and it kept pace with the bigger keel boats in changeable conditions. Came first on handicap. Incidentally, AFAIK, there is only one used Cygnet on the market (two sources of advertising), and it might already gone.
Sailing Kate Louise is a great channel for the camper-dingy-trailer-sailers. It shows you that you can have a lot of fun on a small boat with a small budget.
Whatever you do, get something in good condition. Especially the trailer. Always look at the trailer first. If the trailer is rubbish or not in roadworthy condition, walk away before even looking at the boat (or budget $5K to $10K and plenty of time for a new trailer).
I don't disagree with what you are saying except in regard to cost of trailer in regard to what poster is looking at.. You can pick up a new 6m trailer 1500 kg. ATM with 12 months rego for around $3600.
www.stonegateindustries.com.au/product/6300-boat-trailer-with-disc-brakes/?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0vCa3uTmhQMV6IC5BR3-_gMlEAQYAyABEgLjo_D_BwE
Also,particularly in New South Wales,the registration can be tricky.
If under 254kg tare no inspection required ,but ensure it has a compliance plate .
If from interstate,with no compliance plate then walk away ,or if committed truck it home,and get a new trailer !
+ can assure you fibreglass can rot,if under a tree for 30 years,with suckers growing through the centreboard case = landfill
Mason
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..DXJ said..julesmoto said..garymalmgren said..
I like Investigators.
This one has a porta poti
www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/674404381424147/?ref=search&referral_code=null&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Adf3369b6-af60-4f86-a33f-0de7d9af6f99
That's more like it. The other ideas sound like a recipe for massive depreciation.
Resale value could be very important unless you expect your first boat to be your last.
I thought I massively overpaid for my Clubman 8 but it looks like bargain of the century compared to those prices for such small yachts.
Julesmoto, yes i agree those are high $ for what they are. They tick a lot of boxes for me and then it comes down to where I feel I'm willing to compromise. I don't mind older but they have to then be nice. Many smaller local boats with a cabin need a lot of work and then you spend lots of $ over-capitalising - will probably still have depreciation as people who buy those want them really cheap and don't mind nasty.
I'll probably pay good money for a really nice Farr 5000 - ticks most of the boxes but they are farr and few between and most are in need of a fair bit of work.
I don't like boats with the main sheet traveller in the middle of the cockpit or with backstayed masts. The Farrs look pretty good .. If I can find a super nice one. I missed the nice Farr 6000 that sold last week here on the Central Coast - it was nice enough for what I'm after and worth the price - was 25k I think. If I can find a nice Sun Cat locally, that'll do the trick.
Boats kept in sheds in good nick do exist. You just have to be patient and be ready to act very quickly. That's how I got my Clubman 8. Helps to join relevant Facebook pages and let it be known you are in the market. Also be prepared to travel Interstate at drop off a hat too. Unfortunately they will be a few misrepresented duds and these may result in a few dead end interstate runs.
Good trailer plus good boat makes it even harder but with a smaller boat like you are after maybe the trailer isn't as important.
Good luck.
Thanks, that's right - patience and ready to travel!
Select to expand quoteBluewaterBound said..
Might be too far off the specs you're looking for, but this West Wight Potter 19 has been on the market a while ...
www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/2009-west-wight-potter-p-19-premium/SSE-AD-15495308/?Cr=0
I've spent a lot of time pondering my next trailable boat though overall I am sticking with my keelboat for now. I like the Investigator 563 for its cabin space and ability to sail reasonably well even without the centreboard down, and the Ultimate 18 which seems to be a very seaworthy boat with good ballast - but you'd be lucky to find either in really good condition. For now I have bought a Hartley TS16 for fishing and sailing in protected waters. One thing I love about it is how comfy the wide cockpit is - I put up a bimini and motor out for really relaxed fishing trips. I've camped out in the cabin with my jack russell, but it's very cramped compared to the boats listed above. Another I was eyeing up was the Gem 550, and some of those are in very good condition. None, of course, quite have the aesthetic of the Com-pacs and other boats you list
Thanks BluewaterBound - I've been looking at that WWP and it seems in good condition, has good space and from i understand, they sail pretty good. That centre board is pretty ugly inside though and I'm not sure I understood correctly, but heard someone on a US forum comment that you need to raise and lower the board more often then with other similar sized boats.
Select to expand quoteAchernar said..DXJ said..PLanter4 said..
? Cygnet 20 might suit,as modern take of concept,with manageable gaff rig .
Mason
Thanks Mason, I agree and I think Cygnet is better in comparison. But, it is a fair bit more - even used- than I can land a new Sun Cat or Legacy. I'm probably going to sail solo 99% of the time so I don't need a much bigger boat.
I know there are two Cygnets for sale at 85k. I think i can land a new Sun Cat in the 50s. A nicely kept used Swallow BayRaider Explorer will come in high 60s and that cabin is tiny. The new BayCruiser 21 - super nice boat - will cost more than a new Cygnet landed in Australia with currency where it is now.
I have a new Cygnet 20. I agree it is expensive, but you could use it as a bench mark for the upper end of the scale. I took it out for its first race yesterday (Sunday) and it kept pace with the bigger keel boats in changeable conditions. Came first on handicap. Incidentally, AFAIK, there is only one used Cygnet on the market (two sources of advertising), and it might already gone.
Sailing Kate Louise is a great channel for the camper-dingy-trailer-sailers. It shows you that you can have a lot of fun on a small boat with a small budget.
Whatever you do, get something in good condition. Especially the trailer. Always look at the trailer first. If the trailer is rubbish or not in roadworthy condition, walk away before even looking at the boat (or budget $5K to $10K and plenty of time for a new trailer).
Thanks Achernar. Lucky you having such a nice boat. I do really subscribe to the "get something in good condition" principle. I'd rather pay more for a better/newer boat and then enjoy that, rather than getting something cheap and then trying to pretty things up. I just know i will enjoy being on the water more if the boat is nice and vice versa.
Select to expand quotePlanter said..
Also,particularly in New South Wales,the registration can be tricky.
If under 254kg tare no inspection required ,but ensure it has a compliance plate .
If from interstate,with no compliance plate then walk away ,or if committed truck it home,and get a new trailer !
+ can assure you fibreglass can rot,if under a tree for 30 years,with suckers growing through the centreboard case = landfill
Mason
As someone else said, be extra careful if it has a new coat of paint on it!
Select to expand quoteDXJ said..BluewaterBound said..
Might be too far off the specs you're looking for, but this West Wight Potter 19 has been on the market a while ...
www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/2009-west-wight-potter-p-19-premium/SSE-AD-15495308/?Cr=0
I've spent a lot of time pondering my next trailable boat though overall I am sticking with my keelboat for now. I like the Investigator 563 for its cabin space and ability to sail reasonably well even without the centreboard down, and the Ultimate 18 which seems to be a very seaworthy boat with good ballast - but you'd be lucky to find either in really good condition. For now I have bought a Hartley TS16 for fishing and sailing in protected waters. One thing I love about it is how comfy the wide cockpit is - I put up a bimini and motor out for really relaxed fishing trips. I've camped out in the cabin with my jack russell, but it's very cramped compared to the boats listed above. Another I was eyeing up was the Gem 550, and some of those are in very good condition. None, of course, quite have the aesthetic of the Com-pacs and other boats you list
Thanks BluewaterBound - I've been looking at that WWP and it seems in good condition, has good space and from i understand, they sail pretty good. That centre board is pretty ugly inside though and I'm not sure I understood correctly, but heard someone on a US forum comment that you need to raise and lower the board more often then with other similar sized boats.
You would have seen these links...........so > 1600 built...........
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Wight_Potter_19
www.boatsonline.com.au/boat-review/potter/sail-monohulls/west-wight-potter-19/20
The centreboard up draft is 0.24m, and centreboard fully down draft is 1.13m. From your text as copied below.........
That centre board is pretty ugly inside though and I'm not sure I understood correctly, but heard someone on a US forum comment that you need to raise and lower the board more often then with other similar sized boats.
Ok so the photos don't show the centreboard inside or outside but in this type of yacht neither such photos are glamorous. Rope cboard tackle a lot more reliable than hydraulics especially in this size yacht. What is the ugly part of the cboard? I wouldn't base your decision on some US forum throw away line as regards raising or lowering the board - 1.13m draft full down should give good sailing abilities, and 0.24m draft cboard up very easy beaching and getting back onto the trailer.
If that yacht has been on the market for a while the price should be very negotiable. If you plan to own it for a while to use it for the purpose it was designed it could be a pearler. I have nothing to do with the seller.
The Norwalk island sharpies have an interesting way of dealing with the centre board trunk taking up valuable cabin space, it is off set from the centre line and becomes part of the furniture
Select to expand quotewoko said..
The Norwalk island sharpies have an interesting way of dealing with the centre board trunk taking up valuable cabin space, it is off set from the centre line and becomes part of the furniture
I think several Welsford designs have that like the Scamp and the new Long Steps - nice.
Also Princess 18,with dual centreboards,which opened up cabin . Like a mini Hood,based on NS hull .
Nearly had one,but as Jules stated - have to be quick/ready !
Select to expand quoter13 said..DXJ said..BluewaterBound said..
Might be too far off the specs you're looking for, but this West Wight Potter 19 has been on the market a while ...
www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/2009-west-wight-potter-p-19-premium/SSE-AD-15495308/?Cr=0
I've spent a lot of time pondering my next trailable boat though overall I am sticking with my keelboat for now. I like the Investigator 563 for its cabin space and ability to sail reasonably well even without the centreboard down, and the Ultimate 18 which seems to be a very seaworthy boat with good ballast - but you'd be lucky to find either in really good condition. For now I have bought a Hartley TS16 for fishing and sailing in protected waters. One thing I love about it is how comfy the wide cockpit is - I put up a bimini and motor out for really relaxed fishing trips. I've camped out in the cabin with my jack russell, but it's very cramped compared to the boats listed above. Another I was eyeing up was the Gem 550, and some of those are in very good condition. None, of course, quite have the aesthetic of the Com-pacs and other boats you list
Thanks BluewaterBound - I've been looking at that WWP and it seems in good condition, has good space and from i understand, they sail pretty good. That centre board is pretty ugly inside though and I'm not sure I understood correctly, but heard someone on a US forum comment that you need to raise and lower the board more often then with other similar sized boats.
You would have seen these links...........so > 1600 built...........
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Wight_Potter_19
www.boatsonline.com.au/boat-review/potter/sail-monohulls/west-wight-potter-19/20
The centreboard up draft is 0.24m, and centreboard fully down draft is 1.13m. From your text as copied below.........
That centre board is pretty ugly inside though and I'm not sure I understood correctly, but heard someone on a US forum comment that you need to raise and lower the board more often then with other similar sized boats.
Ok so the photos don't show the centreboard inside or outside but in this type of yacht neither such photos are glamorous. Rope cboard tackle a lot more reliable than hydraulics especially in this size yacht. What is the ugly part of the cboard? I wouldn't base your decision on some US forum throw away line as regards raising or lowering the board - 1.13m draft full down should give good sailing abilities, and 0.24m draft cboard up very easy beaching and getting back onto the trailer.
If that yacht has been on the market for a while the price should be very negotiable. If you plan to own it for a while to use it for the purpose it was designed it could be a pearler. I have nothing to do with the seller.
Thanks for your input r13. The "ugly" comes from the amount of cabin space that is taken up by the cboard and the wire/rope all the way up to the cabin roof. My preference would definitely be for a pivoting cboard that has a low internal profile.
Select to expand quoteBananabender said..Achernar said..DXJ said..PLanter4 said..
? Cygnet 20 might suit,as modern take of concept,with manageable gaff rig .
Mason
Thanks Mason, I agree and I think Cygnet is better in comparison. But, it is a fair bit more - even used- than I can land a new Sun Cat or Legacy. I'm probably going to sail solo 99% of the time so I don't need a much bigger boat.
I know there are two Cygnets for sale at 85k. I think i can land a new Sun Cat in the 50s. A nicely kept used Swallow BayRaider Explorer will come in high 60s and that cabin is tiny. The new BayCruiser 21 - super nice boat - will cost more than a new Cygnet landed in Australia with currency where it is now.
I have a new Cygnet 20. I agree it is expensive, but you could use it as a bench mark for the upper end of the scale. I took it out for its first race yesterday (Sunday) and it kept pace with the bigger keel boats in changeable conditions. Came first on handicap. Incidentally, AFAIK, there is only one used Cygnet on the market (two sources of advertising), and it might already gone.
Sailing Kate Louise is a great channel for the camper-dingy-trailer-sailers. It shows you that you can have a lot of fun on a small boat with a small budget.
Whatever you do, get something in good condition. Especially the trailer. Always look at the trailer first. If the trailer is rubbish or not in roadworthy condition, walk away before even looking at the boat (or budget $5K to $10K and plenty of time for a new trailer).
I don't disagree with what you are saying except in regard to cost of trailer in regard to what poster is looking at.. You can pick up a new 6m trailer 1500 kg. ATM with 12 months rego for around $3600.
www.stonegateindustries.com.au/product/6300-boat-trailer-with-disc-brakes/?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0vCa3uTmhQMV6IC5BR3-_gMlEAQYAyABEgLjo_D_BwE
Fair enough, I might have over-estimated. However, these kinds of commercial trailers are aimed at flat-bottomed tinnies, not curvy-bottomed sailing boats (note the cutaway at the back for the motor).
You should also check your weights - trailer-sailers typically weigh more than advertised. See my blog post on my 1100kg Austral 20 here theboattinkerer.blogspot.com/2018/01/weights-and-measures-austral-20-mark-2.html.
Am I doing the sums right? With an ATM of 1500kg and a trailer weight of almost 400kg, you have about 1100kg remaining for the boat.
By comparison, the trailer under my 20ft trailer-sailer (1200kg plus 240kg of water ballast for the boat) has dual axles and substantially more metal than the advertised trailer, plus a grated walkway, retrieving guides etc etc. I'm guessing that the advertised trailer would be good for a dinghy or TS up to about 18ft. Hence the rough budget of $5K to $10K for trailer-sailers in the range of 20ft to 25ft.
I would not be surprised if my estimates are wrong by a fair margin, but I would not like the OP to get a bill-shock on what a suitable trailer might actually cost. When you do the math on a $5K to $10K trailer-sailer, you realize that you are actually buying a trailer that happens to have an almost-free boat parked on top, which is why I suggest you look at the trailer first.
