what are your thoughts on putting a rolling hitch onto the main rode to a storm parachute for another rode to make a Pardey style bridle to make the boat to lay 50 degrees off ??
will the rolling hitch cause chafing on the main rode ? Thanks.
This same question about using a rolling hitch on a pardey bridle was asked on another site. Below is the response.
Interesting and good learnings in the search as to what the question was. Never used one and don't intend to but would expect so - that there would be chafe issues.
Assume the below link J:Chafe Gear Roderaps might answer the question
stormdrogue.com/
Assume you have this book and the other links;
www.scribd.com/document/696898844/Storm-Tactics-Modern-Methods-of-Heaving-To-for-Survival-in-Extreme-Conditions-3rd-Edition-by-Lin-Pardey-Larry-Pardey-Pardey-Lin
www.sailboat-cruising.com/Parachute-Sea-Anchor-Issues.html
www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/docs/dashew-right-rode.pdf
www.practical-sailor.com/product/hurricane-preparedness-guide-vol-4-chafe-protection
Select to expand quoter13 said..
Interesting and good learnings in the search as to what the question was. Never used one and don't intend to but would expect so - that there would be chafe issues.
Assume the below link J:Chafe Gear Roderaps might answer the question
stormdrogue.com/
Assume you have this book and the other links;
www.scribd.com/document/696898844/Storm-Tactics-Modern-Methods-of-Heaving-To-for-Survival-in-Extreme-Conditions-3rd-Edition-by-Lin-Pardey-Larry-Pardey-Pardey-Lin
www.sailboat-cruising.com/Parachute-Sea-Anchor-Issues.html
www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/docs/dashew-right-rode.pdf
www.practical-sailor.com/product/hurricane-preparedness-guide-vol-4-chafe-protection
Thanks for your thoughts, that article by Peter Smith from Steve Dashew is very interesting though the link posted won't open , I have just bought two one hundred metre 14mm Nylon and have always had a roll on board, the last thing I would want is the line to break with the Para anchor out in a storm.
Pardey always used Nylon and never had any trouble.
if you read all the posts you post R 13 your knowledge would be like a computer.
Select to expand quoteMAGNESIUM said..r13 said..
Interesting and good learnings in the search as to what the question was. Never used one and don't intend to but would expect so - that there would be chafe issues.
Assume the below link J:Chafe Gear Roderaps might answer the question
stormdrogue.com/
Assume you have this book and the other links;
www.scribd.com/document/696898844/Storm-Tactics-Modern-Methods-of-Heaving-To-for-Survival-in-Extreme-Conditions-3rd-Edition-by-Lin-Pardey-Larry-Pardey-Pardey-Lin
www.sailboat-cruising.com/Parachute-Sea-Anchor-Issues.html
www.petersmith.net.nz/boat-anchors/docs/dashew-right-rode.pdf
www.practical-sailor.com/product/hurricane-preparedness-guide-vol-4-chafe-protection
Thanks for your thoughts, that article by Peter Smith from Steve Dashew is very interesting though the link posted won't open , I have just bought two one hundred metre 14mm Nylon and have always had a roll on board, the last thing I would want is the line to break with the Para anchor out in a storm.
Pardey always used Nylon and never had any trouble.
if you read all the posts you post R 13 your knowledge would be like a computer.
Thanks Magnesium - most of my posts have been in my head but some like yours here needed investigating on line so I could reasonably answer since no one else had before I started compiling my response - I realise the forum is not a Chase Australia primer with a timer............at my 71 timeline this forum is good to keep the brain grey matter working and I keep learning - of course I have had a few howlers - the most recent the safety lifeline strength post where Lydia rightly gave me a total flogging, and Jethrow most kindly led to the RRS book section.....so I sorted that.....regards Rob
Firstly, I've never been in seas where I was in such danger as to want to use a para anchor.
I have used a large drogue in 40 plus knots, from astern to slow her down. It didn't work so well in the short time we had it out, left unattended with the tiller tied the boat would veer a lot one side to the other.
What I have read is that a yacht with a para anchor from the bow could lie well at 50 degrees or, as many do, at 70 degrees or more.
I much preferred to heave to in the S&S34, which we did quite a few times in up to 50kt plus gusts. Playing with the boom I could have her 50 degrees off the wind with very little strain on anything.
Select to expand quoteMorningBird said..
Firstly, I've never been in seas where I was in such danger as to want to use a para anchor.
I have used a large drogue in 40 plus knots, from astern to slow her down. It didn't work so well in the short time we had it out, left unattended with the tiller tied the boat would veer a lot one side to the other.
What I have read is that a yacht with a para anchor from the bow could lie well at 50 degrees or, as many do, at 70 degrees or more.
I much preferred to heave to in the S&S34, which we did quite a few times in up to 50kt plus gusts. Playing with the boom I could have her 50 degrees off the wind with very little strain on anything.
Yes that is interesting there are many stories of yachts in survival situations where they have hove to and survived Lisa Blair is a excellent example she was in extreme weather.
so if she is in breaking waves when do you go to the huge effort of putting out a parachute?
lee shore ??
Select to expand quoteMAGNESIUM said..MorningBird said..
Firstly, I've never been in seas where I was in such danger as to want to use a para anchor.
I have used a large drogue in 40 plus knots, from astern to slow her down. It didn't work so well in the short time we had it out, left unattended with the tiller tied the boat would veer a lot one side to the other.
What I have read is that a yacht with a para anchor from the bow could lie well at 50 degrees or, as many do, at 70 degrees or more.
I much preferred to heave to in the S&S34, which we did quite a few times in up to 50kt plus gusts. Playing with the boom I could have her 50 degrees off the wind with very little strain on anything.
Yes that is interesting there are many stories of yachts in survival situations where they have hove to and survived Lisa Blair is a excellent example she was in extreme weather.
so if she is in breaking waves when do you go to the huge effort of putting out a parachute?
lee shore ??
When it becomes to dangerous to hove to I guess.
I bought a Jordan Series Drogue rather than a parachute anchor. Based on research, not experience, they seem like a better option.
Select to expand quotecammd said..MAGNESIUM said..MorningBird said..
Firstly, I've never been in seas where I was in such danger as to want to use a para anchor.
I have used a large drogue in 40 plus knots, from astern to slow her down. It didn't work so well in the short time we had it out, left unattended with the tiller tied the boat would veer a lot one side to the other.
What I have read is that a yacht with a para anchor from the bow could lie well at 50 degrees or, as many do, at 70 degrees or more.
I much preferred to heave to in the S&S34, which we did quite a few times in up to 50kt plus gusts. Playing with the boom I could have her 50 degrees off the wind with very little strain on anything.
Yes that is interesting there are many stories of yachts in survival situations where they have hove to and survived Lisa Blair is a excellent example she was in extreme weather.
so if she is in breaking waves when do you go to the huge effort of putting out a parachute?
lee shore ??
When it becomes to dangerous to hove to I guess.
I bought a Jordan Series Drogue rather than a parachute anchor. Based on research, not experience, they seem like a better option.
Two completely different jobs ,
one keeps you moving at 4kts the other stops you dead .
my personal preference in a survival storm is to be stopped .
captain Voss has a fantastic description in his free book on line , Larry Pardey copied many of his suggestions.
For anyone by chance who has not found this fantastic site the link below.
dragdevicedb.com/
Select to expand quoteMAGNESIUM said..cammd said..MAGNESIUM said..MorningBird said..
Firstly, I've never been in seas where I was in such danger as to want to use a para anchor.
I have used a large drogue in 40 plus knots, from astern to slow her down. It didn't work so well in the short time we had it out, left unattended with the tiller tied the boat would veer a lot one side to the other.
What I have read is that a yacht with a para anchor from the bow could lie well at 50 degrees or, as many do, at 70 degrees or more.
I much preferred to heave to in the S&S34, which we did quite a few times in up to 50kt plus gusts. Playing with the boom I could have her 50 degrees off the wind with very little strain on anything.
Yes that is interesting there are many stories of yachts in survival situations where they have hove to and survived Lisa Blair is a excellent example she was in extreme weather.
so if she is in breaking waves when do you go to the huge effort of putting out a parachute?
lee shore ??
When it becomes to dangerous to hove to I guess.
I bought a Jordan Series Drogue rather than a parachute anchor. Based on research, not experience, they seem like a better option.
Two completely different jobs ,
one keeps you moving at 4kts the other stops you dead .
my personal preference in a survival storm is to be stopped .
captain Voss has a fantastic description in his free book on line , Larry Pardey copied many of his suggestions.
For anyone by chance who has not found this fantastic site the link below.
dragdevicedb.com/
All yachts are different. The S&S34 made at most 1.5kts in pretty heavy conditions. If heaved to in moderate conditions just to have a meal it would make less than a knot.
Select to expand quoteMAGNESIUM said..cammd said..MAGNESIUM said..MorningBird said..
Firstly, I've never been in seas where I was in such danger as to want to use a para anchor.
I have used a large drogue in 40 plus knots, from astern to slow her down. It didn't work so well in the short time we had it out, left unattended with the tiller tied the boat would veer a lot one side to the other.
What I have read is that a yacht with a para anchor from the bow could lie well at 50 degrees or, as many do, at 70 degrees or more.
I much preferred to heave to in the S&S34, which we did quite a few times in up to 50kt plus gusts. Playing with the boom I could have her 50 degrees off the wind with very little strain on anything.
Yes that is interesting there are many stories of yachts in survival situations where they have hove to and survived Lisa Blair is a excellent example she was in extreme weather.
so if she is in breaking waves when do you go to the huge effort of putting out a parachute?
lee shore ??
When it becomes to dangerous to hove to I guess.
I bought a Jordan Series Drogue rather than a parachute anchor. Based on research, not experience, they seem like a better option.
Two completely different jobs ,
one keeps you moving at 4kts the other stops you dead .
I think they do the same job, save you and your boat in a storm. It's just different ways they go about it.
I think the parachute anchor requires more skill to deploy and manage, that's why the drogue seems a better choice for me. Anyway we each make our own choices.
Select to expand quotecammd said..MAGNESIUM said..cammd said..MAGNESIUM said..MorningBird said..
Firstly, I've never been in seas where I was in such danger as to want to use a para anchor.
I have used a large drogue in 40 plus knots, from astern to slow her down. It didn't work so well in the short time we had it out, left unattended with the tiller tied the boat would veer a lot one side to the other.
What I have read is that a yacht with a para anchor from the bow could lie well at 50 degrees or, as many do, at 70 degrees or more.
I much preferred to heave to in the S&S34, which we did quite a few times in up to 50kt plus gusts. Playing with the boom I could have her 50 degrees off the wind with very little strain on anything.
Yes that is interesting there are many stories of yachts in survival situations where they have hove to and survived Lisa Blair is a excellent example she was in extreme weather.
so if she is in breaking waves when do you go to the huge effort of putting out a parachute?
lee shore ??
When it becomes to dangerous to hove to I guess.
I bought a Jordan Series Drogue rather than a parachute anchor. Based on research, not experience, they seem like a better option.
Two completely different jobs ,
one keeps you moving at 4kts the other stops you dead .
I think they do the same job, save you and your boat in a storm. It's just different ways they go about it.
I think the parachute anchor requires more skill to deploy and manage, that's why the drogue seems a better choice for me. Anyway we each make our own choices.
I suggest if you need to stop your boat - for example being blown onto a lee shore with no motor (or not enough motor to make headway) and you cant sail to get off, then a sea anchor that stops you is likely a better option than a drogue that doesn't.
If you plan to run before a storm with plenty of sea room and large waves, then a drogue may be the go, though you may stay in the storm for longer to the extent you're travelling with it (all depends where it is and which direction it's travelling relative to you).
If you lose steering/rudder, then a drogue off the back can be used to steer, whereas a properly sized sea anchor wont allow you to make way.
If the job is "save you and your boat in a storm" then add in reefing and heaving to. If you only have a sea anchor, the options using a drogue are not available to you. If you only have a drogue then the option of using a sea anchor is not available to you.
Unless making long passages (several days or weeks) offshore, and provided you're carefully considering the weather when passage planning for a few days at most, chances are you will need neither. But if luck isn't with you, you may regret the lack of whichever you don't have.
Also as an aside, a sea anchor doesn't stop you, if there's a current. Set a sea anchor 20+ miles off the East Coast and you'll likely find yourself drifting south at somewhere between 1 and 4 knots, except where there's a back eddy (generally closer in on some parts of the East Coast), in which case you can find yourself drifting north, at least for a while. Not for the faint hearted if it's carrying you towards isolated rocks or a reef off a shore.
Back to the original question about chafe on the main rode. Why wouldn't you use a block to set up a parley bridle. If you need to adjust the main rode to reposition the sea anchor or just " freshen the nip" the block would seem a better choice and wouldn't a block make it easier to manage the angle you want the boat to sit at to the waves.
Select to expand quotecammd said..
Back to the original question about chafe on the main rode. Why wouldn't you use a block to set up a parley bridle. If you need to adjust the main rode to reposition the sea anchor or just " freshen the nip" the block would seem a better choice and wouldn't a block make it easier to manage the angle you want the boat to sit at to the waves.
Absolutely spot on , but what I wanted to find out in a emergency would a rolling hitch create problems with chafe.
I have read stories of guys who used a bowline on a drogue only to lose it through chafing.
Let's think about a bowline like a spliced eye without a thimble, the wear point is obvious. On the other hand a rolling hitch has multiple turns around the load, so I would guess that the hitch would be less prone to chafe at that point. Then there's a bundle of variations that will contribute to chafe, ie angle of pull.
