Hi folks, I have a small 8.6 m Daydream yacht in Sydney Harbour with an old Sole mini 14 HP engine (rebadged Mitsubishi I think). It never has enough grunt, overheats a lot and keeps giving me problems. I can never bank on it being reliable when I take out the yacht for a sail and longer term I want to sea proof (sail in open ocean) it.
I want a new reliable engine with more grunt, less problems and more reliability. I don't have a large space for the new engine so it needs to be small.
Can you please give me your best recommendation.
Thanks
No more than 10hp, but remember, a new motor will be be worth more than your Daydream and it will still only be worth what it is now.
It may be better and cheaper to remove the Sole and get it reconditioned.
Select to expand quotenswsailor said..
No more than 10hp, but remember, a new motor will be be worth more than your Daydream and it will still only be worth what it is now.
It may be better and cheaper to remove the Sole and get it reconditioned.
+1 to that. New diesel going to set you back $10 to 14k -more than the boat is worth. Any provision for outboard well?
Select to expand quoteReddog64 said..
Hi folks, I have a small 8.6 m Daydream yacht in Sydney Harbour with an old Sole mini 14 HP engine (rebadged Mitsubishi I think). It never has enough grunt, overheats a lot and keeps giving me problems. I can never bank on it being reliable when I take out the yacht for a sail and longer term I want to sea proof (sail in open ocean) it.
I want a new reliable engine with more grunt, less problems and more reliability. I don't have a large space for the new engine so it needs to be small.
Can you please give me your best recommendation.
Thanks
Rebuild the Sole as a last resort. Run an acid wash through the cooling system to clean out the passages in the block {presume this is still raw water cooled}. Dose the fuel with FTC and run it hard for a bit. If it still does not run well enough then rip out the engine and rebuild.
Now, you mentioned;
It never has enough grunt, overheats a lot and keeps giving me problems.
Following Ramona's advice will give you and indication of whether it is an easy fix (due to lack of maintenance) or needs a rebuild due to wear and tear,
Not enough grunt? Is it burning or using oil? (That would indicate internal wear)
Overheating doesn't mean that you need a new engine. It means that you need to find the reason for the overheating and fix it.
What are the other problems?
Is it starting easily? (Hard starting is a real problem)
Does it stall?
Making strange noises?
How does the gear box seem? Remember that if you buy a new engine you will be up for a gearbox too.
If you are turned off by a rebuild,here are some reasons to rebuild the Sole. (yourself)
1, if you do it you will know the engine inside out.
2, The coupling, shaft and propeller are there and are correct
3. 14 hp is plenty for a 8.5 metre boat. (What do you mean not enough grunt? )
Not enough grunt could also mean a dirty hull or fouled prop.
4. Rebuilding will be MUCH cheaper.
5. If you rebuild it will give all of us on SB a new project to follow and advise on. (Maybe not a real big plus)
6. Working on older simpler machinery is actually fun and satisfying.
gary
Select to expand quotenswsailor said..
No more than 10hp, but remember, a new motor will be be worth more than your Daydream and it will still only be worth what it is now.
It may be better and cheaper to remove the Sole and get it reconditioned.
Thanks, think it's already been reconditioned.Problem is mostly with overheating. I have flushed it a few times but creeps up to overheating after about 30 mins on average revs (1500/2000).
Select to expand quoteYara said..nswsailor said..
No more than 10hp, but remember, a new motor will be be worth more than your Daydream and it will still only be worth what it is now.
It may be better and cheaper to remove the Sole and get it reconditioned.
+1 to that. New diesel going to set you back $10 to 14k -more than the boat is worth. Any provision for outboard well?
Yep I don't like the cost factor of a new or near to new engine. Daydream has a canoe stern so hard to mount a small outboard on it. Wonder if it's possible to ring it somehow for an outboard. Will follow that up.
Thanks
Select to expand quoteRamona said..Reddog64 said..
Hi folks, I have a small 8.6 m Daydream yacht in Sydney Harbour with an old Sole mini 14 HP engine (rebadged Mitsubishi I think). It never has enough grunt, overheats a lot and keeps giving me problems. I can never bank on it being reliable when I take out the yacht for a sail and longer term I want to sea proof (sail in open ocean) it.
I want a new reliable engine with more grunt, less problems and more reliability. I don't have a large space for the new engine so it needs to be small.
Can you please give me your best recommendation.
Thanks
Rebuild the Sole as a last resort. Run an acid wash through the cooling system to clean out the passages in the block {presume this is still raw water cooled}. Dose the fuel with FTC and run it hard for a bit. If it still does not run well enough then rip out the engine and rebuild.
Thanks Ramona, have done the acid wash a few times but wonder if it's really getting all the crap out.
What is FTC and what does it do?
Rebuild looking to be far cheaper than new engine so this is what I may have to do.
Cheers
Select to expand quotegarymalmgren said..
Now, you mentioned;
It never has enough grunt, overheats a lot and keeps giving me problems.
Following Ramona's advice will give you and indication of whether it is an easy fix (due to lack of maintenance) or needs a rebuild due to wear and tear,
Not enough grunt? Is it burning or using oil? (That would indicate internal wear)
>>> not to my knowledge.
Overheating doesn't mean that you need a new engine. It means that you need to find the reason for the overheating and fix it
.>>> done 2 x acid flushes and it improved. Maybe I should do it more often.
What are the other problems?
Is it starting easily? (Hard starting is a real problem)
>>> Used to start easy but I wrapped my kayak rope around the propeller about 3 months ago and it's stuffed the motor since then.
Does it stall?
>>>Doesn't start now.
Making strange noises?
>>> No
How does the gear box seem? Remember that if you buy a new engine you will be up for a gearbox too.
If you are turned off by a rebuild,here are some reasons to rebuild the Sole. (yourself)
1, if you do it you will know the engine inside out.
>>> agreed
2, The coupling, shaft and propeller are there and are correct
>>>Yes
3. 14 hp is plenty for a 8.5 metre boat. (What do you mean not enough grunt? )
Not enough grunt could also mean a dirty hull or fouled prop.
>>> Hull and prop are ok, it's the overheating that causes issues as I have to turn off the engine after about 30 mins and can't rely on it over a decent period of time.
4. Rebuilding will be MUCH cheaper.
>>>Ok I like that
5. If you rebuild it will give all of us on SB a new project to follow and advise on. (Maybe not a real big plus)
>>> Ok I think I have a new project for you to follow.
6. Working on older simpler machinery is actually fun and satisfying.
>>>Yes I'm starting to see that. I have enjoyed tinkering and learning about the yacht over the last 2-3 years.
gary
Hi Gary, yacht is in Five Dock, do you know any engine specialist around there I could get advice for a rebuild?
Thank you for your advice.
My boat is in Drummoyne. I could have a look at your engine with you and maybe give you another view on it. Let me know if you are interested.
Select to expand quoteMorningBird said..
My boat is in Drummoyne. I could have a look at your engine with you and maybe give you another view on it. Let me know if you are interested.
Hi Morning Bird, thanks that's a great offer. What's the best day for you to have a look? Sat arvo or anytime Sunday good for me. I can take off a day during the week if needed. The yacht is similar to the boat you took to LHI in 2016 but not in good nic.
Cheers
Apologies if I am into egg-sucking territory, but is the prop clean? Even a little growth will dramatically affect performance. Is the prop the right size? Does the engine rev out (underpropped), or does it max out with smoke somewhere below maximum revs (overpropped or dirty prop)?
Does it start easily? If it does it is most likely to be pretty good inside and the problems are on the outside. Whilst they may be a pain to track down, it will be much cheaper and less grief than a rebuild.
You certainly don't need more than 14hp for your size boat , a bigger engine is not the correct path to go down.
Dunno what your skill level is, but learning everything you can about your engine and drive train is invaluable interms of safety and $$$, and pretty much essential if you're going blue-water. Stories of awful outcomes for people with little older boats like ours, at the hands of diesel mechanics who would much rather work on big new boats, are sadly very common, so learning is your friend. As an example, on the Compass owner's forum at the moment there's a lament by a bloke who was charged $7500 for replacement engine mounts. I did mine for about $600.
Good luck sorting it out! Lots of clever people on here to help
Graeme
Select to expand quoteReddog64 said..Ramona said..
Thanks Ramona, have done the acid wash a few times but wonder if it's really getting all the crap out.
What is FTC and what does it do?
Rebuild looking to be far cheaper than new engine so this is what I may have to do.
Cheers
FTC costeffective.com.au/product/ftc-decarbonizer/
Use the strong dose first then run it in your fuel for a few fills. It's expensive but really works. Mate used it on his Sole and he was impressed.
With the overheating problem check the thermostat is not stuffed and check the passages near it. I left the acid mix in the system sitting for a couple of hours then flushed more through the system. Watch the Barnacle buster youtube videos for hints on the job. I used "Metal Gleam" which is just a phosphoric acid for the job in the normal ratio. I did a test run with different products on sea shells and the acid was far superior. Barnacle Buster is very expensive and I'm sure it's just phosphoric acid sold at marine prices. You will be surprised how little shell build up screws up the cooling system.
+1 for Ramona's comment about shell - I had a small growth inside the nipple on the CW seacock which took weeks to find and drove me nuts. Also remove the CW hoses and either replace, or ensure they are clear.
Did any one mention checking the gauge and electrical connections from the temp sender to the gauge? Basing your "it's overheating after 30 minutes of running" on one gauge could be a premature diagnosis. Check that the readings you're getting are correct before assuming it's overheating.
If the gauge is correct, then it's time to clean the system out and check that flow is getting to all parts of the engine cooling system.
When working on motorcyles and cars, (it's what I do) the first thing to do is check the sender unit or sensor is accurate. If it proves to be accurate, then start looking for problems.
If you MUST change engines then I would recommend a Beta. They are Kubota based and marinised in the UK. I put a 14 hp
in my 28 footer replacing a very muched stuffed 10 hp Bukh, cost of engine was $7000 with the Bukh traded in. I fitted it
myself but used a local mechanic to align it. Performance is outstanding in comparison, But if you go down this road you have
to be prepared for some mucking around getting it to sit properly on the engine bearers. Alignment is everything. I have absolutely
no regrets purchasing the Beta. Think about the advice the forum is giving you before you commit yourself though.
Select to expand quotewongaga said..
Apologies if I am into egg-sucking territory, but is the prop clean? Even a little growth will dramatically affect performance.
>>>Yep clean it pretty regularly.
Is the prop the right size?
>>>Not sure about this and have wondered if that might be part of the issue. Will measure prop and confirm ASAP.
Does the engine rev out (underpropped), or does it max out with smoke somewhere below maximum revs (overpropped or dirty prop)?
>>>Not sure what this means (sorry). I run it on 1600/2000 RPM for approx 20 mins and it starts to heat up and gets to 100 degress celcius and starts smoking (have a heat gauge). That is when I turn it off.
Does it start easily? If it does it is most likely to be pretty good inside and the problems are on the outside.
>>> Starts pretty easy (normally) although a few months ago I wrapped the kayak rope around it and it smoked more than usual when I ran it for 20 minutes after that (especially on right side near starter). Now it won't turn on and need to get a mechanic or local expert to help.
Whilst they may be a pain to track down, it will be much cheaper and less grief than a rebuild.
>>>Yep I'm starting to realise that might be the best option. What I'm lacking is knowledge on marine diesel engines so just need to get some help on it. I actually really enjoy learning about the boat and the engine (bloody addictive, especially on a Saturday arvo with the footy on, few cold beers and no kids/wife around..haha.
You certainly don't need more than 14hp for your size boat , a bigger engine is not the correct path to go down.
>>> Rodger that and it's good to confirm.
Dunno what your skill level is,(>>>low at this point) but learning everything you can about your engine and drive train is invaluable interms of safety and $$$, and pretty much essential if you're going blue-water.
>>> That is my learning goal for 2019, get it blue water ready and also my skill level
Stories of awful outcomes for people with little older boats like ours, at the hands of diesel mechanics who would much rather work on big new boats, are sadly very common, so learning is your friend. As an example, on the Compass owner's forum at the moment there's a lament by a bloke who was charged $7500 for replacement engine mounts. I did mine for about $600.
>>> Yep I don't want that fate and prefer to learn and do it all myself.
Good luck sorting it out! Lots of clever people on here to help>>> Thanks mate and helpful guidance for me.
Graeme
Hi Wongaga, thanks for comments and I have answered in line >>> above.
Cheers
Select to expand quoteRamona said..Reddog64 said..Ramona said..
Thanks Ramona, have done the acid wash a few times but wonder if it's really getting all the crap out.
What is FTC and what does it do?
Rebuild looking to be far cheaper than new engine so this is what I may have to do.
Cheers
FTC costeffective.com.au/product/ftc-decarbonizer/
>>> Thanks for the tip Ramona, will get some and do it ASAP.
Use the strong dose first then run it in your fuel for a few fills. It's expensive but really works. Mate used it on his Sole and he was impressed.
>>> Will do, cheers
With the overheating problem check the thermostat is not stuffed and check the passages near it.
>>>>Will do.
I left the acid mix in the system sitting for a couple of hours then flushed more through the system. Watch the Barnacle buster youtube videos for hints on the job. I used "Metal Gleam" which is just a phosphoric acid for the job in the normal ratio. I did a test run with different products on sea shells and the acid was far superior. Barnacle Buster is very expensive and I'm sure it's just phosphoric acid sold at marine prices. You will be surprised how little shell build up screws up the cooling system.
>>> Ok I will give Barnacle Buster a go and see how it goes. Thanks
Thanks Ramona.
Select to expand quotewongaga said..
+1 for Ramona's comment about shell - I had a small growth inside the nipple on the CW seacock which took weeks to find and drove me nuts. Also remove the CW hoses and either replace, or ensure they are clear.
Thanks Wongaga, will do. Pardon my rookie ignorance but what does CW stand for?
Select to expand quoteMichaelR said..
Did any one mention checking the gauge and electrical connections from the temp sender to the gauge? Basing your "it's overheating after 30 minutes of running" on one gauge could be a premature diagnosis. Check that the readings you're getting are correct before assuming it's overheating.
If the gauge is correct, then it's time to clean the system out and check that flow is getting to all parts of the engine cooling system.
When working on motorcyles and cars, (it's what I do) the first thing to do is check the sender unit or sensor is accurate. If it proves to be accurate, then start looking for problems.
Thanks Michael, put a new gauge on it and still overheating. It smokes after about 20 mins on 1800/2000 rpm so I think it's the water cooler system or some part of it.
Select to expand quotesamsturdy said..
If you MUST change engines then I would recommend a Beta. They are Kubota based and marinised in the UK. I put a 14 hp
in my 28 footer replacing a very muched stuffed 10 hp Bukh, cost of engine was $7000 with the Bukh traded in. I fitted it
myself but used a local mechanic to align it. Performance is outstanding in comparison, But if you go down this road you have
to be prepared for some mucking around getting it to sit properly on the engine bearers. Alignment is everything. I have absolutely
no regrets purchasing the Beta. Think about the advice the forum is giving you before you commit yourself though.
Thanks and noted Sam, getting a new engine is my last resort as it would probably cost more than the yacht and I'm not ready for that yet :)
Cheers 
Select to expand quoteReddog64 said..wongaga said..
+1 for Ramona's comment about shell - I had a small growth inside the nipple on the CW seacock which took weeks to find and drove me nuts. Also remove the CW hoses and either replace, or ensure they are clear.
Thanks Wongaga, will do. Pardon my rookie ignorance but what does CW stand for?
Sorry mate, just showing what a cool dude I am. CW = cooling water.
Select to expand quotewongaga said..Reddog64 said..wongaga said..
+1 for Ramona's comment about shell - I had a small growth inside the nipple on the CW seacock which took weeks to find and drove me nuts. Also remove the CW hoses and either replace, or ensure they are clear.
Thanks Wongaga, will do. Pardon my rookie ignorance but what does CW stand for?
Sorry mate, just showing what a cool dude I am. CW = cooling water.
NWM
in regards to over heating, with mine i drained the water out of motor and filled it with cleaning vinegar and let it soak for a few days, i did that twice and its been running cool ever since. Also remove anode before you do it.
Cleaning vinegar is stronger then normal vinegar. There are more aggressive acids but was told it could damage some seals.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
. I used "Metal Gleam" which is just a phosphoric acid for the job in the normal ratio. I did a test run with different products on sea shells and the acid was far superior. Barnacle Buster is very expensive and I'm sure it's just phosphoric acid sold at marine prices. You will be surprised how little shell build up screws up the cooling system.
Hey Ramona,
Where did you source your Metal Glean from ?
A
Select to expand quoteAndrew68 said..Ramona said..
Hey Ramona,
Where did you source your Metal Glean from ?
A
I buy it from the factory in Nowra
Probably should have suggested to check on the exhaust whether it is blocked. Not familiar with your engine but it will be similar to other marine engines that have the salt water cooling water enter the exhaust. Just below this point there can be a substantial build up that almost closes off the exhaust. Symptoms are overheating and low power. Common problem with Kubota based engine installations where they are not used hard enough.
Either way cure the cooling problem first.
Select to expand quotesamsturdy said..
If you MUST change engines then I would recommend a Beta. They are Kubota based and marinised in the UK. I put a 14 hp
in my 28 footer replacing a very muched stuffed 10 hp Bukh, cost of engine was $7000 with the Bukh traded in. I fitted it
myself but used a local mechanic to align it. Performance is outstanding in comparison, But if you go down this road you have
to be prepared for some mucking around getting it to sit properly on the engine bearers. Alignment is everything. I have absolutely
no regrets purchasing the Beta. Think about the advice the forum is giving you before you commit yourself though.
I also have a beta, no trouble for 1000 hours, with regular servicing.
30ft Cavalier re-engined with a 18hp Witchard Diesel. I have a reciept for $7k from 2002 which is before I owned the boat. I believe it used to be a BUKH as I can see sections missing on the bearers where the big flywheel sat.
Engine hasnt missed a beat.
The owner Johhn is also v helpful. An Ozzie owned and run buisness.
www.wm-diesel.com/
