Another Beneteau Keel Issue

Cut and Paste from Facebook

Sunday and Mondays salvage. After receiving a late call about a 45ft Beneteau sunk in 14m of water 2.5 km off Mandurah we headed to our factory unit to reconfigure the salvage boat. After a very early start we were able to locate the vessel without resorting to a grid search. A diver inspection found the keel loose and barely attached. Initial attempts to raise her were unsuccessful with the loose keel making her very unstable. We decided to get her to the surface and very gently tow her at less than 1 knot to calm water in the Comet bay mooring area. We were running out of daylight so she was secured on a mooring and re-sunk onto sand bottom. After some overnight considerations we again had an early start and elected to bring the hull and keel in separately, lots of airbags were attached to try and give the keel less hull some stability and she was very carefully towed to the lifter. We then went out and recovered the keel getting stuck twice in the channel and having to attach more bags to get the keel shallow enough. Big thanks to the Mandurah boat lifter for doing a double emergency lift.

Yep another Benateau First.
You couldn't give me one. Life is too precious.
At least with other French fall apart boats like Lagoons you are unlikely to actually die.
It amazes me how word doesn't get around. Plenty of Beneteau Firsts and Lagoons for sale for top dollar at the moment.
You would think if nothing else that surveyors would give purchasers a bit of a heads up.

Reading the post, it seems the keel was hanging off from the front like a stubborn tooth that's hanging on by a bit of gum...

Hit something hard in reverse?

I have long thought that washers under the nuts of keel bolts are generally way too small. I have also spent considerable time thinking about the condition of keel bolts. This is all irrelevant however when the bolts are secured to a piss weak hull.

The bolts here weren't the weak link as once again (compared to the gigantic bulb and hence weight) the root of the keel is quite small and only sports 8 bolts as compared for example to my Northshore 38 with a considerably lighter keel that sports 12. The loads on the hull at the front and the rear of the root where the hull first begins to tear away are enormous.
The keel simply ripped the bottom of the boat out due apparently to relatively mild banging on sand.

The pictures are interesting and there seem to be plenty of transverse floors. The floors however a look quite thin and it is not clear whether they were tabbed down or simply glued down to the hull. We all know what happens to French glue so if glued it is not surprising that they added bugger all strength to the bottom of the boat when it mattered and allowed the bottom of the boat to be ripped out by the keel bolts.
Even if they were tabbed one has to wonder about the quality control at Beneteau and whether perhaps they were tabbed down well after the resin in the hull had cured and without any roughing up or sanding.
I guess my worry is what do you do when you are buying a second hand boat. Yes you look at the floors and see if they are tabbed down. Or if there is some kind of matrix how that is affixed to the hull and whether if steel it has deteriorated.
What however is the quality of the tabbing firstly by way of how many layers and secondly by way of whether it has a good bond to the hull? Next I guess how thick is the hull through which the bolts pass? It's highly unlikely that you are going to be allowed to drill holes to find out during a survey.

Fortunately there are likely to be many other clues in the construction of the boat which are a bit more visible including the overall weight. I was for example horrified when lifting the floorboards of recent offerings by Jeanneau at a show.

Also fortunately most here are looking at older boats before tabbing gave way to gluing and French production boats don't seem to be that popular on here. Tabbing however gave way to gluing before 2010 so even relatively older boats need a careful route now. At least with older boats bad reputations and incidents have had time to filter onto the internet so that the cautious can avoid suspect models and makes.

And what's your point? This person is trying to sell their yacht and here you are with pointless scare mongering.

I assume that the best people to calculate risk are actuaries.

Yep. They have a tried and true formula.
One boat in one area has a problem = Raise the premiums for all boats in all areas.

RE; cyclone risk up north.

Works every time.

This topic seems one of those that never leads anywhere and always follows the same pattern:

Those who don't like bolted keel designs will praise fully encapsulated, long keels or whatever their preference is.

Those who don't like a particular brand will state that brand is crap despite examples of that brand taking part on whatever the last ocean race was (S2H, Fastnet, China Sea, etc).

We will read the actuarial argument (valid in my opinion btw).

And the list goes on.

IMHO those accidents tend to highlight one thing: Should modern boats, so dependent on bolting have tamper proof indication of damage to structurally significant components? I think they should, reality is: they won't unless it is legislated / forced by insurers.

What is very risky is the combination of materials of somewhat still fluid degradation / fatigue properties (GRP), an ageing fleet, non mandatory reporting, subjectivity of what level of inspection is needed following a grounding incident.

How you manage the risk is up to each own. Those with money and looking to buy a new yach will either accept the risk and end up with a flashy new French /whatever build or buy something like an Island Packet, Rustler or, even beter, a 42RS or 42CC from Bluewater Cruising Yachts (and support the local industry).

Those who are ok with older boats or cannot afford a new one will have to give up speed or live with the residual risk.

In the end, each on its own. Rather than fear mongering, buyers would be better serviced by less opinion and a bit more concrete suggestions.

Toph, that is an argument based on self interest but not on principle. Someone trying to sell a boat will not want any bad words said against their boat type. It is not in their own self interest for anyone to raise doubts. But it definitely is in the self interest of the buyer to know all about potential issues. In a perfect world a fully informed buyer would buy from a fully informed and seller who fully divulges all known good and bad points about their boat. But to stack the odds for one side or the other is not principled, just looking after ones friends who are selling (on Seabreeze). I find this issue to be similar to one on Facebook where someone is trying to sell some boat gear for close to new price. If an experienced person knows that there is similar brand new gear for sale at a similar price is it not bad manners to keep quiet whilst someone tries to flog their gear at inflated prices? I certainly tell my friends when something is overly inflated or a boat is bad news. When things become public then interests become murky.

From an engineering point of view, the washers under the keel bolts look all wrong. Square ends, no taper, and short. Hull fail line aligns with the end of the washers. Basic engineering design 101.