Yeh wouldn't know, don't use them on land. Although I see a lot of guys on the net in the snow on LEI's now - especially the snow boarders. For buggy work they would be okay as they work on apparent wind and speed.
But on the water, nuh! been there, done that, the hundreds of kiters I see on the west coast can't be wrong (and they weren't). You will rarely, if at all see foils anymore on the water here - think I was the last sucker...
oops probably offended someone again...my opinion, that's all, I might, and 99% of water kiters might be wrong, you never know??
Strapped vs Unstrapped[}:)]
seriously who reads this thread cause they are looking for a lightwind LEI
Ah where's your spirit of banter gone. I remember when foils versus LEI would go on for days on end. ahhh those were the days....
Dude the west coast is sh1t out of wind, we are all going slightly insane.
if ya fly a foil and love em, ya not gonna care one stuff about this banter.
if ya fly a LEI, you prob won't even view it.
If ya flown both, the BS meter hits overdrive and no matter what you try and do, you just gotta say something!! constructive or not!
Crew look for a light wind weapon period, good to see a healthy discussion on options.
Hmmm, So a new kite that youve never tested is inferior based on it is a refined 19m Speed? My 2007 rebel was crap, it rolled on its back and was gutless, all rebels must be crap??? Wrong, the only thing thats crap is the price, yep Ive TRIED the 2011 and if the 2012 is more refined WOW. Eppo, I'd love to swap chicken loops one session.
Do you advise your customers to try before they buy? That's what Marvin is trying to say. Dont make an opinion on baseless history, it discredits your opinion and wont win you friends and potential customers. Anyway keep basing your internet ways on ego rather than soul, but remember pride is a volitile emotion and in the end gets you nowhere
He who has the most fun WINS, where have I seen that before?
Dave you are entitled to your opinion. And if your chicken loop is attached to a foil, of any kind, no thanks - unless of course there is beer afterwards.
A More refined 'speed' hey, ya could be right, but I reckon ya wrong, because the basic aerodynamic physics of foils will never change. You can tweak here and there, but the laws of nature don't.
Hey but I'm always open to giving new kites a crack.
There is some merit in what you are saying, if ya haven't flown it then how do you know? Well between myself and KP there'd be more than 2000 flying hours on foils, so I reckon we have some qualification to feedback to the forum.
But yes, one should try them before one buys - but what about those guys than can't get to a demo? Whose giving them a balanced view? And the foils i have flown were made long after 2007 - mate most kites did what you just said in 07, in retrospect they were all crap, relatively.
Hey stop trying to burst my rebel bubble..he he he
- 2012 is awesome, then again was thinking of trading them in for a set of peter lynn arcs, a pyscho or two, maybe a Spleene....NOT!!!!
Just for the record, I suppose I'm KP's proxy mate at the moment and yes I am a wan^ker, then again i reckon we all are when you boil it all down.
Although just for the record, when not in cyberspace the name people call me is eppo (short for eppen-vanderaa)
This Wan^ker agrees with KP, but I also see the others point of view, - but as the ultimate light wind weapon, mmmm
try before you buy, especially with a foil, in the hands of a good operator they will do, in the less able, enjoy your hours of un-tanglement and for god sake don't break it!!
and before you counter this, re-read my water-time with foils, this opinion is from direct experience, not something I read in this forum or heard from a stoner on the beach.
That's my opinion of course, don't take seriously anything i say, my wife never has...
and please remember I am not attacking you, just ya kite...he he he, but oh how we personify our choice of gear, Funny Sh1t!
You guys can sit in front of your computers all day talking crap ,it's just hit 10 kts so I'm going for a kite"................
I havent tried the X19 Spleene but it looks very similar to my Speed 3 19m and the only thing I can say is I will never ever sell my big foil.
We had the same kind of arguments where I live and there are a lot of Foil Haters but the funny thing is that when the wind is really light they don't even show up no more cause they look like fool and we have a blast.
We had a summer with many many light wind sessions and guess what were the only things flying, jumping and going upwind... yes sir !!! big Foils :-)
Nothing beats a big foil if you really want to have fun in the +- 10 knots conditions. I also have a big Inflato made for LW and race but I use it only if I have to ride in conditions where a bowtie could be really dangerous (deadly;I didnt have one in all summer but it is still a possibility.).
So Guys could give us feedback about the big Spleene; some readers like me are more interested in the kite review than your little war on LEI vs Foils.
thanks
Jules
The following is cut and pasted off Spleene's Website
The brand new X-19 is the PERFECT light wind kite. The slightest breeze will be enough to go upwind with a sufficiently big board.
The X-19 sets new standards in going upwind and also in jumping.
A specially designed depower wing profile makes this possible.
Unlike conventional (ram air) profiles, which are mainly modified paraglider airfoils, our kite designer Ernst Strobl (U-Turn) has gone completely new ways.
When you move the bar of the X19 two things happen in parallel:
The kite's angle of approach (pitch) and its warping are modified synchronously at the same time and over the entire wing-span.
When the interaction between profile and bridle is set up correctly, the effect is stunning!
The kite's wind range is increased drastically and its handling is unique.
And what good is a kite that works in 6 knots but drags the kiter off his/her board at the slightest gust?
The use of specialized depower profiles enabled us to extend the X19's wind range considerably.
The X-19's turning speed is impressive, as well, especially for a kite of this size.
At a jump, you don't need to steer the kite forward directly after lift-off, as usually necessary with such big kites.
At last it's possible to enjoy your flight and forget about the kite until you have reached the final landing phase. Not till then you steer the kite forward to initiate a soft touch down and cruise along with your board without any loss of speed.
Furthermore, we have managed to give the X-19 outstanding stability against stalls at the edge of the wind window to eliminate
unwanted folding of the kite tips.
Thanks to this stability the kiter can concentrate on kiting instead of permanently looking at the kite.
This unique stability is achieved by the PPN-system, which is normally used in U-Turn paragliders only:
Small sticks of unbreakable plastic with a diameter of just 2mm are incorporated into the front edge of the profile. These profile clips support the kite's airfoil and improve its aerodynamics, especially at the edge of the wind window.
We also set great store by the kite's weight and we managed to build an extremely light kite. The X-19 only weighs 3050 grams incl. bridle.
We have only used material of the highest quality and highly effective reinforcements are applied to the most stressed parts of the kite.
The X-19 is built stronger to last longer!!!
That's why you will have fun with this kite for a very long time.
The X-19 can be flown with the X-bar, just like the SP-X.
The bar is only 52cm (approx. 20 inches) wide and provides very direct kite control.
Feel the power and the ease of the Spleene X-19!
Notice: Safety Release only with 5th line!
Steve, i have to pull you up again!
MANY HAVE POINTED OUT HERE BEFORE- THIS IS NOT A FOIL VS LEI THREAD!
If you try to make a comparison between a 15m C-Kite and a 19m Foil then you will loose by far in +-10knts!
The demonstration at this years Nationals clearly showed the huge performance difference between big LEI and Foil under 10knts!
I do fully agree with you that the board is another important factor in light wind kiting and the Twintips are actually much easier to handle than a raceboard in marginal conditions. However, if the kite doesnt fly forward than that will not make a difference.
In general i bet that a big majority out there has not even flown one of the new big foils (Spleene or Flysrufer)!
Until i started trying big foils i had a similar attitude like you. Then i tried the X19 and started getting good rides in when my big inflatables struggled to stay in the air.
The proof of the pudding is in the eating ..
You said that the X19 is designed on the based on FS Speed3. This is bofunk!
Since you love expert/inside knowledge i have some info on ERNST STROBL who has designed the X19 and all other Spleene kites- reason why the fly so good.
Ernst Strobl
Ernst Strobl, born 1965 in Munich, is among the pathfinders of paragliding in Germany. As European- and Vice World Champion, Ernst “the sailplane” is one of the most successful pilots in Germanys history. From 1989 to 1995 he served as professional pilot and Head of Development of UP Europe. From 92/93 he worked as DHV-testpilot, being in charge of conducting the so-called “Gütesiegelprüfungen” (Certifications). 1989 – 1995 Strobl was member of Team Germany and from 1996 to 2002 professional pilot and Head of Development of AiREA.
Strobl ranks beyond controversy among the best paraglider developers in the world. As a self-educated person, he works with more enthusiasm than anybody else. People say about Strobl, he is able to see air-current. Other people are programming ingenious computer software or composing touching music, Strobl delivers world-class gliders and kites featuring this “magic touch” for those who appreciate the difference. “Often only little things make big differences” Strobl knows. For this reason he works absolutely meticulous. “Gliders and kites are based on identical physical premises, but there are of course differences in development. I always bring new know-how from one segment immediately to the other.”
Intuition and utilisation of the latest design-software lead Strobl often to innovations such as the AFS-system. The abbrevation stands for “Automatic Flight Stabilisation”, which means a great loop forward in safety and convenience. Laborious simulation programms and CAD-software, partly written for U-Turn use only, guarantee that U-Turn always delivers gliders at the cutting egde of technology.
