What are the main differences between a free style kite and a wave kite?
All I know is that wave kites are not too eager to race towards the edge of the wind window and prefer to sit in the power zone giving the rider more stability and control. Or shall I say, the kite "hangs there" waiting for further commands from the rider. Am I right?
Whereas free style kites tend to love getting back to zenith or the edge of the window to give riders more boost and ability to do tricks without caring where the kite is at. Or is it the other way around?
Thanks
wave kites are typically lower aspect. short and fat. They turn fast, have good depower at the bar, relaunch like a rocket and drift downwind easily.
They don't go upwind as well nor to they boost as well as other kites.
Select to expand quotePlummet said...
wave kites are typically lower aspect. short and fat. They turn fast, have good depower at the bar, relaunch like a rocket and drift downwind easily.
They don't go upwind as well nor to they boost as well as other kites.
Sorry, my experience differs a lot.
They go upwind really well, if they don't they are pretty useless kites and particularly useless as wave kites as well as not much fun to ride. Because they go upwind really well, they have good lift and actually will boost really well too, and I'm speaking mainly of the Cab Drifter and Ozone Reo both of which I know quite well, and in my opinion the Reo is better than the Drifter (but they are both good wave kites), also because it has a shorter depower stroke, lighter one handed steering, and better drift in onshore conditions.
Select to expand quoteKitepower Australia said...Plummet said...
wave kites are typically lower aspect. short and fat. They turn fast, have good depower at the bar, relaunch like a rocket and drift downwind easily.
They don't go upwind as well nor to they boost as well as other kites.
Sorry, my experience differs a lot.
They go upwind really well, if they don't they are pretty useless kites and particularly useless as wave kites as well as not much fun to ride. Because they go upwind really well, they have good lift and actually will boost really well too, and I'm speaking mainly of the Cab Drifter and Ozone Reo both of which I know quite well, and in my opinion the Reo is better than the Drifter (but they are both good wave kites), also because it has a shorter depower stroke, lighter one handed steering, and better drift in onshore conditions.
AS kitepower said, My 2014 Reo go up wind as much as other kite i have kited with and also can boost and drift ???
I agree with what Plummet pointed out: Faster turning, relaunch like a rocket (rips you out of the water) and good drift when you go downwind. Ozone REO rider here.
Much depends on where your kitesurf: ocean waves (big waves average) or North Sea waves (small waves with average wind - big aggressive waves with gusting 9Bft 45knots).
What works and is great in one situation might not work in another environment.
Additionally there are tow types of wave riders:
- The wave shredders: those who ride up and down the waves under high power (typically North Rebel).
- The wave riders: those who use the kite to get onto a wave and then ride the wave more or less like a wave surfer with hardly any power from the kite (slack lines) (typical RRD Religion)
Riding an ocean wave (predictable wave face and wave pattern, a lot of time between 2 waves: 13-16 seconds and rather constant wind) is rather different from riding a North Sea wave (unpredictable wave face and wave pattern, short time interval between waves 4 to 7 secs (max !) and heavy gusty wind).
Surfing on the North Sea: I prefer compact kites (even delta's) that turn on their wingtip for escaping in a blitz and relaunch as fast as possible (only got 4-6 secs between waves and after 3 waves the lines and kite will become a mess).
Select to expand quoteLoftywinds said...
So it sounds like there is minuscule difference, if any at all.
Well it does matter when you are in big waves. Particularly if you want to surf a wave like a surfer and not a kiter. Then you want to shut the power off and let the kite just drift while you slam up and down the wave face.
If the power doesn't shut off that easily or the kite doesn't drift that easily it is very hard if not impossible to surf a wave like that.
If you want to ride a wave like a kiter and use the power of a kite on the wave then it is less important to have a dedicated wave kite. Because your always using the kite to power you. But if it powers up too much then it can pull you off the wave face. Also if your running down the line the kite that can drift better, turn faster is the easier kite to fly downwind.
Yesterday I was riding a point break. There was 5 10m reo's and I was on my 10 c4. The break wrapped around a point and the deeper in you went the more downwind the run and the more flukey the wind. It got to a point on the C4 when I had to loop the kite continuously to keep line tension and stop the kite falling out of the sky. The guys on the Reo's could simply drift their kites in the same spot.
9m or less in size, drift, upwind ability, quick relaunch and lightweight in construction - in that order
End of story
Re original question - a freestyle kite is a C-kite, or C-ish kite. Freestyle refers to the competition discipline, in which all the top riders use C-kites, the only notable exceptions being Youri Zoon when he was on RPMs and Patrick Blanc when he was on Catalysts. Freestyle involves powered unhooked tricks and for these you can't beat a C, partly because it sits deeper in the window, which also means it won't have the upwind efficiency of a kite with a flatter arc. Freestyle becomes wakestyle when the riders are in boots and the emphasis is on kite-low tricks. C-kites also the choice for wakestyle, though I'm wuss who's never ridden boots.
Wave kites have been described above well enough eh, just thought it was odd nobody had mentioned that freestyle is pretty specific. Freeride on the other hand means anything you want it to...
I own a 2011 north vegas and a 2013 ozone reo both in the 10m .The vegas has 5 struts with battons along the trailing edge for stability when your in the air and upside down .The reo has 3 struts and has a lot thinner material and the kite weighs a hell of a lot lighter.The fact that the reo is so light helps it sit there when the lines go slack and the rider is being powered by the wave.The fatter canopy dimension also creates more drag than the higher aspect of the vegas.That drag helps it sit back in the window instead of driving forward and up alowing the rider to improve his angle of attack up the wave.
The vegas will not give you that freedom on the wave.The vegas need to be looped to stop it from back stalling on the wave where as the reo sits there nicely.
Relaunching on the reo is so easy because of its open flatter shape with nicely rounded leading edge.The c shaped freestyle kite is a nightmare to relaunch in wave zones.
The vegas is by far more superior in the air for boosting big with way more stability due to its 5 struts and batons.I would not say that it hunts the the edge of the window when doing tricks as it does seem to go deeper into the window and I always know where it is.The vegas does point higher when free riding.
I have tried the the airush wave ,the cabrinha drifter and bought the reo.
None of them boost as anywhere near as good as my much older vegas.
So what makes a good wave kite .
1.Low aspect ratio
2. 3 struts
3.light kite with not much reinforcement
4.A nice rounded leading edge.
5.Instant depower.
My personal thing is is fast turning because you can get your kite where you want it quick and if you want it to sit there and do nothing and drift .Just depower it.
Also a quick kite can be looped with ease for instant power.
10m ??? That's big power !
We kitesurf in waves with 7 and 5m kites on the North Sea (even 4m kites) on strapless wave boards.
Select to expand quoteJohn4F said...
10m ??? That's big power !
We kitesurf in waves with 7 and 5m kites on the North Sea (even 4m kites) on strapless wave boards.
That is a fairly standard kite for most Aussies, starts around 13-15 knots
Not many people here would have anything smaller than a 7m.
I think its a lot colder and air is denser In The North Sea Brrrrr.
I like to boost too so thats why I like my 10 m over using 5 and 7m.I can handle the reo and vegas 10 m easily for riding waves at 25 knots and at 30 knots it becomes more of a boost sesh..I would say in perth I would use a 7 m only a few times per year.Its not worth it for me to get one as I like to be powered when I ride.I have a 4 board quiver too.
In the north sea I would use a 4 m though.In karratha WA before a cyclone I would use a 2 m kite or a strong rain coat.
I reckon just find a kite that your comfortable with and feel confident with in the surf.You may be into boosting of waves ,park and ride or throwing the kite around,as long as you feel that if the s@(t hits the fan you will be right then have fun.
Select to expand quotediamond2001 said...
I own a 2011 north vegas and a 2013 ozone reo both in the 10m .The vegas has 5 struts with battons along the trailing edge for stability when your in the air and upside down .The reo has 3 struts and has a lot thinner material and the kite weighs a hell of a lot lighter.The fact that the reo is so light helps it sit there when the lines go slack and the rider is being powered by the wave.The fatter canopy dimension also creates more drag than the higher aspect of the vegas.That drag helps it sit back in the window instead of driving forward and up alowing the rider to improve his angle of attack up the wave.
The vegas will not give you that freedom on the wave.The vegas need to be looped to stop it from back stalling on the wave where as the reo sits there nicely.
Relaunching on the reo is so easy because of its open flatter shape with nicely rounded leading edge.The c shaped freestyle kite is a nightmare to relaunch in wave zones.
The vegas is by far more superior in the air for boosting big with way more stability due to its 5 struts and batons.I would not say that it hunts the the edge of the window when doing tricks as it does seem to go deeper into the window and I always know where it is.The vegas does point higher when free riding.
I have tried the the airush wave ,the cabrinha drifter and bought the reo.
None of them boost as anywhere near as good as my much older vegas.
So what makes a good wave kite .
1.Low aspect ratio
2. 3 struts
3.light kite with not much reinforcement
4.A nice rounded leading edge.
5.Instant depower.
My personal thing is is fast turning because you can get your kite where you want it quick and if you want it to sit there and do nothing and drift .Just depower it.
Also a quick kite can be looped with ease for instant power.
Hey thanks for that review. You have some good points. In terms of the Reo 'sitting in the power zone', Flysurfer kites do the same thing. But the problem with a foil kite in waves is having waves smashing it creating a dangerous situation i imagine. Hmmm forget that. Yep stick with dedicated waves kites for wave riding. Again thanks.
But having said that, if the lines go slack as you ride a wave, the kite had better go with you in some way to recreate tension quick I imagine.
YeaH NAH!
Foil kites are not the business in the waves. They are typically slower size for size and don't like being slack lined!... or you end up with a crumpled piece of fabric falling from the sky.
Can you fly a foil in waves? yes you can. Make sure the kite doesn't slackline and you will be fine. Cutback on the wave when loosing line tension, loop it need be. Ultimately its more of a riding in waves experience rather than a wave riding experience.
Indeed wave kites for wave riding are the best. Unless you want to freeride and wave ride at the same time then finding a kite thats ok at both or better at your most prefered fun is the way to go.
Or do what i have done. Have higher aspect bigger boosting kites for lighter winds (waves are usually small in light winds) then get progressively better kites at wave riding until your smallest kite is a dedicated wave kite. (high winds usually = big swell).
Re flying characteristics for wave kites; everyone needs to match their style, but........There are a few beach tests you can do on your kite to see how it stacks up for wave riding. Fly the kite to zenith (12) and give the fronts a tug; it shouldn't nose over. There were a some kites a few years ago that were prone to this. Do the same without any back line pressure, and you will see how it recovers from slack lines. On the beach look at the wave riding direction and fly you kite to 10 or 2 depending in that direction; let bar out with kite just slightly facing to sky and see how fast you can jog/run down the beach as kite drifts. You will need clean wind, and it depends on strength and direction how successful you are, but it will give you an idea of the drifting capabilities. i like kites with low bar pressure, as I ride 1 handed virtually the whole time with just fingers around centre of bar. I don't like kites that are slow to turn and loose steering when depowered. I would rather be on a small kite and never have to put anything up over 10m at my weight for 12kn and above. The kite should have the ability to let you surf in the critical section of the wave (pocket) and not drag you down the face. You should be able to pull a bit of slack, as well as generate some speed/power for pulling round sections and can get a boost for a punt every now and then as well. I prefer 4 line kites, front line safety, low y for self launch, landing. Should be able to handle a dunking, and most importantly should instill confidence in your riding. If your aprehensive about something with your kite, get rid of it. There are plenty of good ones out there. 
@pearl: so true - good tests of a kite wave-ability
Some 'A' brand manufacturers still don't have such kites as they still promote wave shredding instead of wave surfing and riding the wave. In my view these 'A' brand still don't get it. ('A' brand: high price, lots of marketing, sometimes medium construction: for example see how the struts are stitched to the canopy with or without re-inforcement strips).
