I am curious about the shapes of some of these wave kites being released for 2014 and what affect they have on performance and choice in riding style.
The differences are sometimes enormous (and some more subtle) and although they might be visually noticeable to me, I am unsure about how they change riding characteristics.
On one hand we have the Reo and RRD Religion:
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They appear to be the most "open" in design.
Then half way towards being more typical "C", there is the Airush Wave:
All the way towards being the most "C" in shape are the upcoming North Dice:
Firstly a question about general shape. The reviews done on the Reo/Airush yield more similar results in power delivery than the RRD compared to the Reo, despite the Reo being more similar shaped to the RRD. Reviews of the RRD say that it generates far more power through turns than the Reo and Airush. Why is this? Is power through turns more to do with a different build characteristic?
Next a question about the pulleys. The Reo seems to be the only one in the lineup without pulleys. I understand that this is supposed to offer a more direct feel with the kite. But one of the major strengths that reviewers have noted with the RRD is that it offers excellent direct feel, despite having pulleys. Another contradiction with the pulley issue lies in the speed and responsiveness that people have noticed in the Airush Wave. 6 pulleys (?), yet it was noted to be the most responsive and fast kite in the lineup in reviews.
If it's true that RRD and Airush have found a way to overcome these once despised pulley characteristics, does this then simplify the argument of pulleys vs no pulleys to a question of "Absorbtion of gusts and better depower" vs "No failure points" respectively?
When surfing down the line, strapless, what would be a more desirable characteristic in a wave kite - absorbing gusts and smoothing out a ride with pulleys, or having no complicated pulleys on a bridle to f**k up your kite when you eat sh#t?
As for the North Dice, to me it just looks like a C kite with slightly different wing tips. How is this going to compare to the other kites when it is released?
No replies yet zarb, thought this was a very interesting post but I'm not a wave rider per say and wave kites on a SB (well sometimes for kicks and giggle)...but I'm waiting for some who are. I will say there is a difference between direct feel through the bar as you are riding and steering the kite. I know having been on the VX for a season(and had a number of hours on the wave) feels direct enough but you can't get away from a little spongy delay / feel when ya turn.
Not much help but hey that's all I got. Lol.
Ps all those kites apart from the dice and the neo (and it is obvious this too is an accomplished wave kite) I've been on, and they all kick serious ass! Depends on ya style.
Think bridalling must be a HUGE FACTOR. (Something I learnt only recently, shucks)
I rode the 2013 9m Wave back to back with my 2012 10m REO (kites were almost same size when laid over each other), I found the Wave was more responsive/faster turning and just as direct - didn't notice any sponginess, despite the pulleys.
Both great wave kites, one has no pulleys the other has 6 - some of the pulleys on the Wave are there so it can roll onto its back when flagged to both front lines.
Have a look here, we are having a discussion on the topic
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/Review/2014-North-Dice/
I found this little info pic on the Airush website about their pulleys. Marketing hype?
If your wing design and bridalling is correct for its intended purpose then you don't need pulleys.
Or if you are using pulleys then the wing design and bridal config needs to change.
Either / or it depends. Airush make awesome kites, but so do ozone. So yes I think that is bull**** for sure. And if it is true then you need to learn how to use a kite properly and not rely just on a depowering kite....plus depowered kites fly like crap.
Come one you technical kite dudes where are you, this is a decent topic I thought.
Zarb chuck this on the Kiteforum mate, got some real techno heads on that site.
Chucked on Kiteforum. Let's see if it starts a discussion. There seems to be some amazing choices in wave kites coming up. It's no longer a simple case of going straight to Ozone REOs 
Hi Zarb,
Wave kites are a little different to some other areas of kiteboarding in that the designer will try to build a kite in the form of what makes sense to them in terms of what they want in a wave kite. Rider input is also sought but some of this depends on the testing conditions and more.
Kites like the BWS Noise work best in side to side off conditions. RRD, North and Ozone tend to do much better in the cross-on as well as cross off.
Kite feel is very personal as everyone rides in different conditions so any review is going to be subjective and bias to the riders personal style and body weight.
Some kites like Ozone tend to work better for lighter riders on surfboards whereas North have much more power per given size and so suit heavier riders or twin tip riders.
Most agree that the best wave kites are the ones that deliver the smoothest uninterrupted power, so in this writers opinion open span kites tend to be too on/off with their power as the kites pivot turn and stall in the turn thus disrupting power during a bottom or top turn then "spiking" the power as the kite re-accelerates across the wind window.
The more vertical larger wingtips force the kites into radius turns which give very consistent power making it easier for the rider to anticipate board trim and body balance during maneuvers on the wave. This equates to a more smooth and less jerky method of riding a wave.
The problem is that a kites shape can only offer you about 1/4 of the characteristics of the kite. Wing tip shape, span, pulleys and bridles, canopy profile, and aspect ration all have significant bearings on the "feel" and performance of a kite.
When riding in cross off conditions a less responsive kite with good depower is more important than a ballistically fast kite with excellent drift capability. Drag and power have a huge impact on the demands of a rider on his or her kite. Assuming we are talking about 20 knot winds, a heavier (100kg) rider on a twin tip will not get enough power out of a Reo 10m, compared to a 100 kilo rider on a twin tip on a North kite. This situation is reversed when a light rider is using Norths in strong winds, they simply have too much power when a Reo will be much easier to deal with.
There is no such thing as the one single kite being perfect for everyone in all conditions. All wave riders should remove their blinkers and shut out the opinions of others and should independently evaluate the kites for themselves with a demo in the conditions they will most likely be riding in. If a rider can objectively try several different kites, they will find one works better than the other for them. I am not dissing and brand or model here, there is a kite that is perfect for every rider but you won't find out what is perfect for you unless you try for yourself. "Don't believe the hype" - Public Enemy.
There are lots of great kites on the market, and some not so great. Enjoy the search for what works for you.
DM
Excellent round-up & great explanation of some of the tech differences there Darren.
The statement "There is no such thing as the one single kite being perfect for everyone in all conditions" is it in a nutshell.
(not taking away from any of the explanation of what works, where & why).
Fact is kite cos can, and do, put out any style of kite as their own option of what they consider best as a "Wave Kite".
But it all comes back to kiters preference, riding style & conditions.
What one kiter considers the 'best' wave kite on the market will be another kiters 'worst possible' option.
One of the basic characteristics in this choice is the speed of the kite. For some the faster the better will be the goal - for others a slower kite requiring less rider attention will be the Go-To option.
From the range of discussions you have in a shop - with all sorts of kiters - my summary is this:
Those guys who use their kite pretty much constantly - powering their ride, positioning & repositioning on the wave etc tend to lock into those models which are designed around fast turning speed.
Those who are more of your 'paddle-in' style purist "surfers" who are more into using the kite to get onto the wave but then want the park & ride experience of just you, your board & the wave then the more stable, slower turning 'set & forget' type of kite is where they find what is right for them.
A BIG generalisation here but it may help you consider which range of kites to consider if you consider first where you fit in this picture.
Two absolute essentials of kites claiming to fit into the "Wave Kite" class are:
1) constant power - not necessarily lots of or little of but consistent &
2) stability - especially from backstalling generally but also having the ability to recover from slack lines.
Any kite that doesnt rate on these 2 scores doesnt rate as a "Wave Kite" - imho.
The BEST option is to have one of everything & know what you want every different day 
Told Zarb, darren would be worth listening to.
Ta mate always a pleasure tapping into your experience buddy.
Given the criteria puppet put up, I'd say for me personally something like the religion is more suited. Constant power, quick turning, fly and follow sort of kite. More powered style.
Some local guys rip on reos, rip on RRD religions (one in particular is just an insane powered madman), rip on Wainmans (not exclusively a wave kite per say but this is its forte), rip on envys....not many norths in these parts which is weird cause they are every where else! Lol. Haven't seen a local Airush wave kite yet, maybe this year. Hope so love to get a sneaky peak.
The latest BWS ( which I saw first hand the other day) is a much more fly and follow type kite for cross, cross on, so the local riders may go for them more than the older ones suited to cross off. This may be more popular this year, much better construction, real nice design hey.
Each to their own in the end. Man had a blast today in the swell, how good was it! 
hard to choose the right kite size...lol
So does a quick turning kite then automatically disqualify it from also being a park and ride kite?
What about so many of those companies that claim to provide a fast turning kite when sheeted in, yet a perfectly behaved drifter while sheeted out? That so called "on/off" power delivery.
Select to expand quotezarb said..
So does a quick turning kite then automatically disqualify it from also being a park and ride kite?
What about so many of those companies that claim to provide a fast turning kite when sheeted in, yet a perfectly behaved drifter while sheeted out? That so called "on/off" power delivery.
I cant attest to the experiencing all the wave kites as I've only tried one and that's my little. 6m reo.
But yes you can let the bar out and drift it or work it.
personally I love to work it. looping it, wang it.
But I am not a true wave rider so all my babble is worthless.
Hey zarb,
A lot of this stuff is all waffle in any case. The differences between the kites is easily overcome by personal technique, skill level and riding style. Kites like the Reo are fast and quite sensitive to bar input, in other words they turn with little pressure and can turn fast. You will adapt to any kite, even polar opposites in a matter of about two weeks providing the kites are on an even par.
The North Dice turns fast but takes more effort to make it turn, so less inadvertent control errors than say on a Reo, but if you learn to fly the Reo, you adapt and learn not to make inadvertent mistakes or if you do you, counter them with quick turns and micro bar input adjustments. A few of the kites currently available have really turned it up and are difficult to judge apart on performance alone. Most have discovered how to make a kite drift so this is no longer a selling point in my opinion among the top kites. They can all make a kite that turns fast and relaunches easily, so it now comes down to smoothness, power, upwind ability, depower, position in the wind window and feedback through the bar. There are still plenty of differences between the brands wave kite offerings despite the fact that they are all fast, drift and relaunch easy.
You could say it comes down to the idiosyncrasies of the particular kite to fit into your riding style that makes you either like or dislike a kite after a single test ride. Most likely you will prefer something that has a familiar feel to what you have adapted to in your last kite. Playing devils advocate, if you can't be arsed, just buy it, fly it for a few weeks and you'll learn to adjust your style a little to suit the new kite and it too will become the best wave kite you have ever ridden. 
We sell the North Dice, and the Ozone Reo. They are all excellent specialty wave kites but are quite different from one another. Do we have a preference? Not really.... We sell the customer the kite which we believe will most closely match his/her requirements that will help take their riding to the next level. Style, board type, skill level and body weight are all major factors. One kite will never appease every rider. Demo, Demo, Demo!
DM
The more compact the shape and the larger/wider the wingtips , the better it turns:
- wider wingtips give more steering
- a compact shape gives has less momentum (mass to turn)
- a compact shape has also a longer center-strut which give earlier planning which allows you to use a smaller kite
This is why I would never use C-type of kites for wave but prefer delta shapes as the North Sea requires fast turning.
Remember this one: Takoon Pure
Aside it could fall out of the zenith (like a Bandit I and Dos due to the straight center strut on a delta) it turns as quick as a RRD Religion but one can use one sqm less.
Select to expand quoteAKSonline said..
Hey zarb,
A lot of this stuff is all waffle in any case. The differences between the kites is easily overcome by personal technique, skill level and riding style. Kites like the Reo are fast and quite sensitive to bar input, in other words they turn with little pressure and can turn fast. You will adapt to any kite, even polar opposites in a matter of about two weeks providing the kites are on an even par.
The North Dice turns fast but takes more effort to make it turn, so less inadvertent control errors than say on a Reo, but if you learn to fly the Reo, you adapt and learn not to make inadvertent mistakes or if you do you, counter them with quick turns and micro bar input adjustments. A few of the kites currently available have really turned it up and are difficult to judge apart on performance alone. Most have discovered how to make a kite drift so this is no longer a selling point in my opinion among the top kites. They can all make a kite that turns fast and relaunches easily, so it now comes down to smoothness, power, upwind ability, depower, position in the wind window and feedback through the bar. There are still plenty of differences between the brands wave kite offerings despite the fact that they are all fast, drift and relaunch easy.
You could say it comes down to the idiosyncrasies of the particular kite to fit into your riding style that makes you either like or dislike a kite after a single test ride. Most likely you will prefer something that has a familiar feel to what you have adapted to in your last kite. Playing devils advocate, if you can't be arsed, just buy it, fly it for a few weeks and you'll learn to adjust your style a little to suit the new kite and it too will become the best wave kite you have ever ridden.
We sell the North Dice, and the Ozone Reo. They are all excellent specialty wave kites but are quite different from one another. Do we have a preference? Not really.... We sell the customer the kite which we believe will most closely match his/her requirements that will help take their riding to the next level. Style, board type, skill level and body weight are all major factors. One kite will never appease every rider. Demo, Demo, Demo!
DM
Always worth reading, glad to see ya back on here a bit darren, community is much better off with your experience and advice. Ta mate.
Kiteforum has an interesting discussion going on about pulleys...
kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=2381552&p=804964
I'm looking at getting a 2014 7m Airush Wave, but I am a bit worried about all of the pulleys.
The demo one man. Most crew I know who have been on the wave find it precise and direct and faster turning than anything they have been on.
So best to demo and make up your own mind. But agreed it is an interesting discussion for sure.
From Darren...(AKS)
Most have discovered how to make a kite drift so this is no longer a selling point in my opinion among the top kites. They can all make a kite that turns fast and relaunches easily, so it now comes down to smoothness, power, upwind ability, depower, position in the wind window and feedback through the bar.
So true...read those 6 characteristics and look for them when demoing...Bloody good criteria for reviewing a kite a think.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
Think bridalling must be a HUGE FACTOR. (Something I learnt only recently, shucks)
... I've been saying this for ages, and why I've not been a fan of bridled kites. Being heavy really shows off any slight problems loud and clear to me!
But, these new generation bridle kites seem to be much much better, taking the Zephyr as an example, its the most non bridle bridled kite I've ridden so far!!!
Select to expand quotePuetz said..eppo said..
Think bridalling must be a HUGE FACTOR. (Something I learnt only recently, shucks)
... I've been saying this for ages, and why I've not been a fan of bridled kites. Being heavy really shows off any slight problems loud and clear to me!
But, these new generation bridle kites seem to be much much better, taking the Zephyr as an example, its the most non bridle bridled kite I've ridden so far!!!
The big boy and my little boy with the bad boy zephyr in hand. Lol!!!
Thanks for the launch robbie, just wondering where ya put ya beer down?? Normally its in hand.
As someone who has been riding kites in the waves for over 10 years, it is true to say any kite will work once you adjust to it.
I used to be against pulleys as well, now I ride the Wave kite and it has a heap of them. I used to be worried about them clogging up with crap, not spinning and wearing out bridal lines. Never had it happen.
The picture further up the post about pulleys allowing your kite to change its angle of attack more isn't hype. Its how you get more usable depower out of your kite. If you depower your kite and still have tension on your back lines it will still turn. You can be overpowered and still be in control and have a good time.
All the big name kites are good, they are all trying to get a point of difference to make you buy theirs. The same old story rings true, go out and fly one and see if you like it. I know after the first session on the Wave kite it did what I wanted it to and suited my style of riding. Hence I say its the best wave kite on the market.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..Puetz said..eppo said..
Think bridalling must be a HUGE FACTOR. (Something I learnt only recently, shucks)
... I've been saying this for ages, and why I've not been a fan of bridled kites. Being heavy really shows off any slight problems loud and clear to me!
But, these new generation bridle kites seem to be much much better, taking the Zephyr as an example, its the most non bridle bridled kite I've ridden so far!!!
The big boy and my little boy with the bad boy zephyr in hand. Lol!!!
Thanks for the launch robbie, just wondering where ya put ya beer down?? Normally its in hand.
... tee hee,,, beer put down on beach,,,, just out of shot!!
Hey, is that your boy's first launch,,,, not sure if you know but he was the only one holding it for a few seconds so technically, he launched you, I just assisted!!
Sanur man, yep great for the families. A little slower (a lot actually) than say Kuta which I'd be happy to never visit again.
We stayed at jankies place, (check his website out) walk to the kite spot, and go. Walk back via a restraint for a nasi goreng and a beer (or two).
Yeh man but hey it's Bali, we got lucky with the wind, don't hold me to it if ya miss some. Bring ya biggest kite and board.
Only problem is the rowdy Aussies from Darwin drinking all the beer at the club house so they kept running out all the time. Lol!!!
Met some awesome crew from around the world to. Always nice walking past the hotels to on the way, plenty to look at...he heheh
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
Sanur man, ...
.... Always nice walking past the hotels to on the way, plenty to look at...he heheh
... case in point,,,,, busted dude!!!!!! and I'm not going to show you what he was looking at either, or I'll get busted for taking the pic 
!
Classic. I want to know why you were taking a picture of me from behind though robbie, damn man.
Yeh busted right.
... I laughed my arse off when I saw what you were looking at!!!!!! What were you looking at hey...??? If I show you I will incriminate my self so I am pleading the 5th!!!!!!
