Rebel vs Vegas vs C4

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Rider: Weight,Level (intermediate to slight advanced)
Style: Freeriding, Surf - CB Wave (Mutant)
Weather: 17-25 SW at good old scabs

Just a quicky as plenty on the forum regarding these particular kites. Just a few nuances I noticed today.

Firstly thanks to AKS for getting these kites ready for me today. Shops looking good fellas.

All were 9m 2012, except the vegas was 2011.

Rebel: The rebel is as usual the rebel. 2012 is an improvement on last years. Less grunty but doesn't fly forward as quickly (then back) as last years, hence even smoother - if it could get any smoother. Just a great kite all round.

Vegas: (On freeride setting) The rebel has little flutter - this kite has none! very stable, sits deeper in the window and stays there. Very quick, with a much more consistent pull through the window than the rebel as per the design.

Someone said they give you a slight lift at the end of the loop for a softer landing and I can confirm this. This kite makes looping (well down looping for me) very easy. Far more forgiving than the rebel.

Easier to boost than the rebel due to its quickness and straight up...but not as much float as should be expected by the wing design.

Very direct, very exact and surprisingly good in the surf. For me better than the rebel in the surf as it turns quickly with consistent power. Can snap quicker on your truns back on the wave and for me on a TT mutant, can 'chase down' sections easier. Actually drifts much better than I would have expected.

Bar pressure is lighter than the rebel, but as this kite asks you to work it, it takes more effort to keep it on a consistent plane (wind hadn't kicked in properly so this may not be entirely the case, but I think it is). This gives it a 'heavyish feel' at the bottom end.

C4: Well this kite has really opened up my eyes. I would go as far to say the build quality - especially bar and lines is a 'bees dick' better than the north. Wind had kicked in, the holes filled so it didn't turn out to be a completely fair comparison, but we only extrapolate.

Someone said to me this kite requires precision flying and although it took me half an hour so to dial it in, I see what they mean. It has (and apparently all ozone kites share this) a very particular way they fly.

The depower is very precise and quick allowing you to play with the edge of the board and ultimately produces the same planing consistency as the rebel, which the vegas did lack - requires/asks you to actively fly it. it flies further forward in the window than the vegas, hence it shoots upwind more like the rebel. The kite does deform/flutter/fall back quickly into the window a little when you depower it (which I dislike in a kite) but you don't seem to feel this at the bar, and this is
the feature which would give this kite a very large wind range.

Lines 'feel' better than the north bar. Bar is a little too thick for my liking though (and i now see the jokes coming). Also I really missed the toggle to lock off power and I think the iron heart is superior to the Ozone mechanism for twisting out lines. But the Plastic sleeving and very light bar pressure almost negates the need for the north toggle, very smooth and as i said very precise. I also like the toggle for when I spin the bar, like it as close as possible. Would get used to not using it though.

It amazes me North does not use plastic sleeving on the depower, Apparently darren was saying he hasn't had to replace an ozone depower for two years now, they just sit on the store shelf looking at him! They also provide a more smooth feel. North falls short here.

Boosting is even easier than both the rebel and Vegas and has a little more float than the Vegas, not as much as the rebel. The light bar pressure and the precise feel allows you to really judge your launch point - and you can decide to launch very quickly. Need to temper this conclusion as the wind had kicked in by now, the holes had been filled.

Looping is great, but not as easy as the vegas - this kite isn't as quick. Doesn't give you this slight updraft at the end, but still loops extremely well. The C4 in the surf is much, much better than i could have expected. I was really having a ball at the end, was dialed in and I just couldn't get slack in the lines. But small swell, onshore stuff, so not the true test. But for me who surfs with the kite as an afterthought, it would be fantastic. You can really throw this thing around with precision in the waves. it's not a wave kite but it might as well be for me.


Decision: As I intend to keep my 11m rebel for 14 - 24 knots, light wind kiting, big ass boosting in the early twenties and some down the line winter kiting I decided to go the Vegas. For smaller sizes I think this is a better option especially than the rebel. Also looping is on the cards and the rebel really falls short here. I am also used to the 'North' feel and my time on this fifth line kite is not over just yet.

However next year I will be demoing the C4 again against my new 2012 vegas with some water time under my belt. It is a brilliant kite, well built and as I said have opened up my eyes. If I didn't intend to keep my Rebel, it might have pipped the Vegas. But then again I was on a 2011 in marginal conditions. Time will tell.

Hope some found this interesting and useful. All three are exceptional kites.

Good to visit the place where it all began for me, although very different...kite to the left, kites to the right, kites bloody everywhere!! it is actually quite a sight. Good to see the kiters keeping out of the windsurf zone.

Again thanks AKS, your integrity and willingness to help and advise is invaluable. Cheers fellas.

Cheers. One thing I didn't say the C4 is light, the kite is light, the struts are small, the bar is light, the feel is light. Compared to the Vegas and rebel.

hey eppo - nice review - was wondering if you had flown a north fuse before and compared as well? also, why the C4 and not edge or reo?

also, was the C4 maxed out towards the end last night - i was fairly well lit on 9m fuse all session, and using a very light twinnie, loads of rocker (and fun!) to dump power...too much power and apparent wind on the strapped surfboard so changed it out!
i hear you on the north bar and depower straps too. after having to replace two depower straps this year, it now looks like my red safety line to the leash is about to snap clean through as well. No one that looks at the bar can find any rough edge that may be rubbing and tearing them, but since nearly spending the equivalent of a new bar this year, am almost thinking i should just bite the bullet and get a new one (maybe with a 6m start of next summer wjhere we may get some real wind for a change ) - frustrating after 6 years riding rebels, rhino, fuse etc, and never changing one before!!! all that being said, apparently i could be nicking them on fins or something to start the fraying...in which case bad luck for me

No mate the North center lines's set up falls short compared to ozone, straight out, no argument. But only a D1ckhead would make there kite decision based on depower wear. in the end it is the performance of the kite that matters. The north bar does work very well, engineering wise, it is just the depower wear that gives me and you, it seems, the Sh1ts. The plastic sleeving also allows for a smoother feel. I remember experiencing ages ago on a cab switch I was having a go on and thought why the Farq doesn't everybody do this.

Yes had a crack on the fuse before (not for long) - yeh it is a great kite, the boosting is awesome, reckon they fall short in the surf and behave even worse than the rebels for delayed pivot turn and really lack drift to any degree. But that's just me and my opinion is based on pretty small usage. Some swear by them. You make good whatever you are on really.

The edge is a specific kite, requiring specific skills, read reviews on it...all based on building up apparent wind. Reo is a specific wave kite - haven't been on one, but seen guys down our way in winter just ripping. I was looking for a kite that loops really well, would be stable for say roll transitions with a downloop (that's about as fancy as I get, lol) and not punish me like the rebel did. I still pulled them off 4 out of 5 times no probs (the rebel is not completly useless at looping, in the hands of some one good they are quite capable) but the fifth would seriously hurt me - the rebel has unforgiving pull and the pivot turn delay can leave you hanging midway through a loop thinking ...oh faaarq here it comes as you watch it enter the power zone and crank up its grunting power!!! Yeh the edge (love to have one hanging around and the reo - if only I had lots of money, don't suite where I'm at.

But I still needed it to be an allrounder - I play mainly at the beach (sometimes the estuary but take the ocean anyday, the estuary is a sess pit I reckon). I like to boost with old school stuff but I do get amongst the waves, especially in winter - the CB wave allows all of that. Hence the C4/vegas fits that bill. Also if I lose my mind I may want to try some new school tricks (after my ankle surgery in april - note the timing).

The guys at AKS really insisted I gave the c4 a crack. Here's your rebel, here's the vegas, but please try this kite as well...That is what they are good at, they can understand and can tailor good choices for you.

Although they gave me a bloody hard choice to weigh up!

Good review Ep.

Where do you find the time?!

Well not posting anymore on the other thread has freed up buckets of time...LOL!

Had to wangle and deal at work, but now I will be paying for it all this week! Also was an hour and a half drive each way to to the demo's. A little tip mask; when you have three kites to demo, take a mate or two along...pumping up/setting up three kites, self launching and landing, three goes each - damn I was knackered!

But all in the name of finding the perfect kite....for me that is. Also I like to always try and get a little more edumacated about kite performance and the differences.

C4 is a sweet machine man!

Then I'd demo a catalyst or a reo for a total surf kite. Others might have other ideas but I like what I saw with ozone. Depends if you want to go all the way in the surf. Although talk to seasoned Vegas riders and they swear by it for the surf. Rebel would work but there is no doubt it can pull you off the face. Big sweeping movement is needed, can't snap this mite around the window. Vegas you can, but the first two kites especially the latter, is a true wave kite. Cabrinha make a decent wave kite as well, guy down my way moved from the switch to the nomad I think it is called, might have been super ceded. There is also the BWS..

Me Id go the ozone if I was truly just surfing, although some a raving about the best TS as well.

Go epp i reacon you could stretch this post out to 10 + pages mate
Cant believe you've found something better than the reb thoughgrin factor must be off the charts.

Yea mate had the 9m Fury and Escape out back to back two days for about 6 hours,Fury is way higher aspect but turns so fast and the bar is soooo light its a dream to ride ,quite the opposite of what i expected ,first day was a surf ride15-25knots and both kites were awesome for surf riding and boosting was on the CB wave,float is huge,second day was 12-20knots and we took the 9's out to test the low end as the lulls were huge lasting up to 5 min,we were powered the whole time other guys were riding 10-13 m kites so a sick range.
Took the 11 escape out in 9-11 knots sideshore on my 140 tt and was able to ride it no worries with only loosing marginal ground ,then my mate (70kg) rode it on a 133tt and did 10 tacks in a sideshore without loosing ground ,was crazy for an 11you gotta get a ride on these kites and let me know what you think.

Im hangin out to try the new Fury light 17 and 19 the low end is gonna be crazy.

As I said before they come from a very good pedigree. So they are more suited to dudes like as freeride? Yeh man love to but who in WA is getting these?? Keep us posted on your rides. CB wave rocks hey? Not sure why more crew don't have one.

Hey radman, so the fury is more for surf right? and they Escape for free-ride. 11m in 9-11 knots, that wasn't on the cb wave was it? Regardless still awesome.

Are these bridled pulley kites? What is there 'DNA' - bow/C, Delta/C?? How do they 'fly' - forward in the window, back in it? Stable? How do they turn - pivot or U turn?

Where is kite addiction again?

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Both are great in the surf but the Escape is a great crossover freeride kite,was on my teaching board 140 x 42.5 great for light wind ultra wide tips,bridled direct rear single front pulley,Escape is 4 strut mid aspect flat bow,Fury is mid/high aspect flat bow 5 strut, pivot turn i threw toeside on a wave and looped the 9 Fury 4 loops and it just spun on its own axis then spun it the other way while riding along in the opposite direction no probs,both fly forward in the window and thus far i havent managed to stall one out ,great boost and float kite comes up the side of the window never back in the window so you seem to boost huge ,float forever and land soft as






Hey radman, so the fury is more for surf right? and they Escape for free-ride. 11m in 9-11 knots, that wasn't on the cb wave was it? Regardless still awesome.

Are these bridled pulley kites? What is there 'DNA' - bow/C, Delta/C?? How do they 'fly' - forward in the window, back in it? Stable? How do they turn - pivot or U turn?

@ Flying High

I spent a couple of seasons on the Rebels and am now in my second season on the Vegas.

Re low end grunt / range. I weigh 70kgs and ride a Nobile NHP 131. For 2012 I didn't bother buying a 12 and went for a 10, 8, 6. I am using the 10 from about 15 knots and getting on the 8 around 19 / 20 knots. 6 comes out 30 + knots.

I'm very happy with the Vegas. It's great fun to loop, unhooks well and on those gusty frontal Melbourne days it is super smooth on the free ride setting.

I'm hearing great things about the C4 and will love to test them back to back. From what I hear Ozone might be a step up in the after sales support department. Which is a very important decision criteria for me as I don't like missing sessions while waiting for parts.

Couldnt get more different in feel. Yeh the gust eating qualities of the Vegas will be also important for me as the winds down here can get gusty ( which is very noticeable over twenty knots), due to the effect of the estuary. Looking forward to the loops and winter fronts in the surf.