Ive got about 4 years kiting experience using and manufacturing LEI kites only. This season I decided to purchase the PL Venom... and from the 6 or so sessions Ive had with it so far am very impressed!
In summary:
. the 13 metre in my opinion has about the grunt of a 10-12 metre LEI kite
. these kites handle different and do take a few sessions to get the knack, but once you get the knack they are really easy to fly (in a nutshell Ive found that you need to let the trailing edge out to get the kite flying fast and to get max power)
. self launching and landing is SO easy and safe.
. the usagable wind range is huge, & heaps of depower (ive had no problem holding my 13 down in conditions I have would usually use an 8 metre LEI)
. the way it inflates it self is awesome... no bladders to be pumped is fantastic, and the valves that let the kite continue to inflate while flying is awesome, and no probs with water getting into the kite
. water launching is really easy (easier than with LEI kites) and you can easily relaunch down wind... ie no mucking around like with the LEI kites where you have to get you kite to the edge of the window... something that can be a pain in light winds
. stability is by far superior to any LEI kite, just let go of the bar and the kite auto zeniths, that right if you have a crash just let go of the bar (something you try and avoid with LEI kites) and chances are you will not even have to re-launch
. and what I love the most... the kite does not luff... do a huge jump and dont re-direct youve kite in time (ie. your kite being upwind from you) and the bloody thing just floats down wind until the lines become tight and flies normal again, it is so user freindly and super easy to jump... even unco kiters like me can get huge air. I guess this is because the kite wieghs heaps less than a LEI thanks to no bladders
After having one of these kites it is just so obvious why PL kite owners love their kites! Seeing as these kite are so user freindly they are in my opionon the best product for learners... heaps better than the bow kites that cant be self launched etc. etc.
Andrew
quote:
Originally posted by Andrew
Ive got about 4 years kiting experience using and manufacturing LEI kites only. This season I decided to purchase the PL Venom... and from the 6 or so sessions Ive had with it so far am very impressed!
In summary:
. the 13 metre in my opinion has about the grunt of a 10-12 metre LEI kite
. these kites handle different and do take a few sessions to get the knack, but once you get the knack they are really easy to fly (in a nutshell Ive found that you need to let the trailing edge out to get the kite flying fast and to get max power)
. self launching and landing is SO easy and safe.
. the usagable wind range is huge, & heaps of depower (ive had no problem holding my 13 down in conditions I have would usually use an 8 metre LEI)
. the way it inflates it self is awesome... no bladders to be pumped is fantastic, and the valves that let the kite continue to inflate while flying is awesome, and no probs with water getting into the kite
. water launching is really easy (easier than with LEI kites) and you can easily relaunch down wind... ie no mucking around like with the LEI kites where you have to get you kite to the edge of the window... something that can be a pain in light winds
. stability is by far superior to any LEI kite, just let go of the bar and the kite auto zeniths, that right if you have a crash just let go of the bar (something you try and avoid with LEI kites) and chances are you will not even have to re-launch
. and what I love the most... the kite does not luff... do a huge jump and dont re-direct youve kite in time (ie. your kite being upwind from you) and the bloody thing just floats down wind until the lines become tight and flies normal again, it is so user freindly and super easy to jump... even unco kiters like me can get huge air. I guess this is because the kite wieghs heaps less than a LEI thanks to no bladders
After having one of these kites it is just so obvious why PL kite owners love their kites! Seeing as these kite are so user freindly they are in my opionon the best product for learners... heaps better than the bow kites that cant be self launched etc. etc.
Andrew
quote:How do they relaunch one dropped in the waves? The ones I,ve seen quickly lose shape/fold up etc. And yes an LEI once its had a good drenching is probably not a long way in front on successful relaunch.
Originally posted by Andrew
Ive got about 4 years kiting experience using and manufacturing LEI kites only. This season I decided to purchase the PL Venom... and from the 6 or so sessions Ive had with it so far am very impressed!
In summary:
. the 13 metre in my opinion has about the grunt of a 10-12 metre LEI kite
. these kites handle different and do take a few sessions to get the knack, but once you get the knack they are really easy to fly (in a nutshell Ive found that you need to let the trailing edge out to get the kite flying fast and to get max power)
. self launching and landing is SO easy and safe.
. the usagable wind range is huge, & heaps of depower (ive had no problem holding my 13 down in conditions I have would usually use an 8 metre LEI)
. the way it inflates it self is awesome... no bladders to be pumped is fantastic, and the valves that let the kite continue to inflate while flying is awesome, and no probs with water getting into the kite
. water launching is really easy (easier than with LEI kites) and you can easily relaunch down wind... ie no mucking around like with the LEI kites where you have to get you kite to the edge of the window... something that can be a pain in light winds
. stability is by far superior to any LEI kite, just let go of the bar and the kite auto zeniths, that right if you have a crash just let go of the bar (something you try and avoid with LEI kites) and chances are you will not even have to re-launch
. and what I love the most... the kite does not luff... do a huge jump and dont re-direct youve kite in time (ie. your kite being upwind from you) and the bloody thing just floats down wind until the lines become tight and flies normal again, it is so user freindly and super easy to jump... even unco kiters like me can get huge air. I guess this is because the kite wieghs heaps less than a LEI thanks to no bladders
After having one of these kites it is just so obvious why PL kite owners love their kites! Seeing as these kite are so user freindly they are in my opionon the best product for learners... heaps better than the bow kites that cant be self launched etc. etc.
Andrew
Please describe the self land process. This an the ability of handling gusts will be a big factor over choosing a bow kite. I am a noob and got no friends to assist in landing. Thanks
Self landing a Venom/any arc is pretty straight forward, put the kite out low on the window and pull the quick release to release the kite to one line. It will then fly around the window until its down wind of you and then it'll just flag out flat like a "mattress" and flap around a bit fully depowered on one line. Then its just a matter of walking up to the kite pulling in on the line as you go. I landed in 25 knots yesterday on my own, too easy. Self landings are one of the advantages of an Arc. Venoms come with an instructional video which has the self landing on it, Neil at Hold the Line might have a spare you can borrow if you want to watch it. Good luck.
Hi Sburlo,
Rods comments on self landing are correct. Just pull the safety release and the thing just floats down (cause its so much lighter than the LEI due to no bladders it comes down so much easier and it is really easy walking up to your kite along the safety line). When self landing Ive just been pulling the release with the kite directly over head while standing on the beach... so it doesnt get wet.
Re bottom end of wind range... Neil seems to be able to stay upwind in incredible low wind... myself however the venom 13 is good for 15-30 knots (I weigh around 75kg).
Last thing to add: on friday it was really gusty... and I found the venom so much easier to control a smooth power during gusts than my old LEI. I do notice the bows are also great in gusts... I recon the venom would at least be on a par in this respect (but I havent flown a bow)
Hi Bazaff,
I havent had it in the surf yet so I dont know. Water woundnt get into the kite so it would keeps its shape. The aspect ratio is quite high so I recon if it got hit by a wall of white wash it may twist???
cheers Andrew
Thanks for the advice and info Andrew and Rod, would you recommend getting the supplied bar or would my current airush 04 4 line bar suffice?
sburlo. I have about 6 months experience on Arcs (10 & 16 Venoms) after switching from LEI. They definetly require a different flying style to LEI but in my opinion it's worth the effort! You asked about whether your Airush bar will be OK to use. As long as there is plenty of play in the centre hole with the chicken loop rope your using it should be fine. The PL bar has a huge hole. I find that at times I need to turn the kite while pulling in on the bar or letting it out. If you don't have this slack in the centre hole you may not get the best out of your Venom. Just my opinion.
Another way to land an Arc is to have the kite overhead (completely depowered) and pull evenly on your rear leaders. This will cause the kite to reverse towards the beach straight downwind of you. Once it's close to beach release the bar to your safety and walk towards the kite so it lands smoothly without twisting your lines at all (if your lucky). Sometimes I find that when you use the other methods mentioned the kite can spiral a few times on the way down. I'd only recommend this style of self land after a bit of experience though and definetly not in high winds. The other methods are the safest for sure and if your packing up anyway (and a couple of line twists aren't a concern) I'd recommend that style of landing.
If you haven't already checked out www.arcusers.com do that as it's pretty much the home of all things Arc related. Lots of info on mods you can do to get even more out of your bigger Venom. Faster turning, better bottom end etc. I haven't modded my V10 as it's perfect the way it is. (;]. Cheers.
Hi Surblo,
You wish to update your airrush set-up to include a power adjuster that has heaps of movement... the PL one has much more than other brands which is handy as the kite handles a greater wind range.
Personally I found the PL bar a little short and have swtiched it to a longer bar...
Also make sure you use 27-30m line lengths. I used 20m lines with my LEI mainly cause it was heaps easier to self launch... but obvioulsy PL kites are are launched from on 30-45 degrees from directly upwind (as opposed to 90 degrees with LEI kites) and therefore the longer line length are really easy as I dont have to wade throught the sea weed etc. like before
regards
Andrew
Thanks fellas for the great advice, many nice kites out there to choose from. Just got to convince my misses that the outlay will be justified by the increase in safety.
Take the self land tips given here .the key to launch is to keep good pressure on the downwind tip.Even really experienced guys here still fluff their launches and water relaunches because they don't pull that tip down(it wants to race over to the edge of the window )
the main thing with the Venom we have found for newbs is combining kite and board skills .We attended the girls day in Sydney a cupla weeks back and the venom helped one of the girls immensely with the kite and board ,and other kites all over the place delemma.
the flat LEI's have addressed the old LEI stability/combine kite and board issue but we still are getting best results with the venom.Another school asked how we are selling so many venoms ,simple answer, we teach on them and the students love them.
I've learnt on an old 1120 arc, the main benefits I have found that have allowed me to learn very quickly are as follows, (I have never used an LEI so I cant compare).
1)the self launch, once you get the knack its dead easy.
2)the auto zeneth, no bar input required they just sit there.
3) and self land, (flysurfers have the best self landing I have seen)
4)excellent flight stability,
5)no bar pressure,( no sore elbows)
6)no luffing,
7)water lauching is super easy, in the surf it sits high up and bounces over white water.
8)easy pack up and set up, dont need a backpack of gear.
easy repairs, double sided tape and stick back spinaker tape works wonders.
9)longevity, my kite is at least 5 years old and still going strong.
The down sides
1)You cant go in for a few runs and then leave the kite on the sand for two hours while you make idle chit chat. Once its inflated you need to fly it or it flaps around and tangles the lines.
2) you cant really set up multiple kites and leave them on the beach.
3)Bowtie kite tangles, they can be tricky flying when wet especially if they have taken in water and are not full of air.
4)if you dont have your lines straight your in for a short launch followed by a death spiral.
4) if you do get water in them then your in for a long slow swim ( dont submerg the tips when water launching).
Andy
hi Andy
One of the downsides with the old standard arcs was the inlet vents at the shoulders .this is the main area water can get in.We used to block them up(either with duck tape or go in and sew the vent shut)no appraent downside in performance.good to hear your kite is sill going strong.
Cheers
lach
Yes so I have heard, but thats just part of the fun and my kite doesnt sit on the water too long.
While I'm at it I should get the bum flap sewn up, the kite wedged and the inflation zippers put in. Know anyone that can sew, I just use double sided tape for my small repairs.
I started on a venom 16 at the tail end of last season and it has been excellent to learn on particularly with the conditions we have in Melbourne - I had a bad experience initially with one of the poles snapping and punching a hole in the sleeve after a crash but managed to get a replacement pretty easily - I then took the kite over to Noosa in November and went out in 25knot plus conditions - launched far too powered up and ended up being dragged about 100 meters across the Noosa river mouth before self releasing - my own fault for launching 'hot' and in overpowered conditions. I managed to pull the red release toggle right off the chicken loop in the process.
I've since bought an 11 meter GK Sonic for higher winds and have used that more this season as it seems to handle the higher winds better - as an arc user I found the Sonic is similar in feel - it helps if you crank the bar when turning on both kites.
Both kites have heaps of grunt - I'd say the Peter Lynn is safer, quicker to set up and easier to use so it would be a better learner kite.
The sonic is probably easier to relaunch from the water but I tend to crash it more than the Peter Lynn - then again the Peter Lynn is really easy to relaunch in lighter winds than the Sonic - you just pull on the two middle (front) lines and it pops up.
I was out on Saturday night at 7.30pm in about 16 knots on the Venom and had a blast - ideal conditions for the kite.
Hey Andy (8ftplus)
Great to hear that your Arc 1120 is still going strong after 5 years!!! Goes to show that the fabric and construction method is up to standard (assuming you haven't had any serious failures) Have you tried a V-13 yet?? I reckon you'll be blown away by the tighter turning.
all the best
Neil Taylor
Thanks Neil,
Its kind of like driving an old car, similar handeling, low purchase price, DIY maintenance, still goes like the clappers when you give it some (after the initial delay), nobody is going to rip it off or get too close to you and best of all I get plenty of smiles and looks from those with long memories and comments like I remember them.
I wonder where all the old S'arcs and G's have gone, must be under someones bed.
cheers
Andy
Hy guys,
You heve to see how it is when you stack them toghether! I was using a 630, 840 and 1120 stacked toghether, and got going in 8 - 10 knots winds (my weght is above the average weight of a kitesurfer published in the spec's).
They are fantastic kites, literally un-breakeble, and even when I had two stacked toghether, I was able to relaunch them after crashes 2 out of three times.
To stack them toghether you need to have a set of four equal lines of 7.5 to 8 m.
Hi Andy
A word of warning about Neil. I've been flying a G2 11m, and when Neil let me try the V13 just before Christmas I just didn't want to give it back. We compromised by me buying it off him the next morning. Hahaha. The Venom is a fantastic kite! So my G2's up for sale as of today if anyone wants it.
Graeme
