Select to expand quotecauncy said...Andy T said...
RPM all day everyday
I've heard he hangs around male toilet blocks offering a freeride all day everyday
Only when staying in Dongara, the local kiters seem to like the action 
Select to expand quoteKozzie said..
blueprint said..
Kozzie said..
windtzu said..
windtzu said..
Kozzie said..
weebitbreezy said..
Kozzie said..
its the switchblade. not just mine but the entire worlds.
now basicly what you NEED is a fat little bow kite with a long chord length and low aspect ratio. this makes it very durable lots of "depowerability" and handles gusts very well with consistant pull so very little stalling possibilitys.
and thats basicly it.
Could say the same about the North Rebel. Bow kite, plenty of trim/range, handles gusts and easy upwind. The shape has been around for donkeys years too.
But if it were me picking from the North range I'd take out a '14 (onwards) Evo.
could say the same about any fat bow kite thats the point its the design and construction not the brand.
one thing worth noteing is all those "freeride" kites you see with 3 struts is just to keep production costs down. there not as strong/durable. also you can spot a cheap **** kite by how few "sections" are on the leading edge. the smoother/closer to a circle any aerofoils leading edge the better it will be and all those stitched sections add more robust/strength because of the pressure and span of the panel
3 Struts not as strong/durable? I disagree for all cases and don't believe you can assume this for all kites. The Airush Wave (3 strut) is as beefy as it gets, along with other 3 strut designs out there. While some mfg may choose to design three struts to keep costs down, it's also an intentional design element independent of cost.
Kozzie, my reasoning is based on a conversation I had with a guy who use to build kites and worked at Airush a time back. Perhaps he had not the faintest idea. You may be right > For the record I disagreed with you, and I didn't feel the need to insult you...What's with the personal remarks, "...you peanut." Really?
Hey, I have no issue with a back and forth banter. But dude, there's no need to behave like an ass.
because you ARE a peanut and if you get some spaghetti from your pantry were going to find out just how MUCH of a peanut you are
now that you have some strands of spaghetti i want you to break some into various lengths. and i want you to continue breaking them paying close attention to how much force is required to break them. now your hopefully realiseing something recurring here its that your a peanut and that the shorter the span the stronger it is. now this reasonably obvious rule carries across not just for spaghetti or timber or paper or peanuts but also for fabric. now just sit and look at your pile of spaghetti for a bit and think about it for a bit.
now if you could kindly picture a kite with NO STRUTS and one with 10 what are we thinking now? are we begining to see something occur? in your little peanut head you peanut brain. yes thats right they one with no struts is going to just be a very large piece of fabric with quite a big span. now to make it twice as strong were going to chuck 1 strut bang right there in the middle.... now we can see the canopys now 2 much smallers sections allmost half the size of the original span, remember how much more force was required to break those half pieces of spaghetti then it was for the long unbroken one? now wheres the 2 weak spots? in the middle of the 2 big pieces of cloth again? thats right it is. and if we were going to add 2 more struts what would happen? thats it peanut now youve got the hang of it. now problem with evenly placeing struts in the weakest points is that the struts themselves create quite a bit of drag. so were going to shuffle them down a little bit so the drag is reduced and the strength and durability IS IMPACTED it is but only just a bit. not nearly as badly impacted as if there were only 3 struts
but yeah hope that explains it for you seeing as you were to lazy to simply click the link and press a couple buttons on surfplan and figure this **** out for yourself.
kite/sail/wing designers have all sorts of little tricks but they all still have to obey some pretty simple principles. you failing to see a very very basic principal most 5 year olds have seen is beyond me but hay its the internet i could honestly be converseing to anyone right now even a peanut
ps
maybe the airrush designer shortened the sections of cloth on the leading edge ? remember that pasta? go look at your leading edge. see all the stitching? imagine each one of those sections being some pasta now imagine each one of those sections costing money. if you want a strong kite you want it to cost alot it will cost alot because of the kilometers of stitching. and yeah 5 struts is basicly as ideal (in there current sizes) as its going to get for durability without them affecting flight characteristics to much with weight and drag and cost. i feel a rant about torsion and yawing comeing on but ill try stop
If you are going to talk about strength and in particular failure then you need to be considering the particular mode of failure, your spaghetti analogy is considering a bending failure which cannot be achieved with fabric alone. I think you'll find that there are failure modes in a kite where additional struts may make a small difference but the bursting type failures common to kiting (kite hit by wave, bursting from tomahawking the kite etc) are a pure function of tensile strength of the materials. Most other failures are tears from an object where again struts don't really have an effect (again there are places like keeping more tension in the canopy where they would have an effect but this is also likely to be negative).
bursting failure 3 struts verse 5 with a 5 strut kite with the strut valves open theres more area for the pressurised air to escape to. meaning it bursts less.
the whole point here is 5 strut kites are stronger and more durable then 3 strut kites. you can crap on about whatever you want but thats not going to change it.
you want to talk about tears now? from ****ing shells and rocks? this has NOTHING to do with the whole ****ing point of all of this bull**** conversation is to try explain to some dolt that whatever horse **** his designer friend fed him that kites arent some sort of magical device the whole purpose of struts and bladders is to create a rigid structure your starting to pull what if scenarios from the clouds about how the spaghetti should be cooked first. do you want me to use matches as an example next time? paddlepop sticks? i didnt think he had a pile of paddlepop sticks left over from his 2nd form class 50 years ago or whenver it was. next time ill use his computer desk as a model and tell him to cut half the legs off or maybe just nock out every 2nd noggin in his bedroom wall it really doesnt matter because were discussing something thats bleedingly obvious to anyone who has even stacked a pile of chicken bones on there dinner plate like some sort of aztecian catacombial sacrifical alter its very very basic it doesnt even REQUIRE us to mention it at all. you could ask 9 out of 10 people on the street hi which one of these kites is stronger 2 identical kites but one has 5 struts the other 3 and what are they going to say? honestly **** it your RIGHT YOUR ABSOULTELY RIGHT!!! oh how my world has turned im going to go cut out half the struts from all my kites because its going to make them stronger im going to do the same with my paragliders to im just going to change them from haveing 48 cells to ****ing 24 cells HALF the cell walls! THEYLLL BE TWICE AS STRONG!!! and my parachutes to no more struts in those **** em all off man there going to be so strong after i remove all these struts actually let me do some maths here.... if i make all my kites 3 strut kites.... ill have 10 kite struts for sale! and same goes for my wings my 50 cell gliders ill cut out 25 cells makeing them twice as strong! and lighter!!! wooooooeeeee and dont think your getting away reserve chutes! now for my skydiver canopys! god there going to be strong once i take out these cells !! why didnt i think of this before?!?!!? your a genius youve saved me from my foolish ways. next time im building a prison or a airport or a hospital im just going to halve all the ****ing struts oh the spans!! columns so far apart ill be saveing millions AND makeing the building stronger! i gotto go going to rip up all the floorboards and halve the joists so my house is ready for any earthquakes that might come in the new world where everythings ****ing bull****
And I assume you don't lock off the struts on your one pump then...... the rest of that just says I'm emotional and don't like losing.....
Psychojoe - I'm with you , Core XR any day.
Just a great fun predictable all rounder.
Select to expand quoteblueprint said..
And I assume you don't lock off the struts on your one pump then...... the rest of that just says I'm emotional and don't like losing.....
yeah ive never lost before.
cant believe 3 strut kites are stronger then 5 strut kites
Select to expand quotePlummet said..
Ok.
Lets back the truck up a bit and talk about the different types of kites.
At one end you have low aspect. Short fat kites. The turn fast have good depower at the bar relaunch easy and drift well.
Wave kites and learners kites are in this bracket. Typically they are 3 strut. But they don't go upwind very well (despite what the salesman tells you) and there jumping is the worst. These kites can get pretty boring after a while unless your ripping down the line on monster waves.
At the other end you have high a aspect long thin kites. Typically 5 strut. These kites turn slower, relaunch is more difficult and they drift like ****. But There crank upwind like a mofo and boost into the stratosphere. They also go real fast. These are usually toted as advanced kite. The upwind, lift and speed makes the generally more exciting kites to fly.
A mid aspect kite will be in between these 2 extremes. They come in 3 or 5 struts and will have better upwind and jumping than the aspect kite and better relaunch and drift than the high aspect kite.
Apart from aspect you have 3 different types of lei's. A sle (supported leading edge) kite with a bridle and flatter wing curve. More depower, better relaunch less direct feel. Typically more powerful per meter and has more float in jumps. Turns slower.
A "C" kite that is shaped like a C with lines connected directly to the kite. These turn the fastest and have the most direct feel. They loop like Mojo's and tear you off the water and drop you like a stone. They have the worst relaunch and depower.
Then you have a Hydrid that is a C shaped kite. With a small bridle. Gives you the some C kite advantages of good turning and wang in the jumps with the advantage of some extra depower and relaunch ability of the sle.
From your explanation you will benefit from a mid aspect sle or Hydrid C.
From the ozone range (this is what I know best as that's what I fly)
Reo low aspect sle wave kite 3 strut
catalyste low aspect sle learner kite 3 strut
enduro mid aspect sle 3 strut
C4 Mid aspect C/Hybrid C 5 strut
Edge high aspect 5 strut sle.
lets back that truck up a bit further plums, for me the absolute no 1 priority is power on tap, a low aspect wave kite and a learner kite don't cut it for me in the freeride category, high to higher aspect kites imho are freeride in a nutshell, a reo and cat even in their upper ranges have you wanting, rebels , evo, edge, nitro,bandits, rpm, the list goes on as a preferred freeriding kite, not a limited kite
Select to expand quotecauncy said..Plummet said..
Ok.
Lets back the truck up a bit and talk about the different types of kites.
At one end you have low aspect. Short fat kites. The turn fast have good depower at the bar relaunch easy and drift well.
Wave kites and learners kites are in this bracket. Typically they are 3 strut. But they don't go upwind very well (despite what the salesman tells you) and there jumping is the worst. These kites can get pretty boring after a while unless your ripping down the line on monster waves.
At the other end you have high a aspect long thin kites. Typically 5 strut. These kites turn slower, relaunch is more difficult and they drift like ****. But There crank upwind like a mofo and boost into the stratosphere. They also go real fast. These are usually toted as advanced kite. The upwind, lift and speed makes the generally more exciting kites to fly.
A mid aspect kite will be in between these 2 extremes. They come in 3 or 5 struts and will have better upwind and jumping than the aspect kite and better relaunch and drift than the high aspect kite.
Apart from aspect you have 3 different types of lei's. A sle (supported leading edge) kite with a bridle and flatter wing curve. More depower, better relaunch less direct feel. Typically more powerful per meter and has more float in jumps. Turns slower.
A "C" kite that is shaped like a C with lines connected directly to the kite. These turn the fastest and have the most direct feel. They loop like Mojo's and tear you off the water and drop you like a stone. They have the worst relaunch and depower.
Then you have a Hydrid that is a C shaped kite. With a small bridle. Gives you the some C kite advantages of good turning and wang in the jumps with the advantage of some extra depower and relaunch ability of the sle.
From your explanation you will benefit from a mid aspect sle or Hydrid C.
From the ozone range (this is what I know best as that's what I fly)
Reo low aspect sle wave kite 3 strut
catalyste low aspect sle learner kite 3 strut
enduro mid aspect sle 3 strut
C4 Mid aspect C/Hybrid C 5 strut
Edge high aspect 5 strut sle.
lets back that truck up a bit further plums, for me the absolute no 1 priority is power on tap, a low aspect wave kite and a learner kite don't cut it for me in the freeride category, high to higher aspect kites imho are freeride in a nutshell, a reo and cat even in their upper ranges have you wanting, rebels , evo, edge, nitro,bandits, rpm, the list goes on as a preferred freeriding kite, not a limited kite
Well I don't disagree with you man. However the higher aspect you go the more experience you need to handle them. So a relative newbie could be overwhelmed with a ozone edge for example.
Can you define Freeride gentlemen?
For me this is everything but wave riding and freestyle (which includes Wakestyle).
I would not classify higher aspect kites as more advanced than mid/lower aspect kites. It just depends on your style of riding. I see a lot of beginners enjoying Rebels Edges etc as they are less sensitive to steering input and have sufficient grunt per se without having to produce it actively. They can't operate a fast moving kite yet properly and don't have a good sine technique (I am talking about bar in and out on down/upstroke) etc.
Flying a kite properly especially at its upper limit to get the maximum benefit out of it, yes, this is a different story, but on any kite.
For me Freeriding is doing a bit of everything including going big (I enjoy sending the kite c-kite style to get a fast high G force acceleration and vertical height with very limited tea bagging effect, and find kites which only require pulling the bar in to get airborne plain boring), looping, all sort of rotations w/ or w/o loops, dark slides, basic unhooked stuff, slashing some smaller waves both on tt and sb, riding fast and powered. Correct me if this is not freeriding.
Now, I enjoy both C kites as well as open c bridled kites as I find those kites very suitable to tick all the boxes and truly do a bit of everything. You can ride anything e.g. a Cat hard (even though a lot of Cat riders will propably mow the lawn most of their time only) as well and make it look very advanced.
So what I am trying so say is why categorizing kites. This is just manufacturers' marketing bs. Fly whatever makes you smile whether someone thinks it's the intended use or not
PS. RPM is almost identical in shape to a Cat (up to 2015) i.e. open C, hence would not list it among the big boosting delta higher aspect kites you listed.
Select to expand quoteRussKraut said..
Can you define Freeride gentlemen?
For me this is everything but wave riding and freestyle (which includes Wakestyle).
I would not classify higher aspect kites as more advanced than mid/lower aspect kites. It just depends on your style of riding. I see a lot of beginners enjoying Rebels Edges etc as they are less sensitive to steering input and have sufficient grunt per se without having to produce it actively. They can't operate a fast moving kite yet properly and don't have a good sine technique (I am talking about bar in and out on down/upstroke) etc.
Flying a kite properly especially at its upper limit to get the maximum benefit out of it, yes, this is a different story, but on any kite.
For me Freeriding is doing a bit of everything including going big (I enjoy sending the kite c-kite style to get a fast high G force acceleration and vertical height with very limited tea bagging effect, and find kites which only require pulling the bar in to get airborne plain boring), looping, all sort of rotations w/ or w/o loops, dark slides, basic unhooked stuff, slashing some smaller waves both on tt and sb, riding fast and powered. Correct me if this is not freeriding.
Now, I enjoy both C kites as well as open c bridles kites as I find those kites very suitable to tick all the boxes and truly do a bit of everything. You can ride a Reo or Cat hard as well and make it look very advanced.
So what I am trying so say is why categorizing kites. This is just manufacturers' marketing bs. Fly whatever makes you smile whether someone things it's the intended use or not
PS. RPM is almost identical in shape to a Cat (up to 2015) hence would not list it among the big boosting delta higher aspect kites you listed.
I tend to agree with your definition of freeriding. Fanging around, boosting big but not doing hardcore wave,wake,freestyle But maybe a smattering of it all.
The reason I call high aspect kites more advanced is because they are harder to launch and land and produce way more power as the apparent speed builds. You also go FAST which is hard for a learner to handle. Theres a reason learners kites are low aspect kites.
I have all the ozone range from chrono to reo. (with the exception to c4, which I used to own). By far the easiest kite to handle is the reo and the hardest the chrono.
I also agree that an bridled C makes for a good freeride kite. Particularly if you like to loop and have that tear you off the ground g force in the jumps. I rode the c4 for several years relishing that style of jumping and looping. But faded back to the Edge as I really like to jump a long distance and glide through the air. The open C didn't glide me like I wanted..... Each to there own.
Yeah I see what you mean. True, beginners may be a bit overwhelmed by the speed and power building. I can go fast on my Enduro also though 
but in order to do so I will end up much further downwind from where you will end up. I changed over from Vegas to Enduro mainly as I don't need a ton of slack, but also as I wanted to have a second or two more airtime and most importantly softer landings. So give it a go as well if you are ready for a compromise (no big distance gliding but decent hangtime). Clearly there is a trade off with any kite trying to do it all but it is a pretty good kite. I was not a Cat fan before I have to say. Bit boring and not as responsive.
The Enduro is a little bit similar to the older, think it was 2012 C4s I'd say, just more refined and dynamic and agile 
Select to expand quotePlummet said..
Well I don't disagree with you man. However the higher aspect you go the more experience you need to handle them. So a relative newbie could be overwhelmed with a ozone edge for example.
had a student buy a quiver of edges for his first kites and he was very upset with how much they stalled all the time unlike his friends switchblades that he had been borrowing. (i had reccomended he get just 1 catalyst)
Doesn't a rebel 'free your ride' bahahahahahn I swear these marketing jockeys are running out of ideas. Then again maybe I'm the one running out of ideas.
I'm in the camp of free ride is a bit of everything hence my call is an open C bridled kite on whatever brand suites the feel you dig.
But then again look what Lou wainmen coujd do all those years ago on a non bridled (kill me if you can) C kite.
Select to expand quoteRussKraut said...
Can you define Freeride gentlemen?
For me this is everything but wave riding and freestyle (which includes Wakestyle).
I would not classify higher aspect kites as more advanced than mid/lower aspect kites. It just depends on your style of riding. I see a lot of beginners enjoying Rebels Edges etc as they are less sensitive to steering input and have sufficient grunt per se without having to produce it actively. They can't operate a fast moving kite yet properly and don't have a good sine technique (I am talking about bar in and out on down/upstroke) etc.
Flying a kite properly especially at its upper limit to get the maximum benefit out of it, yes, this is a different story, but on any kite.
For me Freeriding is doing a bit of everything including going big (I enjoy sending the kite c-kite style to get a fast high G force acceleration and vertical height with very limited tea bagging effect, and find kites which only require pulling the bar in to get airborne plain boring), looping, all sort of rotations w/ or w/o loops, dark slides, basic unhooked stuff, slashing some smaller waves both on tt and sb, riding fast and powered. Correct me if this is not freeriding.
Now, I enjoy both C kites as well as open c bridled kites as I find those kites very suitable to tick all the boxes and truly do a bit of everything. You can ride anything e.g. a Cat hard (even though a lot of Cat riders will propably mow the lawn most of their time only) as well and make it look very advanced.
So what I am trying so say is why categorizing kites. This is just manufacturers' marketing bs. Fly whatever makes you smile whether someone thinks it's the intended use or not
PS. RPM is almost identical in shape to a Cat (up to 2015) i.e. open C, hence would not list it among the big boosting delta higher aspect kites you listed.
There's a few others that fit the bill in that shape that arnt high aspect, in appearance,
Like theFx,and to me the switchblade has a similar appearance but somehow delivers decent performance, for my eye I wouldn't class the rpm in outline like the catalyst and certainly not in performance,
e
veryone to their own I guess, but for me a kite that has an overpowered feel ticks the boxes, i don't agree with some of the marketing bull but I do get influenced on watching a set rider on a set model, and your description of freeriding was spot on
From what I've felt on the beach in light winds and then observing a very experienced unstrapped wave kiter on the wrong setting, in over powered conditions in big waves, the Ozone Enduro V1 should be on this list.
I'll be bringing a 9M demo to Lancelin next week and Billy Hampton will be there with his quiver too.
Select to expand quotecauncy said..RussKraut said...
Can you define Freeride gentlemen?
For me this is everything but wave riding and freestyle (which includes Wakestyle).
I would not classify higher aspect kites as more advanced than mid/lower aspect kites. It just depends on your style of riding. I see a lot of beginners enjoying Rebels Edges etc as they are less sensitive to steering input and have sufficient grunt per se without having to produce it actively. They can't operate a fast moving kite yet properly and don't have a good sine technique (I am talking about bar in and out on down/upstroke) etc.
Flying a kite properly especially at its upper limit to get the maximum benefit out of it, yes, this is a different story, but on any kite.
For me Freeriding is doing a bit of everything including going big (I enjoy sending the kite c-kite style to get a fast high G force acceleration and vertical height with very limited tea bagging effect, and find kites which only require pulling the bar in to get airborne plain boring), looping, all sort of rotations w/ or w/o loops, dark slides, basic unhooked stuff, slashing some smaller waves both on tt and sb, riding fast and powered. Correct me if this is not freeriding.
Now, I enjoy both C kites as well as open c bridled kites as I find those kites very suitable to tick all the boxes and truly do a bit of everything. You can ride anything e.g. a Cat hard (even though a lot of Cat riders will propably mow the lawn most of their time only) as well and make it look very advanced.
So what I am trying so say is why categorizing kites. This is just manufacturers' marketing bs. Fly whatever makes you smile whether someone thinks it's the intended use or not
PS. RPM is almost identical in shape to a Cat (up to 2015) i.e. open C, hence would not list it among the big boosting delta higher aspect kites you listed.
There's a few others that fit the bill in that shape that arnt high aspect, in appearance,
Like theFx,and to me the switchblade has a similar appearance but somehow delivers decent performance, for my eye I wouldn't class the rpm in outline like the catalyst and certainly not in performance,
e
veryone to their own I guess, but for me a kite that has an overpowered feel ticks the boxes, i don't agree with some of the marketing bull but I do get influenced on watching a set rider on a set model, and your description of freeriding was spot on
Absolutely agree Cauncy it is all very personal hence my comment that manufacturers classification/recommendation are only of use for a certain target audience, but those who know what they want need to demo thoroughly.
I compared the two kites, RPM and Cat (2015 only, and the further development now being Enduro) as I have owned several sizes 2015 RPM, flown the 2015 Cat, and own Enduro 7 and 9 (and flown the 12). I also have a GTS3 and have flown the FX.
For me, hence I either owned or flown those kites, they are all somewhat similar in many ways. The RPM specifically is imho similar. The static grunt you may refer to is a fake one, it is just high bar pressure which implies grunt, but in fact the kite still needs to be flown actively to produce power (especially in smaller sizes as always). So for me this kite is in the same bucket at all of the above. And of course the Dice would possibly sit there as well, but I have only flown the 2014 and can't comment on the latest models. The Union as per their marketing should be in there as well but I simply did not like it. Again, personal choice.
You mentioned Switchblade. For me this is a totally different category, a very grunty truck, not very responsive, certainly not something I would classify as agile nifty machine one flies in a similar fashion to a C kite. All of the above CAN be flown in such manner and suit me well. Depending on which size is rigged up, and which settings are chose, those kites can also be flown the lazy sheet and go way, but only to some extend.
My 2c anyway, whatever works for the particular rider really. I used to boost and loop on wave kites because it's easy and harmless, so good for learning, but the limitations become obvious quickly. I can however see that some users like to use kites which are predominantly designed for a different style of riding. Who cares...
Select to expand quoteJlip9 said..
What is everyone's favorite kite for a good freeride day? I'm relatively new to the sport but have heard great things about the Switchblade?
Naish SLE Boxer 15m. An oldie, but sweet as kite. Better than my Flysurfers and Ozones
