If you have a Switchblade 2 or are thinking of buying a Switchblade 2 you may be interested in this post.
In this post I have only written down the facts only, since Cabrinha has warned me in a personal letter that any “Internet Slamming” that I did would be dealt with “appropriately.”
In November I purchased two Cabrinha Switchblade 2 (SB2) kites, sized 10 metres and 8 metres. I used the 10m kite over a period of approximately one month, with the kite performing really well.
After about a month of use, I was sailing the kite in a normal fashion when it suffered a catastrophic failure of the leading edge strut. This occurred as the kite was sheeted in from a de-powered position to a powered position. As the kite was sheeted on, the leading edge strut kinked in the centre of the kite (between the attachment points of the leading edge support bridles, directly in line with the pumping valve). The kite then folded backwards on itself in an ‘M-shape’ so that the top sides of the canopy touched. The kite then crashed into the water in a totally uncontrollable way, and could not be re-launched, since the kite would not resume its normal shape.
I subsequently inflated the kite to at least 6PSI, however, the kite folded in flight on three more occasions during the time it took for Cabrinha to agree to accept the kite for refund. With the kite inflated to 6PSI it resumed its shape once it had crashed into the water.
Cabrinha sent my kite back to Maui for investigation, and I borrowed a 10m SB2 demo kite from the store I bought the kite from. After approximately 1.5 hrs of riding, this kite folded in flight in the same way as mine had done. In the same session, this demo kite also folded while my wife was flying the kite. It dragged her into the air as the kite flew out of control and then crashed about two metres from a toddler on the beach. At this stage, we decided that we were no longer prepared to fly the 10m SB2’s.
While my kite was being investigated, I was able to sail the 8m SB2 more often. It soon folded in flight in the same way as the 10m. I contacted Cabrinha and asked to return the kite for refund.
The Australian Cabrinha representative stated in a letter to me that the folding problem “…occurs when the kite is flown aggressively through the power zone with a great deal of load and then sheeted out about halfway. The problem will not happen if the kite is fully sheeted out. Overall, the problem is fundamentally the same as what is commonly called ‘inverting’ and which can occur with many different brands’ kites. Specifically, ‘inverting’ is much more rare on the SB2 kites than, for example, the Crossbow 1 and at least a few other brands’ current and past season kite models.”
I and a number of other riders I know, like to fly our kites aggressively. We also like to sheet the kite on and off to control power. I have seen three other SB2 riders have the same ‘folding’ problem as me, however, it doesn’t happen to everyone.
I noted that the information in the quote above does not appear in the user manual, or in Cabrinha’s promotional material. This information would definitely have affected my decision to buy the SB2. I have now bought a North Rebel. It doesn’t fold up or invert when flown aggressively no matter what the sheeting position.
Cabrinha stated that through their investigations they had developed a bridle modification that would stop the kite folding in flight, and would not refund my purchase. I informed Cabinha that I did not have any confidence in the modification, and instead wanted a refund on the product. Cabrinha formally refused my request for refund.
My kite was with the dealer for a number of weeks before the modification was carried out. I am yet to try it out.
I am currently pursuing a refund on the 8m SB2 through the Department of Fair Trading.
hmm, interesting!
I haven't seen anything like that on my 12m, and I've been riding it since late dec and sheeting it in and out plenty, and in some pretty strong winds. I pump it pretty hard though.
Do you think it is a wear problem that the kite develops with age?
Can you give some more details of the circumstances in which the folding happenned? (eg windspeed, your weight, kite position in window, depower strap position, etc)
Would be good if the other SB2 riders on this forum can comment.
Jiminnewy you internet slammer,
You say that your kite suffered a catastrophic failure of the leading edge strut - and then you used it on 3 more occasions - how that did you manage that?
Just wondering if 6PSI is enough - I pump up my SB2's quite firm - don't use a gauge because they dont seem to work with a one way valve - but I look at near where the struts join the main bladder and pump till the wrinkles come out of this area when the kite is off the sand. The main bladder makes a drum sound when tapped and the struts are just 'quite firm'.
I have used my 12 and 8 quite a lot since they came out and haven't had any problems - am totally stoked with them. Fly quite steady on the bar and can't see why you would want to sheet them in and out aggressively - maybe I'm a cruiser?
I had the Crossbow 1 and had inversions and seam failure with them - but think that the changes made to the leading edge material have negated the seam failure and haven't had any inversions with the SB2.
Hope this doesn't happen to me - but from your 'review' it sounds like you are incredibly unlucky or you are doing something wrong or didn't pump up your kite - but thinking about it I had some sand in my valve in Samoa and was kiting the outer reef and did start to notice my kite acting a little differently and came in and it seemed almost like it had so little pressure in it - I couldn't believe it still stayed in shape in the air!
Maybe they fly better when you are not aggressive?!
PS
When I had trouble with my Crossbow leading edge failure, Cabrinha replaced my kite with a new one through the retailer ECB - they were very efficient and supportive.
Let us know how you go with the Department of Fair Trading - I have to deal with them with my work and they seem to be a bureaucratic machine that lighten your wallet significantly for a few bits of paper!
'internet slamming' wont help you get what you want and I doubt that the DFT will either.
I have a 10m SB2 and personally have never had this problem Jim. I inflate to 7.5 psi. My SB1 7m can invert & lose shape, but this is rare & most likely to happen when the kite is in the water and hit by a wave. I find the SB2 a great kite and would happily take that 8m off you at the right price. It will be interesting to see what happens with Fair trading.
p.s. I have no affliation with any shop or brand.
Hi, I also own a SB2 which i have had since november 06. Never had any problems with the kite at all, it always fly's very well in all conditions, never had it invert or fail in anyway that JimInNewy has described. The only thing that i have had happen that is close, is after pumping up the kite and launching in the air, i found that i did not tighten up the main air valve properly, so in mid flight the leading edge valve came loose and deflated the kite. Just pumped it back up and off i went. If anyone else has had this happen to them i recommend a little thread sealant tape on the valve works very well.
To reply to a few of the questions without getting into trouble from Cabrinha...
I loved the SB2 till it start to do the funky folding thing. If your riding style doesn't cause a problem, then sweet! You are probably stoked with the kite.
What I meant by 'catastrophic failure' was that the structure of the kite failed to hold the kite in the shape it was designed to hold. In my day-job as an engineer, we call this a ‘catastrophic design failure’. Sorry for using jargon. Note that the seams did not burst.
The folding thing happened to me when the kite was sent from one edge of the window to the other in the sheeted-off position, I edged hard against the kite and then sheeted back on. Folding usually happened with the kite near the centre of the window. The only variation on this was that the 8m kite failed while I was in the middle of a front roll. Ouch!
Depower strap position made no difference that I noticed. Pumping pressure made no difference, except that if I inflated the kite to 6PSI, then after folding, it would resume its shape once in the water. Wind strength made no difference that I noticed. I had the problem occur from around 18-20knts some time to 30knts the time the 8m failed. I didn't suffer any leakage of air from the front strut. I actually checked the pressure after some of the folding incidents to make sure no air had leaked out. This showed that the pressure was the same as when I started.
If you pump the kite slowly you can read the pressure, since the air entering the bladder holds the valve open. This is not highly accurate, but more accurate than guessing the pressure from flicking the bladder etc.
I suspect that the bridle may have stretched allowing this problem to occur, however, that is a guess only since I have no way of checking given that I don't know what the original lengths were.
For the record, the retail shop I purchased the kite from has done the right thing by me and given me excellent support. They are subject to approval by the Australian Cabrinha dealer when it comes to product returns.
To those that think I am doing something wrong with the kite, this is my fourth season, and I can hold my own. I am not a newbie.
Jim,
With regards your pumping! Firstly using a gauge does not give you any accuracy on how much you pump up your kites more a consistency everytime you pump. It is quite well known that the small gauges on pumps are only accurate to +/- 3psi (being an engineer you should be aware of tolerances). Also reading the gauge while pumping will give you a higher pressure than the pressure in the kite due to the restriction at the valve and nozzle (I agree that pumping slower will reduce this effect but if the pressure in the pump is greater than the pressure in the kite the one way valve will open, hence the pump pressure is always greater)
I'd rather flick a bladder and squeeze a strut, than rely on a gauge.
Jim
What sort of guage do you use? All the ones that I've seen are about as reliable as a $5 Rolex. I wish an engineer could design a good kite pump guage?
I failed engineering at uni - prefer to do things by feel. Karve is right about the squeeze strut test being far more accurate. So long as the air can freely inflate the struts you want them 'just firm'.
Inflatable kites are a lightweight 'structure' that need proper support - internal air pressure - to function properly. If kites were engineered like buildings, roads, and bridges etc, they would fly like lead balloons.
Catastrophic failure to me means that there was some permanent damage, when engineers have a catastophic failure surely it really is bad.
Don't know what I'm more peeved with - me failing engineering, engineers over engineering everything, or you bagging a fantastic kite!
joespencer, yes it is an 07 Switchblade 2, bought in 06 but a current 07 season kite. if that makes any sense
I have a 16 m 07 sb2 on laybuy at our local dealer- has anyone had problems with one of these?
I wanted it for the 10-18 knot days - 88kg intermediate rider.
I would have guessed that a larger arc (16 m vs 10 m) would be more deformable, and more prone to this type of failure (esp if the smaller kites are doing it)? any thoughts?
Joespencer,
I have 14m 07 sb2, and never had a problem at all with this kite
it is a great kite.
riding in 15 to 30 knots, surf and choppy water.
I have dumped it plenty of times no deformation & relaunches in seconds.
You may have already looked at this but...
One more thing to check would be the Bar line lengths, from what i've heard it's fairly common for them to stretch quite quickly on the new SB2's. It could be placing more stress on one bridle attachment than the others and thus causing it to fold easily. I've flown an SB2 with out of whack line lenghts and it was not impressive to fly, once they were trimmed properly it made a massive improvement. Would be interested to see if they could narrow down the specific cause for the problem on your kite. Maybe also compare the kites bridle lengths to one in your local shop?
Hey windup,
15 to 30 knots sounds like a great range for the 14- I'm guessing you're a fairly solid build ??!! What board do you ride at 15 knots?
What do you think would be maximum wind for a 16 m SB2 ? I would have probably guessed above 22 knots would be getting a bit crazy??
Joespencer,
I'm around 100kg's.
I only have one board it's a LF WLF140 X 46
i am looking at smaller boards at the moment, i need somethink that i can dig in on the windy days.
I am not shore on the top end of the 16M, i demoed the 14M contra and around 25knots was tops for me. The SB2 is better in the high winds, and you don't lose much on the bottom end.
Hey windup,
i'm at 88 kg's and riding the wlf LF 140x46 as well. I had it out yesterday in the surf on the Goldie, when it was blowing 23-28 knots (should have taken out my crazy fly 139x41 ).
It does get pretty bouncy, and difficult to hold an edge with when powered up and with the kite low. It is a very stiff board, as it was designed to be i guess. waves are no go , unless you watch for nose diving closely.
I'm looking at getting a 144x43 "cardboard" to replace it for the lighter wind days, and even the windier days in the surf.
I agree with neoniphon
quote:
I haven't seen anything like that on my 12m, and I've been riding it since late dec and sheeting it in and out plenty, and in some pretty strong winds. I pump it pretty hard though.
Hi Joe
I sell Cab kites in Sydney, there are 2 cab dealers here. JimInnewy did not buy his kite from me so cannot really comment on the problem other than to say I have seen nothing of this problem with hundreds of kite sold.
I use a 10M and 16M SB2 myself, regularly, my favourite is the 10M just because in the winds I use it in it is fast and I can do huge jumps with it.
The 16M is the kite to have for when you want to get going in light conditions, and I can still use in up to 20 knots maybe with gusts a little bit more than 20.
I have found the 16M and the 14m work much better with 60cm bars, maybe keep that in mind and look for a bar that is 60cm and rig it with all the Cab stuff.
I use an Ozone 06 Instinct bar, and have rigged it with 30M lines, awesome for bottom end.
If its windy the kites work ok on the stock 55cm bar, but are still better on a 60cm bar IMO.
Cya and
Goodwinds
Steve
quote:
Originally posted by joespencer
I have a 16 m 07 sb2 on laybuy at our local dealer- has anyone had problems with one of these?
I wanted it for the 10-18 knot days - 88kg intermediate rider.
I would have guessed that a larger arc (16 m vs 10 m) would be more deformable, and more prone to this type of failure (esp if the smaller kites are doing it)? any thoughts?
I have had a few foldups on my SB2 12. One was caused by being way under pressure (after I boasted how you don't have to pump them up super hard) and one during a very hot relaunch with the bar in.
I think 12 psi is not necessary. I put 70 pumps (one pump=down-up) and that is plenty hard enough. The LE pings nicely when flicked but it is not super-rock hard.
BTW. My mates and I agree that the SB2 is pretty much the "best" kite we have used. It never seriously misbehaves and is in as as-new condition after 50 hard hours continuous use. It's not super high performance but it does everything very well. For 2008 I would love a Crossbow with the straight 121 bar that the SB2 has.
JimInNewy, I have flown quite a few SB2s (6, 8, 10 and 12). The phenomena you described can happen much in the same way that kites can invert when there is no tension on the lines.
But it's pretty easy to avoid. As the CAB dealer described, it can happen when the kite is fully powered and you suddenly sheet out taking all the tension away from the lines (which help holding the kites shape).
Since I found out what can occasionally lead to that folding, I have never had a folding again. Similar to you, I was initially thinking if I should not look for a different kite, but after flying quite a few other bow options, I still preferred the overall performance of the SB2 over all other kites I have tried.
So, they ain't perfect, but they're pretty damn good!!!
I have SB2's and had no problem. I guess the best thing to do is not sheet out as much as you would when crashing on a c kite because they dont need it. I have had my 12 out in up to 30kts and just under 12 kts with no problems. I went from turbo diesels to SB2's because the TD's are heavy in lighter air and I love the way you can lock the SB2 bar and leave it flying there, yet still punch out if you have a problem. You can't punch out with the TD's if you have the stopper down.
Just keep one hand on the bar and some tension and all should be good.
Cheers,
No probs with my SB2 EXCEPT, last Sunday in the river at Cotton tree had a "catastrophic" failure. The main line that connects the front flying lines to the trim strap and through to the chicken loop (not sure of the acual name) broke. My kite is now free to fly off downwind by itself as the safety line just slid off when the other line let go. Very dangerous not only for my floating in the river, but also for any innocent bystanders on the beach on the other side of the river, not to mention my kite ending up in the trees. Lucky no damage to the kite, a boatie helped me to retrive. When I took it back to the shop I was treated well, they immeditally replaced the broken item and told me this is the THIRD such failure! I think the problem might be water staying under the plastic sheathing and rotting the rope (line), not sure, the kite is only 2 months old. Still love the kite, just surprised by this type of failure.
are you not supposed to keep pumpin til da pump won´t go down any more thats what I do had no problems did have a kite pop once though
I have to say that the SB2 is quite an impressive kite. I now have a 10, 12 & 14 in my stash of weaponary...
I have had my 14 'turn into an M shape', but this resulted from a front line detatching, which could/would result in many things....
One thing I wanted to inform the SB2 community is the following:
At my local over the past 4 weeks, there have been some 4 SB2's tear from the LE to rear seam right underneath the 2nd strut and also about 30cms along the LE causing a massive 'L' tear. The common group btwn all 4 events is that all of the kites landed in the H20 at very low speed.
As my 14 SB2 is about 3 months old, as was 2 other of the 4 kites, is there some sort of issue with a batch of SB2's from approx manufacture dates DEC06-JAN07??? If so, has anyone else had the same problem & what did CAB do in regards to a replacement kite??
I do not want to have to change brands, as from what each of us have found, the SB2 is a great all round kite, but do not want to have to chase down a replacement kite or have repaires done every 3-4 months..
JIM, I also agree that your problem could be more pressure related than anything else, as with most kites, they loose shape when under-inflated.
I too would like to see an engineer design a pressure gauge for the SB2 to help prevent such a problem.
Remember, 'Just Kite'......
Flogged an SB2 14 for an hr. or so today in light winds...managed to crash it, invert it, death spirl loop it.....all ok, what a truck, and the hang time is obscene
Sooooooooooo friggen sloooooooooooow, but hey had a blast.
Hey Gruezi
Grab a 60cm bar from somewhere and fit the Cab SB2 gear to it, then fly the kite again you will not beleive its the same kite!!!
They stuffed up with the bar size for these kites IMO, they need a 60cm and then they are awesome.
If an SB2 splits along the sewing line on the back of a strut, take it to an authorised Cabrinha dealer for potential warranty replacement.
Cya and
Goodwinds
Steve
STEVE
with the 60 cm bar was that on your 10 and did the kite kurn faster
thanks shane
Gruezi, if you used a Cabrinha bar - the one that is supplied with the kite it is 55cm, find a 60cm and then get back to us, makes a huge difference!
Sunami, no, I have only used the 60cm bar on a friends 14m and my own 16m SB2's. I have a 10M SB2 as well and I use the stock 50cm bar on that, which is perfect for that kite.
Cya and
Goodwinds
Steve
Now Steve, please trust me when I say I flew the kite with a 60cm bar.
I'm going to fly the 14m Contra tomorrow ...it is all so sad when there is no wind.
After 12m all kites just fly like crap, shouldn't be kiting any how because of cracked rib...but hey, sort of like being towed by a boat,..and certainly beats jogging.
