Have brought a 6m kite that has extra line (5m) attached.
Any knowledge of what this helps with? Lower wind range and less twitchy? or the opposite?
Seriously if anyone can explain the theory behind having different line lengths I'm interested?
Have heard that longer lines are good for light winds as you have the kite higher in the sky (a little more wind up higher) plus get a longer power stroke, but then also told that longer line will slow down the turning speed of your kite which is not good in light winds.
(Why would longer lines slow your kite?)
Also heard, the really short lines are good for teaching!
Longer lines have more drag and are also heavier.
Both of which somewhat mute or make vague the control you feel at the bar.
So the impression is that the kite turns slower because the muted response adds lag to the control system so that your kite takes longer to do as you ask.
The single hardest part of learning a kite is to learn the delay that the kite has as you have to time all actions to work together, anything that amplifies that delayed response makes learning harder.
It's like driving an old turbo car, some race cars had up to 4 seconds of lag to the throttle response under some conditions leading to the bizarre consequence off booting the throttle as you are still braking into a corner so as to have the power come on as you need it to accelerate out of the corner.
Kiting is all about timing, differing length lines alter how the kite responds to inputs so changing the timing.
Longer lines also allow the kite to build up a higher speed before it needs to be turned so higher speeds equal larger turning circle, you can't just change that extra momentum immediately, so feels slower turning.
Also delivers higher power due to faster speed so that the sineing impulse power is higher than it's steady state flight, this bigger difference makes teaching harder because the kite can surprise with large amounts of power once it gets up to speed.
A bigger kite on shorter lines will have a lower impulse to steady state difference, so less surprises, even though both setups may deliver the same peak power.
But I could be totally wrong as really I am clueless beginner.
Extra line length helps you to safely dump the kite into the dunes or bushes as most beaches are less than 30m wide. And it helps optimising hot launches as the person launching you is far enough away to not see your signs or hear you and launches when and where he thinks is appropriate. When self launching, the extra line length helps picking up more branches and sea grass etc tangling up in your lines which makes it more fun. When relaunching, longer lines will fetch more sea grass making relaunches more challeinging hence more fun.
And yes you will get a better low end and more stable i.e. less responsive kite as well. 5m is not going to make a massive difference, try 10m.
Longer lines give you a bigger wind window so a larger power stroke and are better for bigger kites and lighter wind. Because the wind window is bigger and lines are longer a kite on longer lines will react slower.
Shorter lines will make the kite faster (less distance to travel across wind window) but will limit wind range as power stroke is shorter.
Longer bar will make kite more responsive as greater differential between steering lines for the same angle (moment of movement, I think long time since I did trigg at school) and that's generally why you find longer bars on bigger kites
Shorter bar will slow a small kite for the same reason.
Ozone now do about 4 bar lengths and 15, 20, 23, 25 , and 27m lines, plus 2.5 and 5 m extension sets
North do 3 bar lengths including the wake bar which is only 42cm on its widest and 35cm on its narrow setting,small 49/42 and large 53/46.
Plus 19, 22, 24, and 27m. The small bar comes on 19 or 22 m and the large on 24 or 27m
The general consensus is 19 for radical loops, 22 for wave, 24 freeride and 27 lightwind/race
Our old school manger swore by 30m lines on a 17m core X-R in 10 knots but it was sloooow!
^^ this, but don't get locked into the mentality of "argh, I'm free riding so I will ride nothing but 24m lines". Some kite just like having longer lines...or shorter.
Hi Bobin,
It's not common for such small kites to come with line extensions.
The important questions here are: What kite is it? What style of kiting are you into and what's the length of your lines on your bar without extensions?
If the lines you have on your bar are 19m long then it would make sense to have a set of 5m extensions (19+5 = 24m). However if your lines are of a ''usual'' 24m length then adding these extensions is just about pointless as you will most likely never use a 6m kite in light winds. Lines shorter than 24m on small kites are usually an advantage and more fun in the waves in strong winds: more direct turning and quicker travel through the window when changing direction. Some advanced freestyle kiters like short lines for sharper kiteloops with less drag....basically it comes down to personal preference so the best thing to do is to try it yourself.
About short lines for teaching, the benefit here is really mostly about safety if flying on the beach. Having a very small wind window reduces the risk of getting dragged through the power zone, crashing on other people or in obstacles, etc. It's also a great for any kiter to learn to adapt and feel how the kite reacts (timing) to various line lengths.
Regarding adding line extensions for light wind benefits, I found this comment below from Steve to be the most accurate in my experience: Select to expand quoteTerryMcTool said..
Longer lines, increase the size of the wind window, so the kite takes longer to travel through the power zone part of the wind window. So it does not produce more power on longer lines, it produces the same power for longer, which can give you a few knots, at most, better bottom end. You need to use at least 5-10M extensions on 25M lines to make it work.
Downside is the amount of room you need to launch and land safely, and in the surf they are a definitely a disadvantage, relaunching can take a lot longer if you drop the kite at the edge of the window.
Every kiter should see what happens to their kite when they put longer lines on, just so you understand the wind window better.
I have seen Jordan from Sydney at the windless nationals in Townsville a few years back stay upwind in around 7-10 knots on a 17 Edge with about 50M lines. Have also seen Lachlan Beed from Newcastle when we were in Vaunatu years ago 47M of kite (19/15/13 stacked) and about 45M of lines hold ground in about 7/8 knots. I've also land buggyed on 60M lines and once achieved 2+ times wind speed on a slightly downwind reach, people everywhere told me I was deluded, but now kites and foils are doing just that.
Long lines is an interesting thing to experience, but they are not magical and line drag eventually overcomes any gain and then you can only go downwind.
I would add that if you're not interested in kiting below 15 knots on light wind specific boards, line extensions are just about pointless as the pro's will easily be outweighed by the con's.
Recently I had a custom 35m lines bar made out of thin race lines, which greatly reduces the drag effect you'd have from long lines of a bigger diameter. These lines allow me to kite at least 2 knots below my usual lower limit on the hydrofoil. When you kite below 10 knots on a light wind board, the most difficult part is to generate enough power during the water start to get planing and generate apparent wind, this is when long lines serve their best purpose. Once you are up and going at speed, longer lines really stop being useful, unless of course the wind drops and you need to send the kite again.
Yes, you may have stronger wind up higher, but to feel a noticeable difference with this, you would need to have very long lines, i.e 50m + !
On this pic was an experiment with a 17m kite with 48m lines in 6 to 8 knots... Now with my 35m bar on thin race lines I can achieve better results and have much better upwind performance in the same winds. Thin lines were my biggest discovery this season. I even had a 60 kg friend ride comfortably on a twin tip with a 12m kite on the 35m race bar in shallow water with 10 knot winds when I myself couldn't get going with the same gear...
Get out there and play with line length !
Christian
This might help for free ride old school.
6m I use 22m lines. Usually in the surf during winter.
10m I use 24m lines for free ride (board off, looping, general stuffing around on the water surface trick stuff). 27m if doing old school stuff mainly. Sometimes 22 if the swell is really big in winter but not often or I just want to loop...
13m flies much better on 27m lines (read previous posts) and use it for old school. 24m lines now and then if in ocean (and there is swell) and need a slightly more reactive kite.
If light and on the nugget definetly 27m lines on the 13.
