Hey!
Got a EPIRB for when I am out at sea and things go wrong alone. Have flares and inflating life jacket for big trips out at sea, but WHAT insurance do I /we need to cover the cost for a marine rescue from a police launch, helicopter, ship that changes course?
Will AKSA third party cover it?
Travel Insurance cover it - domestic?
Or need some from YA or another provider?
Thanks
An EPIRB? Holy sh-t, how far out do you go?!
Good question 're insurance... would like to know what others have for cover too.
Surely this is a joke....
EPIRBs are for emergencies .... Don't kite further out than you are prepared to swim... If you are doing a crossing or some other adventure make your own safety arrangements ie: chase boat.
The last thing the sport needs is some muppet on the news being rescued by the coast guard or helicopter (at the Tax payers expense Even if it's just perceived ) after pulling an EPIRB all because they wanted kite too far out to sea for no apparent reason.
I donk think people want the insurance premiums increased either.
I just see myself in the future with a rego number on the kite & board and a cop-style jacket with flares,epirb first aid kit and 'couse a hefty insurace and rego bill per year.
On the bright side....if you loose your board you will get it back in no time.....
picker....where are you kiting??????
Are you attempting a Tasman Crossing to KIWI land????
cs
A boat is designed for extended periods on the water.... and for venturing out to sea ....A kite is not.
If the wind drops and you are in the boat you are not in dire straits... If gear breaks on a yacht or boat generally you are still relatively safe. Ou can even spend the night if the need dictates.
If gear breaks or wind drops whilst kiting you are in the water and at the mercy of the elements... have a quick look at immersion survival times and you will see how dangerous being in the water can be.
To kite far out to see just for a thrill is not an adventure, you are not exploring or achieving anything it's just selfish, puts rescuers at risk ...and for what ?
Moist peeps should be able to swim 3 - 4km back to shore. Not sure how far you are going out. Beyond 5km in WA on a kite or windsurfer is breaking the law isn't it? I don't even know if you're being serious, but if you are then your behaviour/attitude is moronic. Aside from the $$ involved in rescuing you, there actually might be someone genuinely in need of rescuing, but can't be because the rescue services are too busy trying to rescue your stupid ar$e.
Nice replies from the agro front.
Guy was asking a question.
If you disagree with the concept, how about a balanced reply instead of name calling and agro?
Geez this forum is full of knockers lately.
Why not have an EPIRB they are not just for boats and do save lives.
The rescue services would rather have GPS coordinates to navigate too than spend hours doing grid sweeps of the ocean after a flare was sighted or they get a report of someone in trouble.
Of course they shouldn't be set off unless you feel you are in real danger.
People carry epirb's when hiking in remote areas etc, do the knockers think maybe those people shouldn't carry them or that they should stick to the local footpaths?
Picker a few of us set off on a bit of a down wind kiting adventure on Sunday, we didn't have an EPIRB but we did have flares, PFDs and a couple of waterproof VHF radios, non of which was we had to use but I wouldn't have attempted the trip without.
Portable VHF radios are a great option that are not that expensive and are convenient because you can use them without setting off a full scale search but maybe just to alert authorities that things aren't going quite to plan so that they can monitor your progress etc.
Not sure about your insurance question though.
Yeah these guys are completely closed minded and only thinking one dimensional.
what about a down winder? you might be close to shore. but in a remote location.
What if your within swimming distance but you injure yourself and can't swim? do you deserve to die because your a kiter? no.
An epirb is a great idea for adventure kiting.
Remember without those adventurous crazy wierdo's picking up a stunt kite and trying to power themselves on water skis kitesurfing would never exist.
Surfzup, I consider myself a fairly good swimmer that would be able to make it back from a few K's offshore no worries but I nearly drowned once only a couple of hundred meters off the coast down near Margaret River (Three Bears) when big swell created a horrendous rip and I snapped my leggie and lost my board.
**** happens best to be prepared.
Every boat that goes to Rotto has an EPIRB but they are hardly ever set off, just because you are carrying one doesn't mean you have to use it.
I was a FSR skipper and whilst I would have preferred it if people didnt doo anything stupid or get in trouble, if you are going to attempt anything with risk involved I would have preferred you to have one as I'm sure most would.
I disagree and I will leave it at that.
Edit: actually I won't leave it at that because that sounds wrong when I re read it, I disagree with the fact that there is no place for EPIRB's on kiters.
You are never going to stop people pushing the boundaries and so if they are I feel it is better that they are prepared.
Yes they shouldn't just be heading miles out to sea for the sake of it and no they shouldn't rely on an EPIRB to save them, there are lots of other options that should be used first hence the reason I mentioned VHF radios, but I believe it is a good idea to have one as a last resort if you are doing something that you know has risks involved.
Your average Sunday arvo kiter def should not have one.
If you set of an EPIRB under genuine circumstances a rescue won't cost anything but if you end up in the back of an ambulance afterwards in WA you won't get change out of $1000. If you set of an EPIRB cos you're a dick or malicious I believe there are mechanisms in place to try and recover costs through the courts. No insurance will cover that.
If you set of an epirb and its not a genuine life threatening situation, your in for a world of hurt.i cant remember the figures but by the time they send out a chopper etc it all adds up
Being stuck 1km offshore is not life threatening but if your that worried carry a radio (and learn the rules) or why not a personal locator beacon which is a much smaller option designed for adventurers.
Radio is the safest way though.
OK, there have been a lot of issues lately with EPIRBs - old ones are accidentally activating in landfill and setting off a response for one. Hikers are using them for accidents that they could hike out from, or someone could have walked to the top of a feature and used their mobile phone.
I think they are totally inappropriate for kitesurfing.
1. If you are that far out from shore or in a remote area you shouldn't be alone. You need a support boat. And you need a support boat that can deal with a range of conditions (So your Dad's 15foot Haines Hunter isn't going to cut it)
2. The time to respond to an EPIRB is measured in days, not hours. It's not like calling 000 and the ambulance comes. In fact, it's probably better to carry a phone in a waterproof pouch for kitesurfing long distances.
This is how the EPRIB works:
The signal gets picked up by a satellite and relayed to a global control room. The nearest relevant emergency authority is then notified. The EPRIB does not precisely locate you (only puts you in a general area) so they have to send out a plane with an EPRIB receiver to locate you. They would then drop you a raft. If a helicopter is close enough, they can send that out afterwards. All the while you are bobbing around in the ocean on top of your rolled up kite (hope you remembered how to do a deep water packdown!). Hopefully you are lucky and the weather doesn't turn so nasty they can't get a helicopter out to you or the wind turns mad offshore and you end up floating to Antarctica.
The only application I can see them being useful for in water sports is offshore ocean racing. And those yachts are set up with more safety gear than you could reasonably carry. And even then it can be hit and miss.
^^^^^ couldnt agree more you beat me to it
and I think few of you are missing the point........... a kite is not an appropriate craft for venturing far out to sea...
I personally have an EPIRB (I take it when sailing ( ocean ) as a backup as there is one permanently in the boat ) I have never had to use it as the yacht is a purpose built craft for going out to sea...... we have had gear breakages and have had to use the motor to limp to port, we have had to use a sea anchor overnight before being able to conduct repairs to rigging. I would only use the EPIRB when all other avenues have failed and it is a matter of life or death... eg: you have no other forms of communication and or you are in the life rafts and adrift
I also take the EPIRB in my 4x4 but again we also have a UHF and HF radios and travel with another vehicle when in remote areas eg:The Simpson etc.... We also carry enough water and food should we need to stop for a few days to conduct repairs.... again have never had to use the EPIRB and could only imagine using it in an emergency ie : remote car accident and no other forms of communication.
An EPIRB is not a primary form of communication it is a locating beacon for an emergency only. If you go to sea you have to take a certain responsibility for your situation. On a kite far offshore broken gear or a drop of wind means an immediate emergency.
If you are kiting out at sea you have no ability to care for an injury, you presumably have no food and or limited water and are completly exposed.... imagine someone riding a pushbike out into the simpson desert with no water, no food no tent just carrying an EPIRB you would think they were an idiot.
The reference to hikers completely misses the point......You would have food, water and shelter and could survive extended periods of time even with a serious injury ie: broken leg.
Other issues include : EPIRBs have been known to fail, a rescue could take many many hours...... ( how long will you survive immersed in the water ).
Im not against adventure Im all for it and have done plenty of it... but Im about doing it properly and being prepared. If you venture far away you must be properly prepared which means an appropriate vehicle or craft fit for the purpose, ( a kiteboard is not an appropriate craft for travelling at sea) and be prepared to have some sort or self rescue or contingency plan.
By all means if you want to attempt some sort of crossing on a kite ie: Tassie to Victoria as some have done make your own arrangements for a rescue/chase boat and take every precaution. An EPIRB should not be your primary form of communication it is last resort.
Rant Over 
I think the problem with kitesurfing is that it's an accessible extreme sport and it's not subject to the same controls as other extreme sports. Most of the extreme sports (base jumping, paragliding etc) have some form of controls around it ensuring people have adequate levels of training before doing anything. Watch a paraglider setup and you'll see how many checks they go through. People see base jumpers hurling themselves off buildings without realising how many checks and balances they go through before doing it (right day, right conditions, training etc). Scuba divers have buddy systems, etc. With kiting this doesn't happen so there isn't the same level of risk mitigation, people just do and worry about the problems later. Megaloop over 5cm deep water? Hey, why the hell not, sure there is knee deep water 50m from shore but that doesn't look nearly as cool. It's not to say we shouldn't be pushing the sport to the extreme, it's just to say we shouldn't be stupid about it because any incidents have the potential to push the sport into the public eye on a negative level. Sea rescues are seen as an unnecessary waste of money and resources and it's these kinds of actions that could see kiters forced to wear PFD's, helmets and other safety devices that we don't want. I don't know about you, but I sure as hell don't want to be kiting with a PFD, Helmet, Flares, or another 20kg's of weight I don't need.
Again, I re-iterate, it's not to say don't do these things, but do them in a controlled environment (which is what other extreme sports are good at). As an example, some of the Vic guys are organising a kite across the bay (70km's) but they have the coast guard, rescue boats involved to make sure it's done safely. They've done the event as a charity event for cancer to get positive publicity and for a good cause so there are ways to ensure you do things in a positive way without putting people at risk.
When people talk about EPIRB's with relation to kites I think most actually mean a PLB, is this what you have Picker?
www.liveabout.com/best-epirb-or-plb-to-buy-2747223
www.transport.wa.gov.au/imarine/19164.asp
Going by this site, you should have one if over 2nm from shore (among other situations).
I haven't seen an official mention made as to whether kiters should or shouldn't be that far out and doesn't explicitly state that kiters shouldn't carry one.
PLBs are discouraged for water use though.
However common sense, planning and alternatives should avoid having to use one as stated on the page.
"When to activate a distress beacon
Distress beacons are for use only in life-threatening situations. In the event of an emergency, you should first signal other people in your area using radios or other methods of attracting attention."
I think Saffer's, Harry's and my posts sum it all up really.
And before anyone says "If everyone had your attitude, no adventurous things would happen" what you fail to realise is that the greatest adventure successes (and survival stories in the event of failure) come at the end of sustained planning and preparations. Discussing the possible problems and creating contingencies to deal with problems.
An EPIRB is not a contingency. A support boat capable of dealing with rough weather is a contingency. Extra food and warm clothing are contingencies. A Marine radio and mobile phone. Ensuring you don't venture too far off shore and can swim (I ensure this by swimming (2 -3 km, 2-3 times a week). A decent first aid kit and someone who can use it.
In the case of kitesurfing long distances, an EPRIB, in my opinion AT BEST gives you a false sense of security. You're no different than a swimmer in the open water.
Lets a consider a scenario:
1. You're kitesurfing and the wind drops out. You pack down your gear and start to swim for shore. You're not far from shore when a strong offshore breeze kicks in. You swim against it for a while but realise you're getting exhausted and you're not getting any closer to the shore. You can either stay with your kite and deploy your EPIRB or ditch your gear and swim in. Two difficult choices. You decide to stay with your kite and deploy your EPIRB, because you are shattered. The local authorities get notified. It's now after dark so they decide to wait until first light to send out a plane. By the time they start searching you've been in the water for over 12 hours drifiting away from shore and are completely exhausted. The cold of the water gets to you. You have hypothermia.
The rescue plane takes 4 hours the next day to find you - you're essentially a speck in the ocean and because they had no mayday call they don't know what they are looking for. They can't contact you because you have no radio.
You fall off your kite and fall asleep. YOU'RE DEAD. The rescue operation becomes a recovery operation. Assuming there is something left to recover.
That's a scenario where initially you hadn't sustained an injury. What if you had broken something? Assuming you didn't black out from the pain, things aren't looking any better for you, except you probably would have deployed the EPIRB sooner.
Ok I said I wasn't but couldn't resist.
Everyone anti Epirb for kites is assuming that you are miles out to sea.
Most long Kitesurf adventures are along the coast.
Perth to Lancelin has been done before and no doubt will be done again, I also know of kite trips for hundreds of kilometers along remote stretches of the South coast.
Perhaps they shouldn't be doing it but they did.
So if we are talking senarios how about you have first aid kits, radios, flares, phones, food, water, have let people know your route etc but you have broken your leg and are on a beach somewhere miles from the nearest town with no radio or phone reception.
It is then that I would be glad to have a Epirb and I would use it.
