Forums > Kitesurfing General

We are our own worst enemy....

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Created by Juddy > 9 months ago, 3 Jan 2012
windsufering
VIC, 1124 posts
3 Jan 2012 7:32PM
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never the kiter fault

Elroy Jetson
WA, 706 posts
3 Jan 2012 6:00PM
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That's unbelievable Juddy! It's just not right I tells ya.

The wind is cranking 25 - 30 knots outside and your stuck, sitting down in a beachside cafe for most of the arvo.

stabber
NSW, 1114 posts
3 Jan 2012 9:09PM
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I've said it before...."if I had a dollar for every tosser " .....I'd be a millioanaire twice over again....

keep surfin
WA, 40 posts
3 Jan 2012 6:13PM
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I agree, we need to sort our ** out quickly, if not we may be in big trouble

The other day me and my 9 year old son was out swimming in the flags at Brighton (Scabs) when 3 dudes doing a DWer decided to buzz us in the flags. One of them, a old guy lost momentium and stopped in the flags a few meters away from where me and my young fella was swimming.

He was having dramas getting going and It looked like it possibly was going to end in tears. I got between him and shielded my son as the old dude looked like he was struggling. It was potentially quite a heavy situation as the dude was basically trying to water start 2-3 meters up wind of us and it looked liked the wind just dropped out. ( I reckon that situation would potentially scare the ** out of a non kite surfer person).

Anyway I shouted out at the Noddy to not kite in the flags... I think he got the message, I hope he reminded his other Noddy mates.


In the time I was at the beach I also counted at least 2-3 other people kite through the flags....

I hate the idea or regulations etc but I now think it may be the go.

dogfish
NT, 255 posts
3 Jan 2012 9:52PM
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i don't get this 'ride thru swimmers' caper. saw a couple of tools (a blue and a green slingy, one a fuel) at nth scarb on NY, working the waves, leaving less than a metre's leeway as they carved thru swimmers.

there's miles of ocean, uninhabited apart from the odd GW, and stretches of unused beach.

WTF for endanger other beach users? go round them you dicks!

& imho DW's ease the congestion. all it takes is an ounce of courtesy. prob is, our culture is increasingly besotted by FU self-interest.

the authorities' default will be bans, not registration. AKSA should be pushing the registration option to keep kiting legit (just like other powered water craft) otherwise the door will slam in our face.

Subculture
443 posts
3 Jan 2012 9:12PM
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dogfish said...

i don't get this 'ride thru swimmers' caper. saw a couple of tools (a blue and a green slingy, one a fuel) at nth scarb on NY, working the waves, leaving less than a metre's leeway as they carved thru swimmers.

there's miles of ocean, uninhabited apart from the odd GW, and stretches of unused beach.

WTF for endanger other beach users? go round them you dicks!

& imho DW's ease the congestion. all it takes is an ounce of courtesy. prob is, our culture is increasingly besotted by FU self-interest.

the authorities' default will be bans, not registration. AKSA should be pushing the registration option to keep kiting legit (just like other powered water craft) otherwise the door will slam in our face.


It's a sad fact that what you say is so true dogfish - "prob is, our culture is increasingly besotted by FU self-interest." is exactly the size of it.

I'm starting to think the registration option in some form will ultimately be the only saving option. I agree, it should be getting some serious thought before councils get the big hammer out. Yes, the guys who believe in freedom of the beaches etc don't want it happening but when you're dealing with selfish pricks such as are coming into, trying out the sport, blowing through, (pun intended!) what other option is there?

terminal
1421 posts
3 Jan 2012 9:36PM
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It may be that the best damage limitation is to try to create a situation where the kiters guide the control legislation. It depends on whether legislation is inevitable.

The simplest solution for non-kiter legislators is a complete ban in certain areas. Its much easier to enforce that than to judge whether a kiter is riding safely or dangerously.

As time goes on, I expect kiters will become even more isolated and basically be without support from any other group, unless that group was being grouped with kiters, and even then (if it was windsurfers) they may well just try to ungroup themselves.

Fortunately there haven't been many accidents where members of the public have been badly injured so far, and that's about the only good thing. If that changes, a lot of things will change.

theDoctor
NSW, 5785 posts
4 Jan 2012 12:48AM
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stabber said...

I've said it before...."if I had a dollar for every tosser " .....I'd be a millioanaire twice over again....


Specially if you lived in a house of mirrors.......

heyjoe
WA, 26 posts
3 Jan 2012 10:27PM
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I agree, something must be done, unfortunately I am not in a position of power...

My humble request to those in power, directing the future of our amazing sport/recreation/hobby/pass time;
Please don't penalize those of us that take responsibility for our own actions by making sure we know the rules,
making sure we assess the conditions and location and equipment,
making sure we keep ourselves and OTHERS safe,
And essentially keeping our commonsense and logic intact whilst ripping it up and having the time of our lives...
(all the stuff you are taught in your lesson..NO.1 being safety)

Instead;
Find a way of penalizing those of us that are the opposite to the above, whom plead ignorance despite being human and from planet earth like the rest of us that make the effort.

tgladman
WA, 500 posts
3 Jan 2012 10:56PM
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heyjoe said...

I agree, something must be done, unfortunately I am not in a position of power...

My humble request to those in power, directing the future of our amazing sport/recreation/hobby/pass time;
Please don't penalize those of us that take responsibility for our own actions by making sure we know the rules,
making sure we assess the conditions and location and equipment,
making sure we keep ourselves and OTHERS safe,
And essentially keeping our commonsense and logic intact whilst ripping it up and having the time of our lives...
(all the stuff you are taught in your lesson..NO.1 being safety)

Instead;
Find a way of penalizing those of us that are the opposite to the above, whom plead ignorance despite being human and from planet earth like the rest of us that make the effort.




Well said joe.

NoBS
WA, 908 posts
4 Jan 2012 12:13PM
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easily recognisable Waksa comitte members with a fistful of flyers should do the trick..

You would think....

Or is it that hard?

Juddy
WA, 1103 posts
4 Jan 2012 5:14PM
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NoBS said...

easily recognisable Waksa comitte members with a fistful of flyers should do the trick..

You would think....

Or is it that hard?


Mate, it's not that hard really. Some of the new guidelines maps with all 10 location maps have been being handed out at beaches over the past month or so. Guy Singleton (regular @ Melville) has been doing a stand up job distributing flyers @ Melville. The maps are also available from all kiting shops around Perth.

Why don't you jump on board & help us out at your local? PM me & I'll hook you up with some. It's not that hard I can promise you....

wdric
NSW, 1625 posts
4 Jan 2012 11:39PM
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PelicanPete said...


Confiscate it!



If the clubbies where allowed to do this with kites passing though the flagged area and it happened to a few during the the season I believe word would spread way quicker be very effective.

The message would be spread over every communication medium we use quicker and cheaper than anything tried before it



PelicanPete
QLD, 67 posts
5 Jan 2012 1:11AM
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wdric said...

PelicanPete said...


Confiscate it!



If the clubbies where allowed to do this with kites passing though the flagged area and it happened to a few during the the season I believe word would spread way quicker be very effective.

The message would be spread over every communication medium we use quicker and cheaper than anything tried before it



Even if the clubbies just tried to confiscate it, the word would travel pretty quickly. Chase them on a jet ski or something....

Hold-down
32 posts
5 Jan 2012 10:04AM
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Juddy said...

NoBS said...

easily recognisable Waksa comitte members with a fistful of flyers should do the trick..

You would think....

Or is it that hard?


Mate, it's not that hard really. Some of the new guidelines maps with all 10 location maps have been being handed out at beaches over the past month or so. Guy Singleton (regular @ Melville) has been doing a stand up job distributing flyers @ Melville. The maps are also available from all kiting shops around Perth.

Why don't you jump on board & help us out at your local? PM me & I'll hook you up with some. It's not that hard I can promise you....


Mutual kudos buddy!

As always, Melville crew should feel free to PM me for more pamphlets. I should have some more shortly...




cramhobart
TAS, 61 posts
5 Jan 2012 5:06PM
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Where I live there is no kite stores, until very recently no one giving lessons (the guy that does now only does on weekends), and a crew of less than 50 kiters for the state. All this adds up to making kiting quite difficult to get into...
And we don't seem to have any of the problems I read about on these forums.
When people ask me about kiting I say " don't bother its expensive dangerous and you need a pilots license". Maybe if kites had less depower, and no-one taught people how to learn safely??

Flame on

bolgo
WA, 906 posts
5 Jan 2012 2:35PM
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Cottesloe Council has a 200m offshore exclusion zone for ALL WATERCRAFT

Went thru this several yrs ago with "phonebox" issue

There was one particularly miffed ranger out to get kiters banned full stop from cott

some lobbying led to WAKSA tags needed to kite south cott and leeway is given to surfcraft and windsurfers anyway

died quietly off, but just need another zealous "cop" ( this guy would photograph and video) and its all over for kiters in some areas - cant say i care if kiting gets banned in some spots as the public needs some protection

same old same old
only back then we all knew each other and toed the party line - still got my tags on the old harness

tightlines
WA, 3501 posts
6 Jan 2012 11:20PM
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the walks said...

Smithy said...

Seems like you guys in the west are really being tested this year!!

Any signs put up will need to be double sided and big ass sized otherwise the dicks doing the down winders through the swimmers will not even see them.

The other thing that you might consider is printing off a heap of coastal maps marked with relevant kiting details and stick them on the wind screens of kiter cars in the car parks. Include your association logos and maybe the clubby logo to make them look official. Let the clubbies know what you are up to and get their buy in. It can't hurt to show that we are at least trying to self regulate. If push comes to shove it could make the difference between a ban or no ban.


All of the above has been done, even had a cockhead on a bws continue past the signed zone, into swimmers at mullaz on saturday. The second time he did it a polite word was had, his response was "never kitered here before" FFS......
We're running out of idea's
Hate to say it but maybe rego's are the way to go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sounds like the same guy that i have had words to before but he was there again today (10mtr BWS) kiting North of the zone, I thought the fact that the MSLSC patrol vehicle was parked right next to the sign watching might have made him think about staying in the zone but no.

I spoke to someone a few days ago that was North of the zone.
I said if you were given the choice of kiting in a zone or not kiting at Mullaloo at all what would you chose? he answered the zone.
I said well that is the choice we were given so why are you kiting here, answer well there is not many people around and I know what I am doing............
He may know how to kite but I really don't think he knows what he is doing.

the walks
WA, 448 posts
7 Jan 2012 1:09AM
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tightlines said...

the walks said...

Smithy said...

Seems like you guys in the west are really being tested this year!!

Any signs put up will need to be double sided and big ass sized otherwise the dicks doing the down winders through the swimmers will not even see them.

The other thing that you might consider is printing off a heap of coastal maps marked with relevant kiting details and stick them on the wind screens of kiter cars in the car parks. Include your association logos and maybe the clubby logo to make them look official. Let the clubbies know what you are up to and get their buy in. It can't hurt to show that we are at least trying to self regulate. If push comes to shove it could make the difference between a ban or no ban.


All of the above has been done, even had a cockhead on a bws continue past the signed zone, into swimmers at mullaz on saturday. The second time he did it a polite word was had, his response was "never kitered here before" FFS......
We're running out of idea's
Hate to say it but maybe rego's are the way to go !!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sounds like the same guy that i have had words to before but he was there again today (10mtr BWS) kiting North of the zone, I thought the fact that the MSLSC patrol vehicle was parked right next to the sign watching might have made him think about staying in the zone but no.

I spoke to someone a few days ago that was North of the zone.
I said if you were given the choice of kiting in a zone or not kiting at Mullaloo at all what would you chose? he answered the zone.
I said well that is the choice we were given so why are you kiting here, answer well there is not many people around and I know what I am doing............
He may know how to kite but I really don't think he knows what he is doing.



lets hope he does it again tomorrow, camera will be at hand so all of s/b will see him

echunda
VIC, 764 posts
7 Jan 2012 12:23PM
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From an outsider who doesn't kite, coudos for identifying that there are idiot kiters (there are idtiots in every sport, look at dirtbikes) out there and you all are activly seeking ideas in educating these people the correct ediquete of the water sport.


Well done, I hope any outcome of this thread will turn into reality and minimise the negative impact kiting has had to the shoreline of Australia.

jackforbes
WA, 530 posts
8 Jan 2012 12:33AM
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Surfy31 said...

IMO there should be big permanent signs near the foot paths and car parks at every kiting spot in Perth. Melville leighton north cott city beach scarbs pinnas etc are all getting busier with the newly enthused kiters keen to get a piece of the action


...and then some clown will wrap their kite around the sign when they walk up to land it on the grass amongst the kiddies. But yes, something that spells out the rules so the 'I haven't kited here' excuse doesn't wash...

I think the yellow shirt is a great idea - it would give the general public someone to vent to/find out about kiting, we can help out the clubbies by sorting out kiters who are clowning about in their space, and as there would be someone around to help out with a launch or in an emergency, it makes for an easy way to control where most people launch/land (eg away from people and flags). I'd be happy to volunteer my time for that.

If it does come down to registration numbers for kites, I'd like to claim '7' and '9' for my kites, and 6'2" for my board. 6, 8 and 10 can join me for downwinders if conditions permit and I have checked your registration is current on the WAKSA site (for insurance reasons, I hope you understand...)

mbucat
WA, 19 posts
16 Jan 2012 10:29AM
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Juddy said...


I'm referring to stupid, ignorant, and dangerous kiters who flagrantly kited too close to shore, too close to swimmers, and into and then through the surf club flagged area in front of North Cottesloe SLSC yesterday. I was at lunch from 1.00pm to after 4.00pm, and had as close a view to the action as possible. I had to give up counting the number of kiters doing downwinders who kited into & through the flagged area.

The North Cott Clubbies were watching what was going on, shaking their heads, & (appeared to be) making notes about the frequency with which kiters were entering the flagged area.




I'm a member at North Cott. Was on patrol yesterday morning chatting about kiting when someone started talking about these idiots that came through last Sunday. Apparently the patrol captain took photos of the kiters and sent them to the ranger. Not a lot the ranger could do, but not good if he is getting continuous complaints.

Also, a few weeks back there was a spinal case at North Cott. The guy is now an incomplete quadriplegic (has a little movement in his arms). No waves the day it happened and no one can figure out how he did it. The guy has no memory of it. It is unlikely to be true, but the rumor going around the club is that he was diving out of the way of a kitesurfer. This is a very uncool rumor to be going around, and it has come about because of these idiots kiting through swimming areas.

lostinlondon
VIC, 1159 posts
16 Jan 2012 3:01PM
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Smithy said...

Looks like you guys are much better organized than the rest of us, think I saw a WA post card like that once...

Unfortunately it seems to be the blow ins, whether they be from up the road, interstate or another planet, that have total disregard for local rules be they official or not. The excuse is always the same, "Sorry mate haven't kited here before, didn't know", well open your eyes and ask dip sh...

Hope you get it soughted without loss or injury.


What I don't get is, these rules apply pretty consistently around the world, so ignorance is not really an excuse. You can't kite between the flags anywhere, and we aren't the only country that runs a surf lifesaver system.

If it is a problem at Cott, and the clubbies are just making notes, why aren't they being more proactive, like putting a duck out there and patrolling the zone where kiters are cutting through? I mean cops don't watch speeding drivers go by and just "make a note of it"

dbabicwa
WA, 808 posts
16 Jan 2012 12:39PM
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mbucat said...

Also, a few weeks back there was a spinal case at North Cott. The guy is now an incomplete quadriplegic (has a little movement in his arms). No waves the day it happened and no one can figure out how he did it.

Other side of the story:

Yesterday arvo at Peli Pt one guy was swimming in a wetsuit within the area where the most kite traffic is.

I really didn't see him and after jumped almost landed at him. Had a quick chat after, all good.

But if he dived and resurfaced, what one could do?

Saffer
VIC, 4501 posts
16 Jan 2012 3:40PM
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lostinlondon said...

Smithy said...

Looks like you guys are much better organized than the rest of us, think I saw a WA post card like that once...

Unfortunately it seems to be the blow ins, whether they be from up the road, interstate or another planet, that have total disregard for local rules be they official or not. The excuse is always the same, "Sorry mate haven't kited here before, didn't know", well open your eyes and ask dip sh...

Hope you get it soughted without loss or injury.


What I don't get is, these rules apply pretty consistently around the world, so ignorance is not really an excuse. You can't kite between the flags anywhere, and we aren't the only country that runs a surf lifesaver system.

If it is a problem at Cott, and the clubbies are just making notes, why aren't they being more proactive, like putting a duck out there and patrolling the zone where kiters are cutting through? I mean cops don't watch speeding drivers go by and just "make a note of it"




+1. The guys who call not knowing local rules are pleading ignorance most of the time and do know better. I caught an instructor at St Kilda doing something stupid and he said he didn't know he wasn't allowed to do it which was a load of bull. Caught him back there doing the same thing a couple of days later.

sk1nner
VIC, 181 posts
16 Jan 2012 4:05PM
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Perhaps this is already in action or has been suggested before...

Would it be beneficial to have the WASKA flyers handed out to local lifesaving clubs so they could then in turn be handed to kiters in the wrong? Obviously this would only reach kiters who are on the beach rigging or packing up but might help with getting them out there and send a consistent message.

lostinlondon
VIC, 1159 posts
16 Jan 2012 4:15PM
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Saffer said...

lostinlondon said...

Smithy said...

Looks like you guys are much better organized than the rest of us, think I saw a WA post card like that once...

Unfortunately it seems to be the blow ins, whether they be from up the road, interstate or another planet, that have total disregard for local rules be they official or not. The excuse is always the same, "Sorry mate haven't kited here before, didn't know", well open your eyes and ask dip sh...

Hope you get it soughted without loss or injury.


What I don't get is, these rules apply pretty consistently around the world, so ignorance is not really an excuse. You can't kite between the flags anywhere, and we aren't the only country that runs a surf lifesaver system.

If it is a problem at Cott, and the clubbies are just making notes, why aren't they being more proactive, like putting a duck out there and patrolling the zone where kiters are cutting through? I mean cops don't watch speeding drivers go by and just "make a note of it"




+1. The guys who call not knowing local rules are pleading ignorance most of the time and do know better. I caught an instructor at St Kilda doing something stupid and he said he didn't know he wasn't allowed to do it which was a load of bull. Caught him back there doing the same thing a couple of days later.


Sorry guys, I know a bit off topic but,

Just out of interest, what was he doing? (not asking for a name and shame) If he was doing the wrong thing, perhaps best to go straight to the school - they should be briefing their instructors on local rules and that their conduct needs to be beyond reproach.

At St K, I think the schools need to come down on their instructors, especially if they choose to go for a ride after lessons are over with their instructors tshirts on - if they are doing things incorrectly and are seen by students, past and present, the newbies think that is acceptable behaviour, and the more experienced people associate the school with bad teaching practice. A bit like how ski school instructors aren't allowed to wear their work jackets when riding in their own time.

evlPanda
NSW, 9207 posts
16 Jan 2012 4:40PM
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In Queensland if you surf between the flags the lifesavers can confiscate your board.

Saffer
VIC, 4501 posts
16 Jan 2012 5:24PM
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lostinlondon said...

Saffer said...

lostinlondon said...

Smithy said...

Looks like you guys are much better organized than the rest of us, think I saw a WA post card like that once...

Unfortunately it seems to be the blow ins, whether they be from up the road, interstate or another planet, that have total disregard for local rules be they official or not. The excuse is always the same, "Sorry mate haven't kited here before, didn't know", well open your eyes and ask dip sh...

Hope you get it soughted without loss or injury.


What I don't get is, these rules apply pretty consistently around the world, so ignorance is not really an excuse. You can't kite between the flags anywhere, and we aren't the only country that runs a surf lifesaver system.

If it is a problem at Cott, and the clubbies are just making notes, why aren't they being more proactive, like putting a duck out there and patrolling the zone where kiters are cutting through? I mean cops don't watch speeding drivers go by and just "make a note of it"




+1. The guys who call not knowing local rules are pleading ignorance most of the time and do know better. I caught an instructor at St Kilda doing something stupid and he said he didn't know he wasn't allowed to do it which was a load of bull. Caught him back there doing the same thing a couple of days later.


Sorry guys, I know a bit off topic but,

Just out of interest, what was he doing? (not asking for a name and shame) If he was doing the wrong thing, perhaps best to go straight to the school - they should be briefing their instructors on local rules and that their conduct needs to be beyond reproach.

At St K, I think the schools need to come down on their instructors, especially if they choose to go for a ride after lessons are over with their instructors tshirts on - if they are doing things incorrectly and are seen by students, past and present, the newbies think that is acceptable behaviour, and the more experienced people associate the school with bad teaching practice. A bit like how ski school instructors aren't allowed to wear their work jackets when riding in their own time.


I won't name the school. I spoke to someone more senior in the school after the incident and he said he would brief all their instructors if they didn't know. I haven't seen any instructor from any school doing the same thing wrong since then so its an issue thats been resolved.

He was kiting above the pylon (i.e. between the pylon and the pier) in the water near the boat ramp. There were strict instructions from the yacht club who were threatening to have kiting banned in that area if kiters weren't complying with this rule.

BennyB12
QLD, 918 posts
16 Jan 2012 4:37PM
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so it really is that **** in wa eh? no point in having all the wind if ya got no place to use it...



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"We are our own worst enemy...." started by Juddy