Forums > Kitesurfing General

Unlicensed Instructors

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Created by Idiot > 9 months ago, 9 Nov 2009
kiter789
NSW, 238 posts
11 Nov 2009 1:58PM
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waxman said...

I would only recomend a iko instructor and they must have insurance. With these two things if anything happens the person being taught and anyone else that gets in the way is covered and no legal action will be taken against local councils and they will have no reason to close down our beaches.




Sadly wrong. Can't contract out of negligence. (it's the tastiest tort).

goofy foot
42 posts
11 Nov 2009 9:59PM
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Chris33 said...

fair point (idiot) but I think, that sadly, we're doomed because, as things stand with councils, one moron F*&^ks up and we're all banned (unlike fishos - eg jetty shark fishing, see it all the time).
After 10 years I've seen a lot from beginners with no idea to big headed wankers whose compulsion to show off means they trick it up at waters edge and invariably smash down the kite near beach walkers (know of one experienced guy who got punched out for refusing to heed requests to stop reckless trickery near kids and families). My local beach has been banned courtesy of a few morons.

I thought of a two tier disc system - beginner and experienced?
Beginners are limited to certain beaches where they can't do too much harm.
Experienced have access to more beaches. Won't stop the experienced wanker but as a group we can 'have a word' to them.
Our local association makes the grading (pretty easy, fulfil a few simple tests, learner books a review from a list of volunteers, I'd do it, learner is required to turn up to where I say, so not greatly inconvenient)
We could include a gear test? - eg if the lines are frayed and dangerous we don't pass them (remember when a goose with an old kite had his line break and knocked out a beach user). Well maintained gear is critical.
Not real hard to police - coloured discs?
Would impress councils.
Also helps learners - gives them a set of basic goals.






You should learn this famous quote and say it out loud every time you have some Nanny State fantasy's

"They that can give up liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety". Benjamin Franklin

kitethrills
QLD, 185 posts
7 Dec 2009 12:33AM
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Tell your council to do something about it. the sport is tens + years old in this country. Most councils should have commercial operators with permits / standards / qualifications / experience. They should protect that from cowboys for their own benefit.

As far as mates teaching mates... its a free world. Stupid is as Stupid does. If its a serious problem, then the majority will frown on it and it will be less common.

shannon8888
NSW, 517 posts
7 Dec 2009 11:26AM
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gruezi said...

Learn to fly a kite.

Learn to body drag.

Learn to use your safety.

Learn to re-launch.

Learn to ride an object.

spot on had one lesson in hind sight could have done with 2 or 3 more [cheap skate] would have progressed a lot faster with them and maybe saved tearing knee out of wetsuit . safety safety safety no one wants to get hurt or hurt others . bite the bullet and get lessons is a lot cheaper in long run in smashed gear and broken body parts .

loverboy
WA, 614 posts
7 Dec 2009 10:39AM
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Chris33 is a vald and respected member of the adelaide kiting community. How about you Goofy foot ? the response you made to his idea is what is wrong with these forums- it is a place to discuss not ridicule.

At the end of the day we can't stop people wanting to learn and try the sport - it is visually exciting and very in your face if you are down the beach. We can encourage people to get lessons and learn in safe places.

It is a common occurence at one of the busiest beaches in SA to have a learner body dragging through the kiters around swimmers and crashing their kite on the beach, this is a perceived risk but it is also the more experienced riders crashing their kites on the beach which causes a negative perception of us.....

Kitehard
WA, 2782 posts
Site Sponsor
7 Dec 2009 11:04AM
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Hi guys,

Unfortunately, there is no Kitesurfing Instructor "license". We have a certification of a standard internationally recognized teaching system (IKO) but this is far from perfect.

Most if not all councils require people conducting a commercial activity (exchange of money for goods or services) to have a permit to use public lands and or waterways.

Many schools/instructors do not have this license to trade in a public space which means they are carrying out commercial activity in contravention to the law and often without adequate insurances. If there is an accident, the lawyers will not sue the instructor because they probably have nothing, but will sue the council for allowing the activity to take place in the first place. Then we have a problem.

Some councils seem happy enough to turn a blind eye to this sort of thing but it is still a matter of concern to them. It's just easier to ignore it and hope it goes away, or perhaps having someone teaching is better than noobs trying to work it out for themselves in public. Either way, it's not real good.

Mates teaching mates? This is OK so long as it isn't crowded at the beach, the person instructing looks at it from a perspective of protecting the sport and looking after their mates best interest (their well being). All safety and self rescue must be covered properly, however, most "mates" just try and get their buddy up and riding as fast as possible so they can get on the water too. This requires skipping a few basic and essential practices (ie the stuff they really need to know).

We see this regularly at our beach and the result is a pretty loose unit usually who wreaks havoc on the beach and on the water and can't be told better by anyone. The other issue is people coming down the beach with really old "C" kites and teaching themselves, this usually is a couple of boguns with plenty of tuff stickers, and their mates who bought their gear for $200 from the quokka or who bought it hot, and have brought down a bunch of beers/Jim beam cans to enjoy the show. We even had a few guys who didn't have a pump and so inflated the kite by mouth/lung power and caned themselves up and down the beach for an hour. We let these guys go as the beach was empty and it was really windy they couldn't launch the kite properly and figured they'd give up soon enough (which they did, and haven't been seen since). They walk away muttering something about stupid gay sport and we never see them again (thankfully).

Unfortunately there are certain personality types who cannot be told and must work it out for themselves, their pride usually turns them aggressive when confronted. I tried to offer help to a couple of guys who were trying to launch a 2003 Cab CO2 which they had added a 5th line to. It had way too much 5th line tension, too much back line tension and the front lines were loose. Funny enough they couldn't get it to launch. When I offered tuning advice, I was told it was "an old kite" and it was tuned fine that the problem was a tangled line. I tried explaining the problem with the rigging but was ignored and told they knew what they were doing. Fine!

We (all responsible kiters), are the protectors of our own sport and beach access. It is up to us to make sure safe practices happen. Do the right thing and get involved to protect your access. This may be pointing the hapless learner in the direction of a good school, or it might mean giving them a few pointers if the location allows it, or it might mean intervening in a situation where a learner is about to launch a 14m "C" kite under inflated, in 25 knots.

We are ALL the protectors of our sport. Ignorance, apathy and ambivalence will fuel problems in the future of our sport.

It really is up to you!

superlizard
VIC, 702 posts
7 Dec 2009 2:43PM
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i actually think, that the only way to protect this sport is for all responsible kiters (who actually care), is to work on getting a compulsary licensing system. Like for jetskis (down here in Vic). In the end, you can intervene, and give advise to noobs, but they still have freedom to ignore you. Last night a noob was teaching a noob, and whilst packing my gear, i saw a .... kite flying over the road into the vacant block of land getting stopped on a fence (barely missing the powerlines)... yes, it was Altona again. I helped the guys get down the kite, and told them they should get lessons (if they didn't), etc etc.... the guy forgot to attach his safety leash, and released the kite (probably during failed landing or something)... the point of all this is, that we can't minimise this behaviour without some enforced regulations. A cumpolsary lincese would surely filter out some. Getting a kiting license should not be easy either, it should be made difficult to ensure that people are properly trained, before using dangerous gear, endangering public, and contributing to ever increasing bans... Imagine what would happen on the roads if we didn't require license... I realise that enforcing something like this would not be a simple task... but if the marine police can do it to jetskis, then they could do it for kitesurfing too, especially as there are more kitesurfers on the water than jetskis...

it's simple... get qualified before you dick around with dangerous gear...

the thing is , there are split opinons about this, and it's not the first time it's been said... but something needs to be done...

Era
WA, 86 posts
7 Dec 2009 12:46PM
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Trial and era works best, I sold a C kite 14 best as i recall a while back to a young guy in SA,(told him he should get atleast one lesson) he didnt want to fork out for it, he also didnt want to fork out for a board so he made one, he didnt want to fork out for a harness so he used a belt.......that was untill he got picked up and dumped on some rocks 25 stitches later he forked out

Nothing wrong with teaching your mates your just have to be "competant" yourself and away from other kite users. Thats my 2 cents

happy1
WA, 45 posts
8 Dec 2009 6:37AM
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You can't stop it and in most cases why would you?
sure there will be idiots teaching idiots happens in every sport and even on the roads
Im not IKo and don't want to be and reckon my lessons are as good or better than most of the "IKO" money rapers ive seen.

Paul

j murray
SA, 947 posts
8 Dec 2009 9:23AM
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This thread has an easy answer, from a non kiter.
It seems it is similar to learning about sex,
take it steady, one step at a time, listen to your mates,
do your own thing, with consideration to your ability.
Above all, learn in an area where there are not too many others [}:)][}:)]

Aorta
VIC, 244 posts
8 Dec 2009 10:08AM
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j murray said...

This thread has an easy answer, from a non kiter.
It seems it is similar to learning about sex,
take it steady, one step at a time, listen to your mates,
do your own thing, with consideration to your ability.
Above all, learn in an area where there are not too many others [}:)][}:)]


you forgot to mention, don't let anything get up your arse

madsailor
QLD, 71 posts
8 Dec 2009 11:48AM
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I came across a guy yesterday. His mate had apparently lent him an old kite setup to learn on, at the beach ! by himself !!!
Please don't do this, unless your going to supervise.



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"Unlicensed Instructors" started by Idiot