http://www.stirling.wa.gov.au/Home/Development/Projects/Scarborough+Beach+Urban+Design+Master+Plan.htm
The PDFs are huge (30 - 50MB), but there is talk about whether the Brighton to contacio stretch should be "cleaned up" from some sports. Kitesurfing seems to be one of those...
Document #1
Page 96: Trigg side - Surf Park
The most northern part of the Surf Park will include facilities specifically for surfers including kite and wind surfers. Amenities will include a toilet and change room with a space for dry storage, provision for a kiosk, a surf craft wash down area and adequate space to rig up equipment. Oversized car bays that adjoin a large flat grass area will be provided for surfing, kite surfing, windsurfing equipment hire vendors.
Page 97 - southern side of scarb' beach (Brighton beach side)
"5.1.6_Family Beach and Park
The southern parkland has a family focus"
silent on kitesurfing, but it is implied that this could become an exclusion zone.
Page 35 Family Beach: Make beach more family friendly
Encouraging kite and wind surfers to use northern beach;
My opinion only.
IMHO this plan is better considered than the Joondalup fiasco approach.
The improvements to normal day to day users sounds great. should keep in context that the Kitesurfing component is a very small part of a much bigger pla; Residents will be weighing in on those other topics more heavily than what I our primary area of concern (e.g. should the SLSC stay where it is).
To be honest, there has been some significant pain with kitesurfers (mostly non-local, but we have our local heros challengers too) repeatedly kiting through swimmers and SLSC nippers in front of the surf clubl The "encourage" kitesurfers to move North (and South of Brighton appears ok too) seems to be a well considered sentence.
I did not [personally] see this as a very threatening proposal, but suspect WAKSA representation would be a good thing... if anything, the southern "border" should move north to the Brighton beach access strip as this stretch is only populated by beach goers in the ultra peak of summer.
Noice one Granny.
Good attitude too. Rather than going for the tin foil hats look at it with some balance and it doesn't seem all doom n gloom.
Personally I don't usually do the scarb-trigg stretch as 1/2 of it is way too crowded with punters (not that it stops some of the more 'challenging' 
kiters out there from whipping in and out of the startled swimmers/kids [}:)]
). The trigg craparka are a bit more prone to uninvited car entrants too. I know there are some folks who love that stretch tho.
Speaking a little selfishly as long most of the run from Cott - Sth Scarbs (Brighton) is left to kiters (and poleys) then that would be a good outcome for most kiters and importantly most swimmers/kids.
The exceptions would be to definately stay out of the 100m stretch of kiddies beach in front of Floreat surf club, and also to show some graciousness (and less selfishness) on the 100m where 80% of dog owners congregate within the 2kms of dog area. As long as we don't act like selfish pr!cks then the above two exceptions should be self-policed pretty easily.
EDIT: This looks like a job for Super.. er.. the Scarbs kiters mob. Will forward asap. Pretty sure some WAKSA folks kite the area a lot and will be tres interested. All good. 
Im not sure why all these rules need to be made.
The council needs to be aware that the beaches are only in "conflict" for 3 months of the year.
There are minimal beach goers in Autum / Winter / Spring, there are however people kiting the year round.
No one kites on the perfect beach going day, theres no wind! Even in the middle of summer the most kites are out when no one is on the beach as sand in the eyes is not a good time.
Stirling employs beach inspectors who can and do pull people up if they are lacking in commom courtersy / sense. That should be enough.
Why do all these people in councils need to make themselves feel big and important by inflicting rules and regulations on people who are just trying to live their lives?
Hey Corey, I guess it keeps them in a job and unfortunately its a sign of the times.
However, we can take part in the public consultation and forward all concerns and disagreements to the Stirling council. If one lives in the Stirling area they will take more notice, not ideal, but a fact.
I havent read the documents in entirety (yet) but have been following this for some time. There are certainly some items I dont agree with and will be making comment by the due date 13 September. One item, not concerned with kiting, Im against is the water park - in these times of water shortages/restrictions just doesnt seem appropriate. Another concern is "family/kids zone" in the brighton area - this may well conflict with kiting at scarbs as we know it now. One to keep an eye on.
Overall from what I have seen in the plans I am "generally" happy with the master plan. Scarbs certainly needs a facelift.
I believe the plan is for development over a 10yr period and if we consider how fast the original 2005 plan has been implemented it could be some time before we see the first dirt turned. I agree it would be prudent that WAKSA and Scarb Kiters get involved.
If you are interested in this one then contact WAKSA. There is already an active user group for Scarbs up and running. Keen to act and keen to gather member nos.
An email to WAKSA will get you the contact details.
hi corey
if u sat on the beach any given summers day and see the stupid **** that some kiters do then u would see the need
personally i hate all this regulation crapola but the kiting community brings it on its self i hate to say
i'm a keen kiter but also take my kids to the beach for a body bash from time to time and some of the stuff has to be seen to be believed eg kiting thru the crowd at main city beach, floreat slc etc etc
plenty of peoples on the beach even when the winds hooting, always think that will be no one there but never ceases to amaze how many lie there sea breeze or no seabreeze
Dunno why i have been red-thumbed?
Reading my post I don't wanna sound like - "Yeh lets go ahead and ban the contacio strip" Obviously consultation and a lack of bans in the non-flagged areas would be the go.
Late last year efforts by the Scarbs area kiters group etc were getting things on track as far as awareness of no-go zones, and self policing was helping too.
Council need to be made aware of the positive moves already in place for happy beach usage for all punters/kids/dogs/kiters/tony abbot wanabe sluggo lovers.
Also an involvement from the start of the process by the scabs area and WAKSA groups would be ideal.
EDIT:
For my 2c there should be no kiting - in summer - within 100m of shore from at least 50m south of the Brighton carpark beach walkway (were the kiosk/showers are) until Manning street, then kite on as ya like, until the beginning most south Trigg carpark (#2?).
This seems a no-brainer as anyone with common sense can see the number of punters/surfer/kids/ brown leather tanners, in those small but crowded zones, and know the odds of serious trouble/bad press from a normally minor stuff up in the waves etc can lead to near misses or injuries, and mean BIG dramas.
[}:)]
[}:)]
That still leaves at least 50% of the run from Brighton to Trigg free for kiting and honestly on a busy day - why would you want to go into the area between Brighton and Manning st? Removal of kiting in those areas could save a fair few nasty incidents and bad press that could lead to far more invasive/restricting bans.
Yeh Kiting further south of Brighton isnt a bad call for summer allot less kites going through the swimming area etc...I have cringed on several occasions down there its just to easy for something to really go wrong and then we are all wankers. Otherwise they should move the flags further North to allow some room.
Generally Im not for any exclusions zones but fair enough having a peak summer exclusion zone through the main scarbs area. As others have pointed, in some cases there is a need for one.
If so, I personally think it would be more practical to have the END of the brighton zone AT the brighton walkway where the kiosk/carpark/showers are - a clear geographic, easy to see divider. Plus have all the advantages for kiters of the carpark, showers and grassed area to pump up, pack up etc right there.
WAKSA/Scarb Kiters should lobby the clubbies to have there flags to the north of this walkway - ideally out front of the surf club or just south.
Then as kiters and other beach goers use that particular path you either break left (south) being a kiter, or right (north) for other beach users, simple. If it came to it there could even be sign as you hit the beach demarkating this boundary. All the other paths at this brighton carpark are to the north of this path as well.
Agree contacio or the most northern scarbs carpark to beach path should be the northern end of a peak summer exclusion zone if required. Again a simple geographic, easy to see location.
Most of these Beach users plan are heavily subject to pressure from special interest groups and kiters need to make their interests known through there WAKSA scarborough group.
Get funky's plan of restricting kiting in summer to South of Brighton and north of manning ignores the fact that the best waves are mainly to the north of Brighton and the proposed restrictionsa would apply to some of the best areas, depending on the banks but generally very true late in the season. Trigg is OK but gets a lot of surfers and downwind current, and tends to close out on biggers days. Contacios can be pretty good but access is harder which is why it attracts few swimmers and surfers. Certainly in the past few summers i have been avoiding Brighton at the weekends and using that long empty stretch between Triggs and Contacios.
The Windsurfers twigged Brightons waves years ago, hence why they have 'cornered the market' for the area with the biggest waves in front of the surf club, and sadly continue to try and protect their long established monopoly of this area through intimidation and threats of, and sometimes actual, violence, both verbal and physical.
It would be in the best interests of both groups too co-ordinate their efforts in terms of continuing beach access especially as the windsurfers zone is in greater conflict with the activities of the surf club [training most summer evenings] which you can be sure will be the most vocal and organised group to represent themselves to Stirling council. The swimmers that interact with Kiters at Brighton are not there because of the nice peak with lefts and rights, something that would vbe completely lost on them, but because of the easy access, parking, showers and other facilities. It would indeed be a case of 'The Dog in The Manger' were they granted exclusive access to this zone in the summer.
What would be very useful would be an explicit sign advising swimmers that they are not always visible to Kiters / surfers / windsurfres / surf-skiiers especially when diving under waves [funny that] and it pays for both parties to be wary. Similarly plonking your towel down and stripping off for a tanning session in the midst of a bunch of guys pumping up and rigging your kites is not a good idea [unless your a hot chick of course when it seems that none except the girl kiters complain!- funny that too]
Er.. Niall I was actually saying the kite-go zone should be ok from Manning St to the South trigg carpark so that section would still be fine.
Basically, coming from south on a downwinder etc you would stear +100m offshore around Brighton and Scarbs (in front of the Radison etc) and be able to head back into the shallows at Manning St (end of the shops) to resume the whitewater fun up until the Trigg (Sth) carpark. Not that big a detour but will avoid 80-90% of punters/grief and still get some fun banks.
My reasoning behind 50m south of the Brighton footpath is - depite most guys doing the righty - I see experienced kiters landing and launching their kites right in the mouth of the exit/entry (and I mean right there - not a bit either side) so that punters - who may or may not know diddly about the dangers of kite lines etc - have to stand there and wait for some time for the kiters impeding all other users access to do their own special thing, before the punters can make a decision about where they go.
Dangerous and unnecesary when there is oodles of space 20-30m south.
EDIT:
As far as the poleys area goes. Good luck to em I say. They have been there longer, are less danger generally, and I'd say it is kiters who have corralled them along the coast into that small 'ptotected' zone.
It might be a decent spot for waves but banks move, and lets remember, we are not talking world class waves by ANY stretch of the imagination here.
As it stands kites pretty much dominate 90% of the coast so if poleys want to congregate at a few choice spots such as Brighton and Dutchies etc then we should be gracious enough not to go hacking through their runs ad hoc. It is us who have much more freedom of movement and are consuming far, far more common space.
Agree on the signage BTW.
Get funky, I did not misunderstand but my post was not clear so i have edited it up quite a bit. I do not diagree with most of what you say but I am very loathe to agrre with a ban on kites across a broad area of the beach.
I think we should try and preserve access at Brighton. As Corey says conflicts arise mainly arise on hot weekend summer days when the winds are sub 20kts. On the best days the kiters and the windsufers are just about the only people on the beach. A blanket ban would see kiters banned from empty beaches .
As a lifelong windsurfer i can definitely say that we have not, as you have suggested, 'coralled them' in front of the surfclub. As windsurfers we stuck in that spot since long before kites were invented and the reason is the quality of the wave. It may not be world class but along that stretch there are subtle but important differences in wave quality. Windsurfers definitely deserve both respect and space but in situations when I am just trying to get back out having ended my run where they start theirs, and I am attempting to avoid them, but then have got some idiot trying deliberately to run me down, I think that is unacceptable. It is unfortunate that the 'kite zone' is upwind of the 'windsurf zone' as tend to go alot further downwind on our rides. We all need to learn to 'Live and let live'.
I agree completely with what you say too,that as beach users we do occupy a hell of alot of space and here is list of our most socially objectionable behaviours and i'm not saying I am not the guilty party in some of these, some are pretty much unavoidable:
- launching and landing upwind on beach users
- walking upwind when the wind drops with kite and lines across the general beach users
- leashless strapless boards coming off all the time and popping around freely and clobbering swimmers in the white water
- kites going down in the surf and causing panic across broad swathes of the beach
- downwinder riders cutting straight through windsurfers + surf lifesaving contests + flagged areas
- people walking up beach access paths with inflated kites or worse still hooked in
If i was a non kiter I'd definitely dislike kites. We accept danger to ourselves in our sport as a part of the deal, but is important not to expose the non participating public to it.
As kite numbers increase this issue is going to get worse. It is time for kiters to agree on and observe higher standards of behaviour or have them imposed.
Yeh - bans can become contagious.
I was thinking more along the lines of preparing an argument that we are prepared to self police a scenario where we exclude ourselves from those areas. That bway there is not officially a ban (that can be added to later on) and bonus there will be far less ugly incidents that would likely lead to bans.
Having said all that I am pretty surprised that an official ban on the scarb beach and/or Brighton section has not been seriously put forth by council/clubbos/punter groups etc years ago. The potential for trouble is always there with the numbers of kiters AND punters in a small area from an otherwise large section of coast.
Maybe it shows that kiters have been behaving (mostly) after all?
Niall - I am totally with you on the non-kiter's perspective. If I didn't kite I'd be fairly convinced the average (not all mind you, but significant numbers) was a selfish twaat with no consideration, whatsoever, for anybody else's safety or desire to visit the coast.
As a kiter I know that attitude is out there, and not in short supply, however most folks provided with a bit of education, signage - and yes, maybe even a less than gentle nudge - will do the right thing.
The way some people are talking, Im sure they would be surprised to hear that many tourists come to watch the kites at Scarborough.
Im sure the council is aware of the money travelling kiters bring to the area. You all see the Euros here over summer. They come from the other side of the world to kite / holiday here.
The council would be much better off promoting the area more, than bringing in bans. If there was an area marked for kiting like south of the Brighton path, may be that would stop all the swimmers using that area and stop the conflict.
Doubt it as it is the swimmers who feel they should have free rein over the area. As we need to show common sense in not running people over, swimmers should be encouraged to show some too and not swim where they see a heap of kiters.
How about a no swimming rule south of Brighton and another one north of Contacios, that will fix the problem.
How about the beach police come down and make sure people only swim between the flags, that will fix it too.
No matter how many rules and bans are in place, there will always be people that break them.
You keep on talking like everyone who kites goes through the swimming flags everytime they kite. It isnt like that at all. I would like to think most people do the right thing already. Everyone I kite with gives the crowded spots a wide berth.
Its funny how the council try to do all these great things when they cant even work their last great plan - to "clean up" the Scarborough - Brighton beach precinct, Maybe we should be asking the council how that is all going?? before they move onto bigger things?
Remember the no drinking no yobs etc - go down there on any given warm Saturday or Sunday and count the great Australian Yobs making a PR%ick of themselves leaving their crap everywhere and drinking in public as the sighns say is prohibited glass everywhere its a disgrace
I cant stand local government they are IMO full of SH#T - just go to a council meeting and listen to the calibre of conversation from the monkeys running the show - the taunting and the cheap shots amongst the members of council, its like listening to a grade 3 primary school playground stoush and unfortunately these are the people who make these decisions that ultimately affect us, we need to get involved its just to dangerous to leave it up to the mostly ill informed
Carl is on the money, but hey the people in Council need new challenges. Dealing with flith and low life is too hard for them, so on they go with making up nice work to do.............typical, and it is a global trend...........lawyers and politicians looking for easy pickings.
To me it is easy........as a local kiter, get involved personally by always setting a good example; one way is to pick up garbage. How hard is this really? You go to your local, hang out, pump up, wait for wind etc.....there is plenty of idle time to do something good, have a smile, launch a kite or just pick up some garbage...........if each one of us locals who cared, behaved like this (and many do), then beach access can become our oyster. We locals define the kiting culture in Perth!
Garbology can even be fun.
get.google.com/albumarchive/pwa/100158763202094001468/WoodiesBay1
picasaweb.google.ch/100158763202094001468/WoodiesBay2#
ok, Im with Niall & Corey on this.
There are some good wave spots that would be a shame to be un-used if excluded from. Yes, the waves are not world class but you dont need them to be as a kiter and the scarbs crew sure have alot of fun on the peaks as they are.
At this stage there isnt a need for ANY exclusion zones and the draft does not propose any. Exclusion zones should be dropped until they are being proposed.
We should focus on keeping access by lobbying (if required) and promoting self regulation as a group, keeping clear of swimmers where present (I think generally we are doing ok at this already) and also as mentioned, education of the general public with signage - it shiits me to tears when alot of effort is made to stear clear of swimmers/surfers (as always), find a nice peak to myself without swimmers and an ignorant couple just rock up, drop towels and swim out kissing n cuddling right where Im kiting. I move away to another spot alone, then another couple rock up and do the same again...If only they knew...
There are dozens of spots from Leighton - Scarbs that are equal for waves. I guess the only diff is the scarbs spot is a tad further out than most?
I have had dealings with the council, over the years as a resident, and they have varied from good to WTF are they thinking.
Agreed on the state of Scarbs 'clean-up' but I don't see the point in coming out swinging and putting the council offside.
Fact is the council seem to be looking at the areas, that have in truth, have been overdue to be looked at for all users and purposes. They don't seem to be focused (at this stage) on the lesser crowded areas (of which there are plenty) so it's not a tragedy.
As long as there is a decent process (and Mullallo would prob be the template for both 'sides' of the equation here) then it doesn't have to be a 'sky is falling' reaction.
Face facts fellas, we have had pretty much free range in this area for a long time and with numbers of kiters increasing annually it has to be examined and a plan (not neccesatrily bans) put into place.
Or continue to allow a 'she'll be right' sort plan and face the eventual 'she wasn't right and now we have a serious case of sh!t hitting the fan with resulting bans'.
Oh - as far as kite/tourist dollars seducing the council. I doubt that. Not a great line of argument to go to coucil with IMHO.
I would also suggest the by far the majority of tourists that use Scarborough beach etc are non kiters who may be put off the holiday destination by the presence of kites in large numbers.
Note that other tourist attracting beaches Mullalloo and Cott already have kite exclusions. Scarbs would get more non kiter touros than Mullaz and probably on a par with Cott.
Also, half of the kiter touros live in vans and wash their plates etc in the showers (that has been happening a lot over the last couple of seasons). Me thinks that is not a big drawcard for the council.
The Hassel Masterplan wants to move surfers and kiters to the north of scarborough but havent given them a reason to go there.
The surf at Scarborough has become increasingly dire since they stabilised all the sand dunes (in the 70's?) for the last scarborough redevelopment - all the sand banks disappeared.
If they constructed mini groynes or artifical banks in the North to stabilise the sand, you would see surfers kiters etc locate there. Easy and cheap to construct. They mimic the natural sand drift process and increase marine habitat. Getting the right users to the right areas will be critical to the Masterplan succeeding. The Masterplan lacks this.
Lads-, dont just b*tch about it on the forums- submit your online comments to http://survey.stirling.wa.gov.au/checkbox/Survey.aspx?s=12e8ad0911154b839e71206378e8bfc2&ForceNew=true
Get onto it!
Hello all!
Just picked this up and have been in email contact with Juddy (WAKSA president) and Ian.
We have a crew of about 65 people and the lobbying power needed already.
What we don't have is the email addresses of about 35 of those above (just Seabreeze id) so please send us your email now to our address provided by PM (to avoid Spam).
And of course, there are the other kiters who may not have joined yet - please PM us now with your email addy.
I've already made contact with the Scarb SLSC guys (friendly, invited us down for social drinks but offer not taken up yet). No reply from Council contacts at Stirling and Cambridge. Juddy is now accessing high level Councillors anyway. I'll drop the other SLSC's another line but we need help in organising / action....please.
Will work closely with WAKSA and update you all.
Shan.
It is ridiculous that people kite in summer at brighton, just meters upwind from the flags where crowds of kids are swimming and playing in the surf. If you watch, you'll see that frequently someone will crash their kite, or lose their board, and drift downwind and through the swimmers. It makes perfect sense to have kiters downwind (North) of the swimming area, then they drift away when things go wrong, and not into the crowd. I don't think bans should be imposed, but maybe signs requesting people not to kite upwind of in the flagged swimming areas would be sensible.
And to say "ban people from swimming in certain areas" get real, this is australia, its the beach, you can't ban people from swimming in the sea! I find it amusing that surfing was banned in Australia not so long ago!
