Hey guys,
Just thought I would raise the issue of Brighton/Scarborough(WA), I know last season there was talk about getting a scarborough beach user group organised. With the approach of Summer and the recent posts I figured it may be time to do something pro-active before **** starts to hit the fan,I hope WAKSA is still happy to help out.
In the past week I have noticed a number of incidents that reflect badly on kiters, both from the public and clubbies point of view. For instance a few days ago, a bloke thought it wise to repeatedly do jumps only 100m or so upwind of the surf club flags, of course the inevitable happened as he crashed his kite and was left being dragged only a few metres behind the surf break, straight through the flags. Today a competent kiter repeatedly kited through swimmers, bodyboards and surfers(some as young as 10), there was some very close calls. He assured me he was completely in control and believed he did not pose a risk, I said I understood that it may be the best break on the beach, but pointed out the risk especially with the light and variable wind, 100m upwind and downwind was clear of swimmers btw.
What I propose is that we do something pro-active, it can be as simple as getting together on a Sunday before the wind comes in for a BBQ and social discussion of how we can improve the situation at Brighton, we can move on from there. Hopefully WAKSA can get involved, it may also be worthwhile getting a representative from the Surf Club to voice their concerns.
There is no need to point the finger, if we could keep this post constructive and heading in a positive direction that would be great.
Regards
Matt
PS If I am out of line I'm sure someone will say so, but personally I believe something needs to be done before action is taken against us.
If it's possible to leave the thread in the general section to get more traffic that would be great, maybe we can move it to WAKSA forum once it starts to head in a positive direction.
Well said Vishy
I saw the same thing happening at Leighton on the w/e with kiters doing turns & transitions where people were swimming
One accident & we will loose beach access
We need to launch & land in one area & keep tricks away from swimmers
When the wind is howling there are less people on the beach
I'm very worried about 15~18 knits when you have the beach crowded with swimmers & kiters about
In order to keep access to all beaches & be able to do down winders along the entire coast we have to keep clear
Dont be afraid to point it out to others on the beach
It just makes sense
Getting a clubbie representative would probably go down well. It will give them the impression that the majority of us actually want and try to be safe.
I'm not sure if even getting a member of the council (is it stirling, or cambridge at scarborough?) to come along. Because i would think they will be the ones to allocate a launch/land area.
And i agree with the 15-18knot zone being the most risky. In summer the beach is often still packed then.
Sounds like a good idea Vishy.
Woah, this is a bit of surprise, it's actually on track.
Hopefully we get a heap more input.
What I would like to know is that if I did put together a very informal thing where we can gather and discuss these issues, would people attend, eg. if we made it a Sunday 3pm or so before the wind comes in?
Regards
Matt
I'm in...
Agree on getting a clubby involved.
One of my suggestions would also be to move the "Blue" surf to the left / right of these signs further away from the orange flags too... at least 40m or so each side so kite lines can't crash into the "swimming zone"...
Great initiative...
Hi GranG,
Good point,not sure what affect moving the blue surf signs would have, I thought we already had to be 100m or so away from the yellow flags anyway?
Hopefully this can all be clarified when we get together.
I believe public education would also be a fantastic issue to target this season in the form of a sign etc. So many beach users are scared/unsure/oblivious to kitesurfers, eg. people walking along the beach unsure whether it is safe to walk anywhere near you, people standing right in front of kites hoping to watch you while launch(whereas they are in an unsafe area). I have also seen a bodyboarder paddle out directly infront of the kite launch area at brighton where at least a dozen people were already kiting, these kiters can not be expected to give people like that excessive room, the bodyboarder must of been aware of the situation he was entering.
Regards
Matt
Brighton sometimes packed with surfers even in 20kn+ because of the wind swells. I wonder how those surfers feel about kitesurfers? (until they become kitesurfers themselves 
) It would be interesting to talk to them, and work out something safer.
Beach goers, swimmers, bystanders....I found most of them quite curious about kites. This may give us the opportunity to talk about kites, lines, and what they need to consider for safety. If we are friendly with them they will less likely to see us a nuisance.
Cheers
This is a great idea, especially getting someone from the surf club down to talk about it as well. With the increasing popularity of kiting (and lack of standard training) it's likely that an incident will happen in the crowded summer season.
My two cents is that a lot of kiters are on these forums, but not all (and definitely not travellers who tend to be the problem). I hate excessive signage as much as anyone but one "local rules" sign on the path down to the launch area would go a long way towards educating locals and travellers alike.
All good suggestions.
Yeah, I was thinking about the surfers and swimmers the other day on a downwinder through Flozzer-Brighton in 18ish knots.
Couldn't help but notice surfers getting a pretty raw deal (on the whole stretch, not just in the crowded spots). Kiter after kiter not only came through far too close for any non-kiter to feel comfy (as little as a few metres) but again and again proceeded to throw in a turn right in front - upwind - and give them a nice face full of spray!?! 
One bloke I saw copped it from at least 2 out of the 3 kiters I saw come through at the same time as me. [}:)][}:)]
Imagine choosing a nice isolated break to get away from the stress of crowded Scarbs and copping some of that action? Not cool really.. No surprises that one arvo someone is gonna cop a knuckle sammy I reckon. 
BTW I reckon the kite landing zone should only extend to around 50-100m south of where the kiosk at Brighton is. Yes it is nice to land right where the carpark exit is but there are just waayyy too many punters/kids/surfers (who really have more right to the water than us IMHO as they don't affect the other water users to anywhere near the extent as we do) north of this point there in 18kts. When it is 22+ it is a diff story as nearly all clear out.
This is a really proactive approach, big thumbs up.
I've never kited Scarbs and don't know much about it. However a lady I work with is heavily involved in the surf club there and says that kiters are generally despised, due to how close they often kite to surf club members when doing swim legs. When I expressed surprise (even a bit of doubt) that people would be that inconsiderate, she insisted that it happens frequently enough for kiters to have a pretty bad rap.
Any effort to work with clubbies and encourage responsible kiting can only be a good thing - good luck with your efforts vishy!
I can see why your colleague gets that impression buckwheat, I am thoroughly amazed at the amount of inconsiderate kiting that goes on there.
Love your idea Vishy, I'm in for sure. I'm sure WAKSA are still behind it too, they've already set up a forum dedicated to it: www.hugedomains.com/domain_profile.cfm?d=waksa&e=com
www.hugedomains.com/domain_profile.cfm?d=waksa&e=com , it just looks like it needs someone to get the ball rolling.
Note that WAKSA has also planned a long downwinder for this Sunday and, true to form, the forecast is looking pretty poor. I don't know how this would work with your meeting? Would you want to try and get it happening this weekend? If the firing range is passable (and the downwinder actually happens) it looks like they will be finishing it there at Brighton too.
I would see a good idea, if a couple of guys/girls who know a lot of other kiters in Brigthon get together with a representative of WAKSA, and visit a representative of the Scarb surf club to hear their concerns and what they have to say, and possible work out a win-win arrangement.
The best way of preventing bans is to have surfers and beach goers on our side.
Thanks for all the resoponse guys.
This Sunday may be too early, but if WAKSA is having the downwinder maybe it will be a good time to raise a few issues with the largest group of people possible. So if the downwinder happens maybe when they finish at brighton we could have a discussioon, otherwise it may just be easiest to do it the following Sunday allowing more time to organise the clubbies to come etc.
Regards
Matt
Great seeing you and some of the crew at the beach today Matt. And good on you for seeing the Scabs issues and wanting to do something about them.
Thanks to my dentist who is Nth of the River(why anyone would want to be one is beyond me), I was up and down the coast today and the conditions looked great..prob. near 60 kites out. Wasn't at the river, but I'm sure there would have been 20 there as well....surely woodies was already a line up. How sad for me, first real local SB and I have to go to the dentist....wing wing.
My advice is to engage the local crew first to get buy in from them. Use WAKSA as your point of reference. Next get buy in from the clubbies, they are great water people and really nice from my experience. Come up with some "rules," and then everyone obeys them...enforcement will have to be via crew and clubbies.
Get buy in
Define the "rules"
Stick to them
Try and "police" as a crew, but remember you really can't do anything.
If you need to go to council, at least you can show that you even more passionate about safety and the values on the beach and in the water as they are and are doing something.
Great stuff Matt,
Nick
Hi guys,
Nick, it was great talking to you at Brighton yesterday, I hoe you are back on the water soon.
Buckwheat I think the conflict you mention can most often be avoided, hopefully we can sort this out in the meeting. Although while doing a downwinder last week I was placed in a similar situation and wasn't really given a lot of options. I had just left the south side of city beach to go around the groins during a downwinder, as I was heading out a group of clubbies on paddleboards were heading from the groin out to the south west, blocking my path of travel, I couldn't make it in front of them nor return to the beach as I was nearing the groin. I ended up doing my best to try and stay in one spot until they had past. I managed to cut behind the last paddleboarder, but there were another 2 that had split from the group that I had to pass upwind of. I wasn't happy about the situation, and if I had been able I would of preffered to go back to the beach and wait until they had passed.
Regards
Matt
Sounds like a tough one vishy - I guess its all about communication. Its prolly very easy for clubbies to criticise kiters when they don't appreciate the way we need to move around the water (or bob in the water in my case) and how wind direction etc can limit your options. If your user group gets underway, hopefully there will be more mutual understanding, and less angst caused.
To think of a reference point I'm more familiar with - its kinda like when snowboards first came out - skiers became frustrated when taken out by a boarder doign a backside turn. Then when skiers realised that snowboarders actually have a blind side, they (where possible) started making an effort to pass on the frontside rather than backside. So much safer.
Understanding everyones limitations will lead to team hugs all round (hopefully!)
Great point about understanding each others use of the water buckwheat. If the clubbies understand our "navigational" limitations then this can only make life easier for both parties.
I remember an incident whilst sailing on Sydney Harbour where a Manly ferry skipper chose to set his course immediately upwind of our racing bottom mark. As Manly ferries have right of way over all vessels, he just sounded his horn and continued through our fleet. Carnage for us yachties ensued. If he only understood our course he could have altered his course 50m downwind of our mark and had no problems.
Surely kiters and clubbies can even figure out a way to help each other too.
Kiters are much quicker to a drowning swimmer, that's for sure. And clubbies have access to water craft, so they can save kiters, but need to be taught how I think.
Just brainstorming, not my local.
Hi Vishy
Thanks for your leadership here. Are you in WAKSA? If you are, I'll be bringing my membership money down. Let us know when the 'get together' is as I'd really like to be there. Would be good to meet others who use the local beach for kiting too.
I assume WAKSA has some guidelines on how / what to do at this meeting given their previous experiences? Would hope to have some leadership here, if you need it Vishy
I normally go north Scarbs (Contacios to Trigg). Can we include the stretch from South Brighton (Dog Beach) to Trigg?
Can beach users please post a quick note of support here so Vishy (and all of us)gets an idea of numbers?
Hi Foosh,
Thanks for the positive input, I am not involved with WAKSA but will be contacting them and hopefully we can have a representative from WAKSA there.
At this point I was sort of just after people to throw a few ideas around, once I make a few phone calls etc. I will post details early next week in regards to a set date. At this point I am thinking Sunday 23/11/08 around 3pm before the wind comes in, if this does not suit anybody please say so,
Regards
Matt
Nice thread...
On the weekend there was someone teaching at the northern end of scarborough, which effectively meant a couple of guys body dragging and generally creating havoc as they drifted north thru the surfers, kites and finally into the swimmers at triggs.
Does anyone know who is teaching there? I tried to work it out - whoever it was they stayed up one end and were doing some beachwork whilst their 'students' drifted north.
Didnt think it was the greatest place to be teaching people with the crowd and the generally tricky conditions with the surf etc.....
Ended up almost taking out innocents at 3rd carpark. Was another newby there today in 25knots + on his own body dragging, use it while you can won't be long before a ban. Bit sad really.
Hi guys,
I thought this deserved a bump, I have just sent the SLSC at Scarboro an email asking them to attend so they can voice their opinion and also educate us as to the current rules etc. relating to kiters.
At the moment Sunday 23/11/08 at 3pm at brighton looks like the day, but once I speak to WAKSA and the SLSC I will start a new thread and hopefully people that plan to come will post, might look at putting on a BBQ to entice people
Regards
Matt
Just a thought....maybe it'd be useful to create a page here on Seabreeze where users can get the local knowledge/launch areas/no go zones/etiquette, for each of the various kiting locations. I'd recently considered going to Scarbs for the first time and wondered about all the above details, would be handy to have a quick reference guide.
I'm sure that a majority of the kiting mis-haps and misdemeanors are a result of ignorance and unthinking rather than malice or ill intent, stupidity might be a contender too but we've all been guilty of that at some stage. Great work Vishy for getting the ball rolling here, creating a sense of responsibility and protecting what we have has to be a good thing.
J-P
