Forums > Kitesurfing General

Rules of right of way

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Created by Jacq > 9 months ago, 4 Mar 2008
Jacq
WA, 32 posts
4 Mar 2008 9:07AM
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Just wanting to get some different takes on the rules of right of way out there on the water. I recently watched a IKO beginner dvd as I am learning & was trying to get all the help I could get with my water starts, turns & edging. That dvd states a whole different set of right of way rules to what is standard here....so what do you think the right of way rules are??

Knickers
WA, 257 posts
4 Mar 2008 10:57AM
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It is confusing especially if youre a non boater like me. WAKSA website has the best summary I have read of rights of way.
The nitty gritty- starboard tack (Right hand forward on heel edge) rider has right of way, upwind rider has right of way, faster rider must give right of way to slower rider, and kiters give way to all non-kiters (in my experience so far best to give way to all windsurfers too....).
Upwind riders keep kite high, downwind riders keep kite low.
Wave rights of way I havent quite figured out.

Keep it simple in your head as its easy to stuff up if you try to remember too much when youre learning- if your left hand is forward on heel edge, give way, if you are downwind, keep kite low. Basically I give way most of the time if there is any doubt.

Hope this helps!

Nic

Jimmyz
NSW, 446 posts
4 Mar 2008 6:17PM
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Only we dont really give way to powerboats (fast ones)... for obvious reasons.. unless ofcourse it's a ferry or something else really big.

The whole basis of right of way is derived from the more manouverable party having to give way to the more constrained person/craft or whatever. Hence the reason for the upwind/downwind rule as well as the speed rule.

The starboard tack thing however is completely arbitrary, just in order to retain a common order.

It's pretty much common sense, also make sure that on big wave days that you let guys outof the break if they want to get out, you do not have to, however it is polite even if you are on starboard tack... I've had someone play the whole "oh I had right of way" card on me before while I was getn thrashed in the impact zone... its like cutting people off in traffic just for the sake of it...

Otherwise I find the best thing to do is to always signal where you're going, oh and don't tail people too closely unless they know you're there (like if you're doing a downwinder with them for example) because that can make it dangerous when they turn around.

Bigwavedave
QLD, 2057 posts
4 Mar 2008 6:12PM
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In coastal estuaries and bars it is very frustrating to be a boatie when there are many kiters on the water. The law states that power gives way to sail, but when 12 or so kiters are zipping back and forth through a boating channel, it can take ages of idling to find a gap to get through. When the current is fast (like Caloundra) it can be damn dangerous to have to wait for a gap in the kiters to get through. This danger is multiplied in a coastal bar situation. This is the type of situation that caused problems at Noosa.

As a kiter (and a boatie) I find it's easiest to maintain eye contact with the boat skipper, show that you know he's there and wave him through. If every kiter does this then congestion is at a minimum.

Just cos we have the right of way doesn't mean we have to take it.

Jimmyz
NSW, 446 posts
4 Mar 2008 11:49PM
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Yeh actually that is a good point dave. The rules must be flexible, however I guess that boat in that situation was infact more constrained than the kitesurfers, so principle would have them give way

gruezi
WA, 3464 posts
4 Mar 2008 10:58PM
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Give way to your elders.

specimen
WA, 221 posts
5 Mar 2008 1:15AM
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It would be nice if they teach the beginners the rules of engagement. To keep the kite high or low when passing, I'm sick of people when your passing them coming back into the beach decide to shot there kite high as if there freaking out and people walking up the beach with their kite out to the water so you carn't do a trick or turn. Also people need to look when entering the water and watch for other kites and what theirs is doing.
Most of all a bit of kiter edict when someone looks like there going to hold their line and not give way and you do so there are no tangles it would be so nice if the other person gave you a bloody wave to say thanks.
Keep it real.
Cheers

Jacq
WA, 32 posts
5 Mar 2008 10:59AM
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Seems like a hot topic that has caused many occasions of frustration on the water. It probably doesn't help that there seems to be a whole different set of rules for people coming from overseas. Thanks for the input. It is definately one thing that makes me a bit intimidated as a beginner.

Knickers
WA, 257 posts
5 Mar 2008 1:32PM
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Still makes me feel intimidated after almost 2 seasons! Use your common sense, give way if in any doubt unless its clearly not possible, wave and say sorry a lot, and avoid hitting anyone or tangling kites at ALL costs.
Also helps just to be friendly, you can get away with genuine mistakes if you are not a bitch about it.
Oh yeah and yell and gesticulate if someone else stuffs you up, it makes you feel better!

au_rick
WA, 752 posts
5 Mar 2008 1:40PM
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gruezi said...

Give way to your elders.


ahhahahhaaaa,
being mid 40's I'll go with that,...

let us old farts get a good run in, just in case it our last !!!

getfunky
WA, 4485 posts
5 Mar 2008 2:00PM
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Personally I find around 40% in the areas I kite adhere to the starboard tach ethos and around 50% go for the heading out/leaving the break (in a Perth SW this is port tack) philosophy. The remaining 10% don't give a feck and are plain selfish/ignorant.

Most of the time I will give way at my 1st pass for a particular kiter if they look to be not budging. When I am returning on the same tack they were previously on I make it obvious early I am holding my line and expecting the same as they recieved.

Occasionally I have to give a "You can't have both ways sunshine!" holler. Which probably sounds like "Ya cant ... av .. oth.. hine" so they probably think I am comparing them to female anatomy!?! They probably get the message either way

There is simply no straight answer to this question. just be obvious which way you are going and try to give n take as most folks do.

Also try to be flexible with kiters in and around the breaks.

All good really.

Jimmyz
NSW, 446 posts
5 Mar 2008 6:56PM
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Whoever gave my post the thumbs down... I hope you get run over by a powerboat ... afterall... I must be wrong.

hoop
1979 posts
5 Mar 2008 6:37PM
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That was me. You seem to be making it up as you go.

user
WA, 1140 posts
5 Mar 2008 8:20PM
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This old Turkey keeps running around and round like a chook with it's head cut off !

Give way to starbord,give way to right hand forward,give way to kiter going OUT through the break,give way to kiter coming IN on a wave.

Its the same story on international Forums.

Just use some common sense and stay out of each others way!

Its no use charging along convinced that you have right of way,only to run smack bang into someone that either thinks they have right of way ,or,don't have a clue.

The most important rule is,upwind rider keeps kite high,downwind rider keeps kite low.

If you are on a deadset head on collision course,one of you must yield and go downwind. This is decided by either the "pecking" order (I won't yield to riders from a beach a few K's away that come to "our" beach ! ) or,ability. If the oncoming rider seems uncertain,or ,a beginner, be generous and give way. It won't hurt you.
In fact,when they realise what you did,they will respect you for it.

cwamit
WA, 1194 posts
5 Mar 2008 8:36PM
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user said...

This old Turkey keeps running around and round like a chook with it's head cut off !

Give way to starbord,give way to right hand forward,give way to kiter going OUT through the break,give way to kiter coming IN on a wave.

Its the same story on international Forums.

Just use some common sense and stay out of each others way!

Its no use charging along convinced that you have right of way,only to run smack bang into someone that either thinks they have right of way ,or,don't have a clue.

The most important rule is,upwind rider keeps kite high,downwind rider keeps kite low.

If you are on a deadset head on collision course,one of you must yield and go downwind. This is decided by either the "pecking" order (I won't yield to riders from a beach a few K's away that come to "our" beach ! ) or,ability. If the oncoming rider seems uncertain,or ,a beginner, be generous and give way. It won't hurt you.
In fact,when they realise what you did,they will respect you for it.




what they said!

windpig
QLD, 113 posts
5 Mar 2008 10:06PM
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what he said

Jimmyz
NSW, 446 posts
6 Mar 2008 1:26AM
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hoop said...

That was me. You seem to be making it up as you go.


At least point out WHY it seems I'm making it up, otherwise that's a bit hypocritical. So here:

Why do speed boats give way to sailcraft? Why do fast cars give way to slow cars on highways (they move into the right lane and then back into the left, while slow cars dont have to change lanes at all). Why does a plane in the air give way to a plane taking off from the runway? Why do cars give way to trains at level crossings? Why do cars give way to pedestrians?

As you can see, what I was saying does hold true... it's based upon a principle being: the more manouvrable party gives way to the less manouvreable party. UNLESS:

Ofcourse as I did mention there are cases which are purely arbitrary such as starboard tack having right of way just because it sets up an order, which cannot otherwise be established (except as I've heard at one beach where it has been reversed for some other reason... someone will tell me) ... I can give you plenty of correlations for those too if you think I'm making it up.

Also the speedboat comment was said in jest... it also illustrated my point at the same time... sheesh tough crowd.

*added/edit* This principle would also apply to letting people outof the break when they are getting thrown around by the waves. That is why I'm saying it important not just to understand the rules themselves, but also cases in which they are ineffective and should be flexible as some are only arbitrary, others are based upon a reason relating to safety. User pointed out giving way to learners even if they technically don't have the right of way. That is what I'm trying to say is correct judgement, rather than adhering to a rulebook - which in reality does not work for ALL situations, just in most of them.

hoop
1979 posts
5 Mar 2008 11:55PM
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User summed it up pretty well. Your method is fairly open to interpretation.



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"Rules of right of way" started by Jacq