Hey, it's my first post here as I'm just getting into the sport.
I am having major problems trying to launch a Ozone 2m trainer (Inflatable, single strut) with a Cabrinha Quicklink IDS 2012 bar and lines.
I have completed the tuning method on the cabrinha website where you ensure all 4 lines are the same length by tying them off to a carabiner at a fixed point. I did notice that the front centre lines were short and had to extend them by adjusting the knot located after the centreline adjustment strap. Seems fixed.
The launch problem occurs when I tease the steering line to pull the kite up and the launcher lets go, the trainer starts cartwheeling/spiralling down the power window and inevitably comes to an ungraceful finish.
I have had 3 lessons so I know how to launch a kite by placing it 90-100 deg to the wind direction and teasing until it starts to rise into the 12 o' clock position. This thing behaves nothing like the ozone that I did my lessons on.
I get the feeling that the lines are not exerting equal pressure on the kite and so it just goes into a tailspin straight away.
The bar and lines were purchased second hand along with a 2012 Crossbow (13m), which I haven't tried to fly yet considering the problems I'm getting with the trainer.
Is it pilot error, should this setup work fine, or is the Cabrinha bar setup not compatible with the Ozone Uno 2m?
Any advice appreciated :)
Hi Praxis,
Remember that the Cabrinha Bar has a spring and bungee on the front lines and for this reason sometimes the Cabrinha bar doesn't work so well with the Uno. The bungees effectively tighten your front lines giving the Uno max trim even when you don't want it. Can you get your hands on a bar that doesn't have a spring or bungee?
Select to expand quoteKPSS Used said..
Hi Praxis,
Remember that the Cabrinha Bar has a spring and bungee on the front lines and for this reason sometimes the Cabrinha bar doesn't work so well with the Uno. The bungees effectively tighten your front lines giving the Uno max trim even when you don't want it. Can you get your hands on a bar that doesn't have a spring or bungee?
Uh? The spring and bungy are part of the trim system and have no effect on the lines, except what any and all other trim systems do.
To the OP - your bar is trimmed, good work. Now you have to figure out what sort of trim your Uno likes...
You can either mess around with longer pigtails with an assortment of knots in the steering lines, or just give up on the trainer and use your Crossbow in lighter winds. If you're careful, have good clear space (especially downwind), and take it easy, you'll learn just as much.
Thanks, Kamikuza I'll try playing around with the trim. I have actually tried adding a few pigtails on the centerlines with no discernible effect.
I'm wondering if something else is at fault though. The kite goes go into such a savage spiral (think a garbage bag in the wind) however that I'm wondering if there is some type of compatibility issue. Have tried it in 10kts up to 18kts wind, so I know the conditions aren't to blame.
Unfortunately I don't have access to an ozone bar KPSS, but I might head down to dolls point next weekend and see if I can't borrow one from you nice KP guys :)
Feel like such a retard. 3 lessons and can't even launch a damn trainer.
sounds like the kite is too far forward into the wind window when launching. ( This can happen to me on the beach if you get launched by someone in a bit of a rush.)
The kite needs to be "full of wind" before your assistant releases it and you try to raise it. Is your assistant trained in kite surfing??
It's a similar condition to having overly long back (steering) lines or launching in a "wind shadow". ( is your kite in an area of potential turbulence, like behind a small dune? )
essentially it's all the same thing,! ! !
- you've not got your kite powered enough by wind, so it drops away looking for more. By the time it finds it, it has dropped sideways a little and tends to start rolling along. This can lead to a "hot launch" where your kite is now too far down wind and is super dangerous! ( Deadly - no exaggeration! Learn where your release is when you move to full size kite. Some guys launch with one hand on high side of bar and other hand on safety release ).
Your kite launching friend needs to walk to a point where the kite is full of wind and sits comfortably on the beach with no requirement to hold it at all!
This is the perfect launch point. The kite will just sit on the sand and wait for you to direct it slowly upwards.
If you can't find this point then you have overly long rear lines which can be shortened maybe 75mm at a time ie. change knot settings ( you can obviously alternatively lengthen the front lines with small extensions to achieve the same effect )
Really it's all the same reason for a kite to roll, but with many different causes. Work out what's wrong and fix it. You wont need a different bar, you may just have to tune that one. The shop guys should be able to sort this through with you.
Another reason is wind that is too light.
As you can realize, that's the same problem again! Not enough wind in your canopy!!
Don't give up, you'll get it!
I've never flown a 2m kite but almost nothing will launch well in 10 knots of wind
If I'm launchin my 10m in wind that light I will run backwards on launch to help it power up and get in the air.
When it's up at 12 o'clock it's a lot more stable, because the wind is under the entire canopy and not just the wing tip.
You're hardly gonna get smacked by a trainer kite so wait for more appropriate conditions. ( I'm guessing 15 to 20 knots )
Praxis
Another thing that can occur with small kites is if you pull the bar down when you launch the kite can fly backwards down wind spinning bouncing across the ground.
The amount of depower on a 2m kite is a lot less than a 13m.
Select to expand quotegremlin12 said..
Praxis
Another thing that can occur with small kites is if you pull the bar down when you launch the kite can fly backwards down wind spinning bouncing across the ground.
The amount of depower on a 2m kite is a lot less than a 13m.
This. You can can easily overpower the kite and backstall it, unless there's enough wind.
You want to add pigtails to the steering lines - it sounds like it's back-stalling. But it depends what you mean by "teasing"...
Try pulling in a handful of front lines too, and see if that helps.
The Uno is supposed to use the same bar as he other water kites, so unless there's a huge problem, it should work.
Come into the Shop, we'll have a look at it in the park and possibly test fly too if there is wind. There is no reason it shouldn't work with a cab bar, we'll work it out :)
Select to expand quotedaggy said..
sounds like the kite is too far forward into the wind window when launching. ( This can happen to me on the beach if you get launched by someone in a bit of a rush.)
The kite needs to be "full of wind" before your assistant releases it and you try to raise it. Is your assistant trained in kite surfing??
It's a similar condition to having overly long back (steering) lines or launching in a "wind shadow". ( is your kite in an area of potential turbulence, like behind a small dune? )
Tried launching behind a hill on the coast and also on a beach with the same effect. Top edge of the kite catches the wind more and falls backwards resulting in a spiral down through the wind window and then abort.
You are right in that ultimately, it can only be a line length issue that is causing this. The steering lines seem very long compared to the centerlines with them trailing noticeably. It seemed like that was the cause to me, but wasn't sure if there was something else that I was completely oblivious to.Select to expand quotegremlin12 said..
You want to add pigtails to the steering lines - it sounds like it's back-stalling. But it depends what you mean by "teasing"...
Try pulling in a handful of front lines too, and see if that helps.
Ha, I never thought of pulling the centrelines during launch to check the trim and see if the kite stabilizes on launch. I'm assuming this isn't normal launching protocol, but that's a good idea.Select to expand quoteKitepower Australia said..
Come into the Shop, we'll have a look at it in the park and possibly test fly too if there is wind. There is no reason it shouldn't work with a cab bar, we'll work it out :)
Thanks, will drop in when the wind looks good next. So glad to having a friendly bunch of dudes to ask these questions when your a noob. I'll get on the water yet :)
Select to expand quoteKPSS Used said..
Hi Praxis,
Remember that the Cabrinha Bar has a spring and bungee on the front lines and for this reason sometimes the Cabrinha bar doesn't work so well with the Uno. The bungees effectively tighten your front lines giving the Uno max trim even when you don't want it. Can you get your hands on a bar that doesn't have a spring or bungee?
if this is the problem, then put a zip-tie at the top of the spring. short-term solution "only"
Select to expand quotePraxis said..
Hey, it's my first post here as I'm just getting into the sport.
I am having major problems trying to launch a Ozone 2m trainer (Inflatable, single strut) with a Cabrinha Quicklink IDS 2012 bar and lines.
I have completed the tuning method on the cabrinha website where you ensure all 4 lines are the same length by tying them off to a carabiner at a fixed point. I did notice that the front centre lines were short and had to extend them by adjusting the knot located after the centreline adjustment strap. Seems fixed.
The launch problem occurs when I tease the steering line to pull the kite up and the launcher lets go, the trainer starts cartwheeling/spiralling down the power window and inevitably comes to an ungraceful finish.
I have had 3 lessons so I know how to launch a kite by placing it 90-100 deg to the wind direction and teasing until it starts to rise into the 12 o' clock position. This thing behaves nothing like the ozone that I did my lessons on.
I get the feeling that the lines are not exerting equal pressure on the kite and so it just goes into a tailspin straight away.
The bar and lines were purchased second hand along with a 2012 Crossbow (13m), which I haven't tried to fly yet considering the problems I'm getting with the trainer.
Is it pilot error, should this setup work fine, or is the Cabrinha bar setup not compatible with the Ozone Uno 2m?
Any advice appreciated :)
Sounds like your bar should be trimmed right, so thats not the problem. Launching the kite right at the edge of the window is a problem for a small kite like the Uno, but also any kite.
Have your launch assistant hold the kite for a normal launch in the centre of the leading edge from behind the kite, then YOU move (probably upwind) so that the canopy of the kite is full and tight. If the canopy is not full and tight you will have control issue when the launcher lets go. If the kite is pushing forwards in the launchers hands, that means you need to move back in the opposite direction. Its very important that you learn to move and not expect your launch assistant to move the kite into the correct launch position in the wind window.
The kite falling over backwards and cartwheeling sounds like you definitely do not have the kite in the correct position before launch and that the canopy will be fluttering and this means the kite is actually "out" of the wind window - quickest and best remedy is for you to move and make the canopy tight. If you are in the correct position relative to your kite, the launcher can let go of the kite and you should be able to hold the kite right on the edge of the window, stably.
One of the problems about using a normal kite bar on a Uno, is that the depower throw (how far the bar can move along on the black PU centre line on a Cab bar) is too long, if you sheet out too much, the kite will have too much slack on its rear lines and will be hard to control. The Uno is a small kite so it cannot handle the range of movement that bar used for a larger kite has available. You do get used to it pretty quickly though and just naturally don't sheet out so far.
Otherwise drop into a shop like Kitepower if you are in Sydney or Brisbane and they can help you get your head around the issue.
Sigh...
"The Uno ... using the same bar system as on the larger Ozone water kites."
ozonekites.com/products/water-kites/uno
Throw should be comparable, within a few centimeters, and if the Cab bar has Recoil (the spring) then you'll only get more by actively pushing the bar above where Recoil stops it.
