Hi
Just wondering if some of the riders who have flown the 2014 Reo could advise me as to whether it is a good free ride kite as well as a wave kite. I use a twin tip (not ready for a surfboard yet as I still like to boost) in the surf but also like to jump and back roll etc. My riding is probably 60% waves and 40% free ride. My 2013 10m Reo seems underpowered, hoping the extra power of the 2014 will be an improvement. I have read the other Reo topics but want this response to relate to it's free riding ability. Thanks.
I haven't flown the 2013 reo. But have a 2012 and have flown the 2014. 2014 definitely has more grunt that the 2012. But you know what the reo is not the kite you want in 10m size for TT boost and wave ride style. Look at catalyst in the ozone range. I like my 8m 2012 cat but haven't flown the latest ones.
I really did enjoyed the 10m north dice when I demo'd it back to back against the 10m 2014 reo. It ran rings around the reo for riding TT style in the waves. It was way smoother, jumping was so intuitive, looping down the lines was nicer, depowered better, rode waves better. For me it was a night and day difference in performance.
Note 1: The wind when I rode the 10 dice/reo was 22-26 knots. So I was at the top end of the both kites wind ranges. My thought is that the Reo more optimised to work at the lower end of its range. Which makes sense. surfboard riders typically don't want to be real powered. But for a man on a TT you want the kite to work best at the top end of its range.
Note 2: I ride waves 99% of the time with a mutant TT. I boost on the way out and ride waves on the way in. It sounds like our styles are similar.
note 3: Do you really enjoy boosting in the waves? you could go the other way and get yourself a 10m edge! that will boost you to the moon. You can still ride waves on an edge on a TT. Its a lot harder to down the line on an edge. But it is possible. Lots of looping and make sure you keep line tension. Some of the best sessions I have is on my 13m edge in the waves. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOST! on the way out. then land downlooping down the line on the wave face! So much fun.
Thorn go and demo one mate, that's the best way. You won't have power issues with the 2014 incarnation.
I watched Jason from Westoz, boosting big yesterday and doing inverted rolls on his reo, on his SB down our end. And the conditions were less than ideal, onshore and inconsistent wind.
The kite might click with you, it might not. Report back what you find.
Should work alright, but as mentioned maybe the Catalyst would better suit you. Try them out if you can.
60/40 wave/flat split on a TT, yeh plummett and Rowdy are right you better try a catalyst as well man. Good Luck! Let us know what you find.
Now fcktards, red thumb away...
Coming from Rebels the 2014 Reo's give me free ride jumps and double back rolls on surfboard when strapped ,and if your are looking at 60% wave I think the 2014 Reo is the kite but as other posts say demo because you may like Cat for its free ride
Thanks for your replies. I do have 7,9,11m Edges but the lack of drift annoys me. Time for some demos.
Well that changes the ball game. You wont get the same sort of power and jumping ability from a reo or a cat compared to the edge.
So you just need to decide how much drift you want compared to boost and glide ability. You can't do both very well regardless of how much the sponsored riders tell you its possible. The more driftability the kite has the worse jumpability it will have.
You have a direct comparison from edge to reo. They are at both ends of the kiting spectrum. The cat will fit some where in between. cat is closer to reo than it is to edge as far as its flying characteristics is concerned . Cat will be better at jumping than the reo but wont be quite as good drifting. Cats still drift way better than edges though.
Select to expand quotethorn said...
[br]Hi
Just wondering if some of the riders who have flown the 2014 Reo could advise me as to whether it is a good free ride kite as well as a wave kite. I use a twin tip (not ready for a surfboard yet as I still like to boost) in the surf but also like to jump and back roll etc. My riding is probably 60% waves and 40% free ride. My 2013 10m Reo seems underpowered, hoping the extra power of the 2014 will be an improvement. I have read the other Reo topics but want this response to relate to it's free riding ability. Thanks.
Have you tuned the kite the cat and reos can be adjusted to produce more grunt, not rode the latest editions of both but found for me it had to be cranking to get enjoyable as a free ride, GSurf and sail gave me an 8 reo to trial and I didn't have any dramas with boosting, it took a lot more movement compared to the edges to give a comfortable decent, IMHO I'd look elsewhere for free riding , but a reo or cat would improve your flying skills if you want to create power, or step up a size to compensate
Select to expand quotethorn said...
[br]Hi
Just wondering if some of the riders who have flown the 2014 Reo could advise me as to whether it is a good free ride kite as well as a wave kite. I use a twin tip (not ready for a surfboard yet as I still like to boost) in the surf but also like to jump and back roll etc. My riding is probably 60% waves and 40% free ride. My 2013 10m Reo seems underpowered, hoping the extra power of the 2014 will be an improvement. I have read the other Reo topics but want this response to relate to it's free riding ability. Thanks.
You could do what you are looking for with a Reo, but it would take as bit of getting used to, mainly because the light bar pressure and the short depower throw. The Reo's have always depowered quickly its just part of what makes it one of the best wave kites ever. However is does have very good lift, like all the Ozone models and it does jump big, float is less than an Edge, but still good.
I think the Cat is more suited to what you want, it has excellent lift and boosting ability, rips upwind, but will outboost the Reo and has better hang time/float, as well as being pretty good in waves.
The 2014 Reo has better bottom end compared to the previous model, but tops out a little earlier too. I don't understand the criticism of the 2013/12 Reo lack of bottom end (only if its compared to some other kite thats probably physically bigger). They were a bit undersized, similar to the way that some kites were oversized, made no difference to actual performance though as you just needed to use the right size kite for the wind on any given day.
I ve found the reo will boost well of a wave with a surfboard and really good for wave freestyle and crappy boost on a tt .Demo some alrounders kites like the f one bandit , core riot.The dice boosts well on a tt ,but is so slow to turn and doesn't have the rip of the water lift that the Vegas has.
The reo is low aspect and has a fatter canopy in which creates to much drag to boost as well as a higher aspect kite such as the catalyst and the high aspect edge with glider dynamics. I've demo ed a core Xr 9 m and that smacks the pants of my reo 10 m for boost and tt free ride. It's good solid static grunt . The reo is the surfboard riders choice .
Just want to add my own experience and also from observing lots of riders. The short depower throw on the Reo is why people seem to think it will not boost high, IMO. If you let the bar out at all after you send it, you kill the jump on a Reo.
Kites like the Edge and Cat have a longer depower throw and a small amount of bar release by the rider has less effect on a jump. The aspect ratio is not what kills jumping, slow and wide turning arcs are the biggest determining quality of a kite when it comes to being a good jumper or not. This is why big kites cannot get you as high as smaller ones, simply because big kites just cannot be made to turn as reactively as smaller ones. If a designer does try to make a big kite turn quick, then in all kites I've seen or flown like that, the kite does a stally/spinny turn and loses speed and lift in the process, and also does not jump well as a result.
Smaller kites from 13M down jump best, and the sweet size for jumping big is the 7-10 range, as far as all the kites I've ever seen or flown. However smaller kites need much better control from the flyer to go mega big and get really good hang time and glide, there are many great video's on this topic, and in almost all of them you will see the flyer looping the kite overhead and then downlooping to make the landing.
Reo's can jump big, huge in fact, as I've done it myself, but I lacked the skill to loop the kite while high in the air and I found I came down fairly quickly as I also basically sh1t myself and let the bar out slightly!!
The easiest kite for going big and with great hangtime and that also has great freeride as well as wave qualities is the Catalyst.
Seems like the clip is about some of the riding what you aspire to, but Patrick is on C4's...
I'm 90kgs and can get decent height on a reo , from memory it was an 8 around mid 30 knts on the original reo, ramps assisted
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When its 30 knots on an 8 m you can boost big on anything and high aspect kites give you more rip of the water and will boost that extra metre or 3 better. Higher aspect kites such as ruben lentons fuel and his new best extract have thin canopys from the leading edge to the traling edge.This design feature gives less drag.Drag is not what we want when boosting .The reo's conopy is not that fat as something like a wainman , but its definantly fatter through canopy than the c kites that where in the redbull king of air.I have been to numerous big air comps around the world and never seen reo's ,drifters, waves, cabo's ect riping in big air comps. High aspect kites fly like to point higher which is where your kite needs to be when jumping.
Turning speed and good turning arc are definantly important points for good boosting which the reo has, but thats not every thing.A 5 strut design has a much more solid canopy structure and in my experience when I boost on my north vegas and compare it to my reo .The vegas has a rock solid canopy that gives gforce pull off the water where as the reo canopy has tendancy to flutter and just doesnt have the vertical consistant lift.The canopy of the reo doesnt get the right angle of attack upwards as the trailing edge is way more floppy..Canopy flutter is extra drag too.
I think the reo boosts quite well in the hands of a a good rider.but lets face its simple aerodynamics and ruben lenton and the king of the air crew are not racing out to get there wave kites for the next king of the air comp.
You need the bottom end that surfboard gives you when riding a reo and a waveface for a ramp to get the best out of it.
As for free ride kiters on tt 's who like to hit a few waves and boost and not into megaloops then allrounders are definantly the way to go.
Cataylyst, the dice,fone bandit,wainman,core xr,evo,,rebel, park ,rpm and there is another 100 out there.
Select to expand quotediamond2001 said..
When its 30 knots on an 8 m you can boost big on anything and high aspect kites give you more rip of the water and will boost that extra metre or 3 better. Higher aspect kites such as ruben lentons fuel and his new best extract have thin canopys from the leading edge to the traling edge.This design feature gives less drag.Drag is not what we want when boosting .The reo's conopy is not that fat as something like a wainman , but its definantly fatter through canopy than the c kites that where in the redbull king of air.I have been to numerous big air comps around the world and never seen reo's ,drifters, waves, cabo's ect riping in big air comps. High aspect kites fly like to point higher which is where your kite needs to be when jumping.
Turning speed and good turning arc are definantly important points for good boosting which the reo has, but thats not every thing.A 5 strut design has a much more solid canopy structure and in my experience when I boost on my north vegas and compare it to my reo .The vegas has a rock solid canopy that gives gforce pull off the water where as the reo canopy has tendancy to flutter and just doesnt have the vertical consistant lift.The canopy of the reo doesnt get the right angle of attack upwards Totally agree with you on most points and as the trailing edge is way more floppy..Canopy flutter is extra drag too.
I think the reo boosts quite well in the hands of a a good rider.but lets face its simple aerodynamics and ruben lenton and the king of the air crew are not racing out to get there wave kites for the next king of the air comp.
You need the bottom end that surfboard gives you when riding a reo and a waveface for a ramp to get the best out of it.
As for free ride kiters on tt 's who like to hit a few waves and boost and not into megaloops then allrounders are definantly the way to go.
Cataylyst, the dice,fone bandit,wainman,core xr,evo,,rebel, park ,rpm and there is another 100 out there.
Totally agree with you on most points and all the different kite brands and types you've listed as well.
Couple of points though...
People who ride at big air and PKRA style events, tend to be sponsored, they get given kites that suit their discipline. Wave riders never enter big air events, they are out chasing down lumps.
Three strut kite canopies will flutter when the bar is pushed out/depowered and turning, or both on some kites. BUT in jumps if the bar is held in and not let out at all, a Reo not only rips you off the water pretty ferociously but will hold you up quite well too. Let the bar out a bit, and you kill the jump, come down too quick and can get some flutter if you really freak out and let the bar out a lot.
Lift is not dependent on direction, lift is dependent on speed and apparent wind, apparent wind is not direction dependent either, although going downwind requires looping the kite to maintain kite speed and lift and then the rest is up to characteristics of the kite design itself.
You said it, the Reo and boosting requires good pilot skills, and people in general either don't have the skill (often because they just don't get the water time to develop it)
You said it yourself though, the Reo requires a high skill level, and most people just don't get the time on the water to develop it, for this style of kite, and didn't buy a pure wave kite for that crossover riding style.
Ruben did not get given the Best Extract he was the backbone to its design!.
The red bull king of the air had some of the best big air kite designers in the world riding in it!
Lift is also dependant on induced wind created by the kite flyer.
A 5 strut design will also hold the trailing edge tight with less canopy distortion .What this does is keep the the true ,apparent and induced wind pressure very high underneath the kite more effectively . Flutter and the bow formation in between the struts of the canopy has a let down effect of this high pressure.
We want highest pressure with minimal drag underneath the canopy and minimal pressure on the top of the canopy.
The vegas ,fuel,torch,hadlow pro ,best extract all have the 5 strut and high aspect ratio canopies optimised for lift.
They boost better than the ,cabo,the drifter ,the wave and the reo because of there high aspect .
There c shaped kites to so there wing tips help them turn quicker than even the reo.
The allrounder kites are in-between they get the best of both of both worlds .There decent in the waves and decent for boost.
When its 25 knots and gusting 30 to 33 knots and I want a big air free ride sesh with stability cold winter gusts.I will no dought be on my 10 m vegas for a bigger boost sesh.
I have tried the core xr3 9m off a mate in 16 to 18 knots for around 10 minutes with a shinn speedball underneath.Moderate winds ,but showed potential to boost better than the vegas or reo. Hanging to get this kite out for a 30 knot banger!.Awsome static grunt a quick acceleration.
Again it has 5 struts and the canopy is not to fat.
Anyway it would be good to see how the wave kites will go in the next king of the air in the netherlands and cape town.
They will kill it in the KSP with no dought in my mind!
Its just a pitty they don't boost on the way out over the waves!.
Ozone Reo 2014 - freeride NO
Ozone Catalyst 2014 - freeride YES
I don't understand why people want to buy a wave kite to freeride just like I don't understand why designers can't make a wave kite purely for wave riding. Basicaly if you want an easy boosting kite it will then also pull you away from the wave you are trying to ride.
Select to expand quoteTurtleHunter said..
Ozone Reo 2014 - freeride NO
Ozone Catalyst 2014 - freeride YES
I don't understand why people want to buy a wave kite to freeride just like I don't understand why designers can't make a wave kite purely for wave riding. Basicaly if you want an easy boosting kite it will then also pull you away from the wave you are trying to ride.
But I want to have my cake and eat it too!!.....
I want to ride the big waves with a wave kite and i also want to boost off the waves with a high boosting kites....in the same session......
I don't understand why wave riders don't want to boost on the way out after ripping up a good wave?
Well a lot of them do.
Select to expand quoteTurtleHunter said..
Ozone Reo 2014 - freeride NO
Ozone Catalyst 2014 - freeride YES
I don't understand why people want to buy a wave kite to freeride just like I don't understand why designers can't make a wave kite purely for wave riding. Basicaly if you want an easy boosting kite it will then also pull you away from the wave you are trying to ride.
I found the Reo very responsive and direct and a pleasure to throw around, hence it is easy to jump very high. Agree with Kitepower that it is however best to keep the kite busy on the way down, best achieved by looping. Otherwise it flies to far forward into the wind and does not soften the landing too well. I agree sheeting out the bar should be avoided actually most of the time unless when surfing a wave.
The Catalyst however I hated as I did not find it direct and responsive, not dynamic at all. Just another allround kite, doing the job in an ok manner but not being particularly good at anything. Don't understand the hype around that kite. For me this is as crappy as a Rebel. Anyway, personal preference and choice and for every kite out there there is usually a buyer ;-)
gustyas do you prefer the feel of a c kite?
and plummet you can do what you want but you have to admit wave kites allow you to use the power of the wave and stay in the pocket better than free ride kites
Select to expand quoteTurtleHunter said..
gustyas do you prefer the feel of a c kite?
and plummet you can do what you want but you have to admit wave kites allow you to use the power of the wave and stay in the pocket better than free ride kites
Yes that's true I am coming from low bar pressure fast fluying C-(ish) kites which need to be flown do create power hence the Reo fits in nicer. Personal preference really.
^^I thought so I am the same but I can't stand my reos on a twin tip although the 2014 does have more grunt, so have kept my c kites just in case I feel like ever going back there (It's been a few years though so my valves have probably let go and the bindings perished)
Yes I agree. Wave kites allow you into the pocket a lot easier. I also agree I dislikes the 10m 2014 reo on my Mutant TT. Not a nice kite at all to be honest for my style. I was actually quite shocked.
But hey. In the 10m size for boost and wave ride I don't believe a wave kite is the go. That's why I have a split quiver. I start for my big kites at the complete opposite side of the kite spectrum with a 15m speed 3 then 13m edge then a 10m c4 (need to replace that with a Dice) then an 8m cat.
Then when the wind is howling and the waves are house sized I'm into my little 6m reo. For that wind the little reo is perfect. I'm no longer boosting huge and I want to focus on those massive swells. I may one day change my 8 cat out for an 8 Reo. But the cat still drifts pretty well for my style and I do enjoy 30 knot jumps on the cat!
That would be my recommendation for Thorn. don't go reo in the 10m size for TT wave action. use one of the many freeriding kites on the market in 10m size. then think about the reos for 8m and bellow.
^^^^
