Lightwind Wakestyle Kites Big Guys. FLY? CONTRA?

Hi guys,

I'm sure some of you may tear me apart, and say it has been asked before, but I looked and could not find anything relevant.

I have seen a few threads on lightwind kites but mainly 70kg guys asking.

I 6"6 and 102kg and looking for a kite to use in (8-10 knots minimum) up till about 15-17max or as much as the kite can handle. Want to mainly practice unhooked wakestyle, and hopefully kiteloop backrolls and just boosting around..if it's fast enough...

I am tossing up between a 2013 Naish fly 15m or a 2014 Cabrinha Contra 15m. Or potentially a 2013 Slingshot rally14m.

Does anyone know which has better low end? fly or contra?

My current setup is a 139x42 jaime and 2013 9 &12m vegas's

I had the chance to try the contra 15m but had trouble staying upwind, even when powered up? Is that a common issue with lightwind kites? I'm sure it must have been my technique... I had been riding for 8 months at the time. I just seemed to get further and further downwind, where as on my 12, i could have rocketed upwind if it was a few knots more.

If I chose the rally 14m I would probably swap to a 14, 10, 8 setup. Just worried that the rally won't have enough bottom end, I know it would probably be more fun in 12-18 though..

Any experiences or thoughts would be much appreciated

Cheers

Select to expand quote

KPSS Used said..
Elliot here loves the 15m Contra for practicing unhooked in those conditions, I'm sure he will chime in later. 17m for your weight would be ideal.

I found it tough at first to go upwind as well but just had to work on my board technique and how the kite liked to be ridden (bar positioning) then it was fine.

Thanks mate, Yeah I would love a 17m but unfortunately I only have a 15m available to me. Glad to hear it wasn't just me with the upwind issue haha.

Cheers

for what you are asking a 14m or 15m will not get you going unless you have a boat under your feet. At your weight you need a 17m MINIMUM and a biggish board to go with. I'm 72kgs ride a 140 and a 17m zephyr and i still need 12 to 13 knots to get smallish pop. for me about 15 knots is the sweet spot for unhooking on the zephyr. Zephyr isn't as grunts as other light wind kites though. good luck

Select to expand quote

SamT94 said..

Big eeeZeee said..
for what you are asking a 14m or 15m will not get you going unless you have a boat under your feet. At your weight you need a 17m MINIMUM and a biggish board to go with. I'm 72kgs ride a 140 and a 17m zephyr and i still need 12 to 13 knots to get smallish pop. for me about 15 knots is the sweet spot for unhooking on the zephyr. Zephyr isn't as grunts as other light wind kites though. good luck

Thanks for your input. Interesting, I wonder if you live in a very warm area? Where I live it is 10-17 degreesC in winter and 19-26 in summer. At 102 kg and can unhook and pop boost, etc on my 12m vegas in 15-18knots fairly comfortably just sort of powered, maybe a tad underpowered, no less than 15 though....And really lit when its 20-28knots. I use my 9m for anything from 22 if steady-45knots.

It's nothing to do with the air density. It's simply because the force generated by the wind increases exponetionally as the wind speed increase; so you have far more than double the power at 20 knots than you do at 10 knots. I am 95kg and have a 17m Contra riding a 142 cab custom. At 10-12 knots I am mowing the lawn on flat water at best and am powered at 15-18 knots. The climate where I live is identical to yours.

Unfortunately I think your goal is not possible with a 15m contra and current board. Get a 17m and a light wind board like the fly door or cabrihna stylus and you might have a chance. Elliot is one of the best wake style kite boarders in the country and weighs probably 65kg so I wouldn't buy a kite based on what he does with it.

Having said all that I do really like the Contra but heavy weight riders in light winds aren't going to be jumping all that high

All big kites are harder to egg up wind and I found it very difficult at first with contra. It requires a good amount of trim, a high kite and a lot of concentration on board positioning and edging

Select to expand quote

NitrousOxide said..

SamT94 said..

Big eeeZeee said..
for what you are asking a 14m or 15m will not get you going unless you have a boat under your feet. At your weight you need a 17m MINIMUM and a biggish board to go with. I'm 72kgs ride a 140 and a 17m zephyr and i still need 12 to 13 knots to get smallish pop. for me about 15 knots is the sweet spot for unhooking on the zephyr. Zephyr isn't as grunts as other light wind kites though. good luck

Thanks for your input. Interesting, I wonder if you live in a very warm area? Where I live it is 10-17 degreesC in winter and 19-26 in summer. At 102 kg and can unhook and pop boost, etc on my 12m vegas in 15-18knots fairly comfortably just sort of powered, maybe a tad underpowered, no less than 15 though....And really lit when its 20-28knots. I use my 9m for anything from 22 if steady-45knots.

It's nothing to do with the air density. It's simply because the force generated by the wind increases exponetionally as the wind speed increase; so you have far more than double the power at 20 knots than you do at 10 knots. I am 95kg and have a 17m Contra riding a 142 cab custom. At 10-12 knots I am mowing the lawn on flat water at best and am powered at 15-18 knots. The climate where I live is identical to yours.

Unfortunately I think your goal is not possible with a 15m contra and current board. Get a 17m and a light wind board like the fly door or cabrihna stylus and you might have a chance. Elliot is one of the best wake style kite boarders in the country and weighs probably 65kg so I wouldn't buy a kite based on what he does with it.

Having said all that I do really like the Contra but heavy weight riders in light winds aren't going to be jumping all that high

All big kites are harder to egg up wind and I found it very difficult at first with contra. It requires a good amount of trim, a high kite and a lot of concentration on board positioning and edging

Thanks man, really Appreciate the info, Interesting to hear with you being of similar weight.

I think issue with the wind speed may be that I tend to understate. What I call a 10-15 knot sea breeze, others may call 15-18 knots.... I don't use an anemometer, I recently switched but have been a windsurfer since I was 10 (9years) so I just go off what I and the rest of that community all interpret, and what they have taught me over the years. So i guess my stated 8-16 knots is quite possibly more like 12-20 measuring it properly. I remember going out on my 9m vegas thinking it was 25-30ish and a guy on the beach measuring it called it 35-40+...

Either or, Regardless of the numbers, I guess the general consensus seems to be 17m, for the lightest conditions you would bother going out in. I'm sure in what you would call 12-18knots on my board I would be sweet on a 17m.

Sounds like I'll just have to get dialed in to the kite for upwind performance. Thinking back, the light onshore wind and incoming tide probably didn't help haha.

Thanks again mate.

Hi SamT94
I would think that a kite with a more moderate aspect ratio than the Contra or the Zepher would be better for wake style kiting.
I was very impressed with last years Griffin TRX 14m. Fantastic bottom end and great lift for jumps. I haven't flown this years model yet but Christian (kite designer) say this years has betterlow end, it is marketed as a wave kite so it's quick turning speed may not suit some unhooked moves but I think you could slow it down by using a small bar. It also comes in a 17 that might suit your body mass a little better. They really are a good all round fun kite in the large sizes. I also found it easy to go upwind as the leading edge is quite narrow so once up to speed you can push it forward in the window easily unlike kites with a thick leading edge
Also think about demoing
Blade Fat lady
Core GTS3 LW
North Juice

The FLY would be the most powerful of the 3 kites you mentioned. Probably because it is actually a 17m.
Both the FLY and the DICE unhook nicely.

Here is a video Ewan shot a few years ago when it was released

Select to expand quote

WA Surf said..
That Fly has some serious grunt. I was riding it the other day when guys my size were on Zephyr's and I was absolutely nuked.

Definatley worth a try.

The only thing I would worry about with the fly is with it being 2 struts and you being 100kg. I love Naish and have a quiver of Parks but did test the Ride which is also a 2 strut kite. I found it sometimes jellyfished when I flew it really hard and asked it to haul my fat ass out of the water. Try and get a demo to make sure this doesn't happen with the Fly as the bloke in that video looks like he's half my weight at most.

reckon the Core GTS3 LW would be well worth a look too

Select to expand quote

NitrousOxide said..

SamT94 said..

Big eeeZeee said..
for what you are asking a 14m or 15m will not get you going unless you have a boat under your feet. At your weight you need a 17m MINIMUM and a biggish board to go with. I'm 72kgs ride a 140 and a 17m zephyr and i still need 12 to 13 knots to get smallish pop. for me about 15 knots is the sweet spot for unhooking on the zephyr. Zephyr isn't as grunts as other light wind kites though. good luck

Thanks for your input. Interesting, I wonder if you live in a very warm area? Where I live it is 10-17 degreesC in winter and 19-26 in summer. At 102 kg and can unhook and pop boost, etc on my 12m vegas in 15-18knots fairly comfortably just sort of powered, maybe a tad underpowered, no less than 15 though....And really lit when its 20-28knots. I use my 9m for anything from 22 if steady-45knots.

It's nothing to do with the air density. It's simply because the force generated by the wind increases exponetionally as the wind speed increase; so you have far more than double the power at 20 knots than you do at 10 knots. I am 95kg and have a 17m Contra riding a 142 cab custom. At 10-12 knots I am mowing the lawn on flat water at best and am powered at 15-18 knots. The climate where I live is identical to yours.

Unfortunately I think your goal is not possible with a 15m contra and current board. Get a 17m and a light wind board like the fly door or cabrihna stylus and you might have a chance. Elliot is one of the best wake style kite boarders in the country and weighs probably 65kg so I wouldn't buy a kite based on what he does with it.

Having said all that I do really like the Contra but heavy weight riders in light winds aren't going to be jumping all that high

All big kites are harder to egg up wind and I found it very difficult at first with contra. It requires a good amount of trim, a high kite and a lot of concentration on board positioning and edging

Haha thanks very much bro but I weigh 87kgs not 65! I use the Contra 15 from 10-18 knots for unhooked

Select to expand quote

grimlock said..

SamT94 said..
Hi everyone, Thanks a lot for all the comments and advice, really appreciate it, so thanks a million.

I have ended up buying a 2014 Naish FLY as my local shop had a killer deal on one. From what I hear they pull like a truck! maybe not the best upwind, but being bigger i just want that low down grunt to get me going.

As soon as I get a chance to ride it I will post a review of how it went for anyone who is interested.

Cheers

I'm ~100kg depending on the day and beer consumption and ride a 10m TS and 14m Park and have a 17m North Dyno. Anything under 15knots I ride my 17m Dyno on a 152x46 North Spike.

On my 17 at 14-15 knots I can ride my normal TT (135x41), but prefer my Spike as it makes life so much easier having that early planning when then winds are that light.

Looking forward to seeing how your fair on your 139x42. What size Fly did you get?

The Fly is a 15m. It looks like I might be able to get out tomorrow on it, so I will post back how it went. Fingers crossed, I'm sure I will enjoy it.

Cheers

Ok so, for anyone who was interested, I took the fly out for a sesh today.

All I can say is epic! 100kgs 139x42 with boots, and the wind was about 9-14 knots. occasional 15-17 knot gusts here and there.

On my first run I smoked out and went miles downwind hahaha... Stopped....Realized its not my 12m c kite.....Got my board speed up, parked it nice and high REMEMBERED not to oversheet!... Just let it breath and sit forward in the window a bit and get some apparent wind. After that it flew upwind. Just have to resist the urge to work it or park it low. It becomes effortless and second nature after 30mins or so, super easy.

When its 13-18knts and your powered up you can work it/park it wherever you want and go upwind, as long as you can hold your edge.

Heaps of low end grunt, for me at 100kg if its consistently 10-12knots or above... the twintip is totally fine, awesome infact. If its below 10ish or below your definitely a bit underpowered.

The kite just sits and gives you REALLY good pop, it's amazing unhooked. And I was really surprised at how fast it was! it's no 12m but it's not actually too far off, still a hell of a lot of fun.

I'm really pleased I went for a 15m and not a 17m...ok so if its 7-11 knots its not enough, but if you were that desperate you could chuck a light wind board or a surfboard on and go for a cruise. But for wakestyle and twintip, anything consistently 11ish and above is mint. Once you get a bit of apparent wind going you can make it through the 8-10 knot lulls fine.

Overall just a really fun kite and exactly what I was looking for.


That was probably terribly written and in a weird order but I hope that gives you an idea of what it was like.

Last thing I would mention, is the build quality was impressive and the bar is very nice. Also it folds up really easily and fits perfectly in the bag which is nice. Only thing that can be a bitch every now and then is the below bar trim but you get used to it.

If anyone has any questions who is thinking about buying one, I am happy to help

Thanks again for all the advice guys.

Cheers

Sam